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Post by Scott Kimball on May 23, 2012 14:21:21 GMT -5
The population of the wild turkey is affected by several things and one of the more popular thing is predation. My question to you is: Do you think that the coyoteor the Fox Affects the population of wild turkey more.and WHY do you think this.
Scott
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2012 14:39:26 GMT -5
I think that in my area the coyote is more likely to kill more turkeys then fox as there are more yotes then there are fox but the dominant killer to me is the fisher they are turkey killing machines down here and follow the turkeys on the roost at night and kill them while they sleep.
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Post by scott on May 23, 2012 15:19:45 GMT -5
I suspect all the predators enjoy a turkey meal. One thing I do know is that since the turkey population has exploded I have started to see more Bobcat sign than I used to. We do not have the rabbits that we used to but the Turkeys are making up for that in my opinion.
Scott
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Post by flatiron on May 23, 2012 15:21:08 GMT -5
fox and coyotes take a few BUT I reckon the egg eaters and horned owls take way more.
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Post by barrington on May 23, 2012 15:33:58 GMT -5
I think it has more to do with the weather or cycles then predation. Whatever kind of hunting isn't good that season :be it deer,turkey,rabbits,grouse the poor coyote takes the blame. I had the luck to watch a group of coyotes through the summer a few years back and all i can say is they ate more earthworms and some grasshoppers. NO deer were killed by this group in the time they were observerd. I did find where a single yote last week killed 4 red fox pups,none were eaten.
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Post by mikespring on May 23, 2012 16:03:54 GMT -5
Barrington....great post and spot on!
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Trapper Jack
life member nysta,alaska trappers assn,nta, foothill trappers
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Post by Trapper Jack on May 23, 2012 16:34:40 GMT -5
Got to agree somewhat. I, however,have seen 3 different coyotes with young turks and geese in their jaws. Fisher,coon, and marten grab the eggs up here.
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Post by mikespring on May 23, 2012 16:55:03 GMT -5
Ask Zagger what his turkey population is like.....Weather has more to do with turkey pop than any other factor....
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Post by jonathon721 on May 23, 2012 17:32:53 GMT -5
In my area I would blame it more on fisher than coyote. Our fisher population is pretty high as well as our coon population is comeing back around so I think they ate eating alot of the eggs in the nests. Most people ate quick to blame coyotes bit in my area I really don't think our coyote population is as high as alot of people think. I'm seeing more and more fox every year so I know the yote population is down here. The fox are probably eating more of the young birds than the coyotes here.
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Post by barrington on May 23, 2012 18:10:31 GMT -5
Kinda odd ,I walked out back and didn't make it 100 yards and came across a dead turkey,the guts and head and feet are gone the breast and wings are still there. I could get a picture and you could guess what killed it.
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Post by mole on May 23, 2012 18:12:27 GMT -5
Not to mention, Crows, rats, red squirrels, skunks possums, ..
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Post by mikespring on May 23, 2012 18:40:56 GMT -5
Yep mole....Redtailed hawks and coons too...
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Post by walleyed on May 23, 2012 19:12:55 GMT -5
All my College Wildlife Biology Classes preached, and pointed to, Bad Weather Conditions during consecutive nesting seasons as the greatest factor in effecting or determining Wild Turkey populations from year to year.
Long periods of cold, rainy, weather causing both Nest abandonment and increased Nest predation.
The wet, damp, weather holds the Turkey's scent or nest scent closer to the ground and makes it easier for nest raiding predators of ALL species to smell, find, and clean out Turkey nests of their Eggs or Poults .
Prolonged Nasty, wet, weather also causes much higher Poult Mortality due to hypothermia after they have become wet, and soaked in this type of weather.
Coyotes can also cause Lower Turkey Populations but their effect is drop in the bucket when compared with Weather related nesting mortality issues.
