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Post by ecgreen on Apr 24, 2012 14:25:55 GMT -5
Just got thinking after seeing another post. Lets put this to rest once and for all ;D. DO we really need to clean traps with chemicals? Mark Zagger doesnt (correct me if I am wrong mark), and he pulls in ridiculous numbers of the animal that supposedly has one of the keenest noses.
Well?
Sean
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Post by ecgreen on Apr 24, 2012 14:37:57 GMT -5
OH...and the "personal preference" argument doesn't count....lol
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Post by Itrapny on Apr 24, 2012 14:46:50 GMT -5
That depends and what you mean by chemicals....beer is essential ;D Seriously....all that is really required is to get the crud (mud, blood, etc.) off the traps before you boild them again and this can be mostly be accomplished by powerwashing. However, If you wax your traps each year you won't get 100% of the old wax off just by powerwashing & boiling (especially in hard to reach areas) and this is where a little chemical action helps out. Not really necessary as once you put that trap back inton the hot wax pot the old wax will mix with the new and you'll be all set.....However, I've never known boiling in logwood to get rid of skunk odor and I really don't want every trap I wax to smell like skunk
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Post by walleyed on Apr 24, 2012 15:10:11 GMT -5
I powerwash all my traps when I pull for the year, right after they come out of the ground using the Local Carwash as I don't own a pressure washer.
I am especially paranoid about this as I use common table salt as an antifeeze agent mixed into my final dry dirt covering which holds my peat moss in place from blowing away in the wind.
This, because, If you don't get every last bit of salt off, the rust can really do a number on your traps.
Still, after all that, there is always some type of material caked or clinging to some traps, and hair, and skunk odor, and some lure odor, and on and on.
The last thing I want is a contaminated dye mixture, or worse, a contaminated wax mixture.
Cleaners and strippers containing lye or something like it...... takes all that Contaminated stuff off MY traps.
Then I reboil with a new container in clean water, overflow with more clean water, and then I am ready to dye, and then wax.
Call me paranoid, but I have not had any problem with contaminated or dug up fox traps since the last time I tried to cut corners by NOT following this process.
It may indeed, NOT be necessary, but until someone can PROVE to me, unequivocally, that it isn't, I shall continue to follow this ritual.
walleyed
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Post by ecgreen on Apr 24, 2012 15:55:23 GMT -5
Zagger catching 100+ coyotes in 3 weeks is not proof?
Keep in mind, I am kinda busting your hump here...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2012 15:59:23 GMT -5
When I put the extra effort into cleaning my traps properly......... I sleep better at night. To each his own.
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Post by AppleDoctor on Apr 24, 2012 16:37:25 GMT -5
It may not be 100% necessary for the soul purpose of catching an animal, but I think more importantly is it necessary in order to maintain and get the longest life out of your traps
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Zagman
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,186
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Post by Zagman on Apr 24, 2012 16:58:51 GMT -5
While I don't use anything besides power washing and boiling water, I certainly could see some value in giving my traps a good cleaning one of these days. I've accepted that ALL the wax probably ONLY comes off.....in my wax pot!
Cleanliness......ah, the 800 pound gorilla in the room.
I look at cleanliness and canine trapping like learning to drive.
You are taught "by the book", hands at "ten and two" etc.
BUT, as you drive and gain experience, you develop your own style and no longer follow the book, per se.
While I dont do the chemical thing, I know many do and certainly would not disparage that approach.
Muratic acid? Now that is another subject and and hard lesson learned for me.....and that stuff will not touch my traps again.
Carry on!
MZ
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Post by walleyed on Apr 24, 2012 17:16:10 GMT -5
Zagger catching 100+ coyotes in 3 weeks is not proof? Keep in mind, I am kinda busting your hump here... AAAHHHHH !!! But I don't Trap Coyotes, Thank God !! LOL walleyed
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Post by centro44 on Apr 24, 2012 17:16:52 GMT -5
you have to try ways that you know of and heard/read about......you will find one that you like and you think works the best........what mark zagger likes to do, you may not like that......just like i dont trap mink until january and bill stops trapping them at that time......it is just what you feel is best and like.......not to be mean and all but just because zagger catches 100 plus coyotes doesnt mean you need to do exactly what he does....if he uses mb 550's, it doesnt mean you need to buy all mb 550's......nothing against him at all......great trapper he is.....just saying you will find what you like and others wont......just like someone may call me crazy to trap fox and coyote with fruit....."curiousity killed the cat".......ever use shaving cream? same concept....curiousity is what i like and others dont ;D.......eric
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Apr 24, 2012 18:04:04 GMT -5
Just got thinking after seeing another post. Lets put this to rest once and for all ;D. DO we really need to clean traps with chemicals? Mark Zagger doesnt (correct me if I am wrong mark), and he pulls in ridiculous numbers of the animal that supposedly has one of the keenest noses. Well? Sean how many might he catch with perfectly clean traps at every set?
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Apr 24, 2012 18:07:58 GMT -5
fwiw: a lot of us here have caught a lot of fox in coon sets on land covered with grass or leaves alone. I caught maybe +/- 50 reds and grays combined in #220s dipped with speed dip, and many of those traps were still gummy in spots. So who knows what the cutoff is for "clean" versus "dirty"... and just where is the cutoff? It's too easy and simple to do the right thing and take at least the minimum steps to treat traps. Our best efforts certainly cannot hurt, and the price of steel these days is not going down. It never has, in the history of modern day traps
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Post by trappermac on Apr 24, 2012 18:32:08 GMT -5
I soak my traps for a day in plain water, loosens everything up. Then power wash. Then go through the stubborn ones with a brush, then hose them off. Then boil in water to remove as much wax as I can.....never get it all off. Then dye and then wax, use the same wax every year and I know wax from the traps re-dissolves in there and my wax looks like hell. But I add a couple cakes each year and it hasn't hurt anything. Traps always look nice afterwards.....that's what is important after all isn't it?.. ;D Mark...muriatic acid....(refined hydrochloric acid), is used to activate steel in my industry (metal finishing)...when steel comes out of muriatic it is highly active and is looking to oxidize.....will rust before your very eyes....which I'm sure you witnessed... ...not to mention a nasty smell, heavy fumes since the steel gassed out and released hydrogen gas which irritated the hell out of your nose....correct? Burns a bit on the skin also!
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Zagman
#2 Newhouse
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Post by Zagman on Apr 24, 2012 20:10:15 GMT -5
Like chain length discussions on traps (short or long) I guess traps are dirty or clean? No in between?
On the chain thing, I've often suggested perhaps a middle length......my chains are not long or short....they are in between!
Not sure how anyone could profess to know what category my traps fall into under cleanliness.......or what I catch or don't catch due to this category.
I power wash and boil my traps every year. Then I dye and wax them. Lot's of work...........lot's and lot