walleyed
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Post by barrington on May 23, 2012 19:39:04 GMT -5
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Post by trappermac on May 24, 2012 5:27:09 GMT -5
I agree with Walleyed on the reason for the highest mortailty rate of turkeys, that being wet spring/nesting conditions. After that there are the egg finders/eaters - skunks, possums, coons, fox, crows, ravens, even certain insects attack eggs. Then the poults must face all the four legged predators as well as the avian predators. If they make it to their first autumn they face all of us and then the winter can cause a high mortality rate if they can't get to the food that sustains them or if there are wet freezing condtions. Then spring and they face us again......tough life!..... As far as fox vs coyote for affecting the population I'd say it's probably about even. Cats are probably the most lethal because of their patient stalking method.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2012 5:40:54 GMT -5
I'm not a big turkey hunter, maybe 10 times total in the last 5 years I have actually gone out in the spring......... twice I've called in coyotes while calling turkey..... Just saying
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
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Post by austinp on May 24, 2012 6:00:50 GMT -5
My friends & I commonly call in coyotes when turkey hunting, and this year one friend called in bobcat when we hunted Westfield PA and another friend called in a bobcat on the Fish Creek unit south of Black Lake. No doubt that a wide array of predators pick off adults... but if the nesting season is favorable, turkeys are abundant. especially up north. When I toured the Clayton to Ogdensburg area in March looking for muskrats, I was blown away by the wild turkey numbers all over. Every fourth field had one to several longbeards and assortment of hens & jakes. Same with Ft Drum. Guys I hunt with up north say that Plattsburg is way better yet which I find hard to believe. Seems like they are doing just fine with their rightful place in the food chain out there
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Zagman
#2 Newhouse
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Post by Zagman on May 24, 2012 7:53:30 GMT -5
Mike Spring and Walleyed nailed it.....BY FAR, the biggest limited factor to turkey populations is a cold wet spring/nesting season.
We had two in a row here in NY....and THUS, the reason biologists say our population is down statewide around 40%.
Sure, lots of critters like to eat eggs, poults, and adult turkeys.
But, as far as OVERALL across the board affects, a wet, cold spring is the killer.
Why? Newly hatched turkeys cannot fly up into trees until they are two weeks old. So, when they walk around in wet, cold grass all day and get their downy protection soaked, they freeze to death later at night when the temps really drop. Hypothermia, I'd reckon.
Once they can fly up into low bushes/trees, it increases the odds of survival, giving them a respite from the wet ground AND from the numerous predators hunting there.
Even a long cold winter with deep snow doesn't have as much of an affect as people think. If I remember correctly, adult turkeys can loose an amazing percentage of their overall body weight in the winter and still pull through.
I believe these cold wet springs have similiar affects on cottontail populations. I dont rabbit hunt, but my observations are that, like turkeys, their population is currently down.
MZ
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tomsnare
It's a good time to be a trapper!
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Post by tomsnare on May 24, 2012 10:44:46 GMT -5
My old Airedale"Genie" and a model 12 Winchester!!!
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Post by twotrappers on May 24, 2012 11:31:09 GMT -5
The population of the wild turkey is affected by several things and one of the more popular thing is predation. My question to you is: Do you think that the coyoteor the Fox Affects the population of wild turkey more.and WHY do you think this. Scott My guess is fox because they have smaller home ranges and dont have as many prey options as coyotes. But the focus should be on the factors affecting turkey populations that the DEC can actually control. The DEC can't control the weather and eliminate all predation. But the DEC can create habitat that affords turkeys some degree more protection from wet weather and helps them hide nests, broods, and themselves from predators. The DEC also has the ability to set laws to reduce the impact people and thier pets have on turkeys. Obviously there is no Silver Bullet to prevent low ebbs of turkey populations that fluctuate naturally like all wildlife. But wildlife science has reached the point of being able to flatten the graph by regulating people and improving habitat.
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Post by trappermac on May 24, 2012 12:33:38 GMT -5
Even a long cold winter with deep snow doesn't have as much of an affect as people think. Then how do you explain this? ...actually they can survive winters nicely as long as they can scratch down to get food. Its the winters that have deep snows with a crust and long periods of 0 temps that hurt a turkey in the winter.
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Post by mole on May 24, 2012 15:59:31 GMT -5
We get a little snow up here and it does get a little cool also. Turkeys have learned to bud like grouse . Broke up a crow attack today on a hen and her brood. Crow rates very high on the turkey predation ladder.
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Post by ecgreen on May 24, 2012 16:29:45 GMT -5
I have certainly called in my share of canines turkey hunting. I take this to mean that I sound like a dying turkey when I call!
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wcs
Posts: 1,159
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Post by wcs on May 24, 2012 17:16:24 GMT -5
I was lucky enough to observe a hen with hew clutch. She had to have at least 15 poults with her. Little fuzz balls had to be a few days old. As far as predators, I gotta believe that raptors have a high kill % especially on young ones. I have also seen more and more raptors of all species a lot more often to boot. Their populations seem to be real high right now.,
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Post by coonduke on May 24, 2012 20:46:10 GMT -5
Zagman...you are spot on with the rabbit theory.
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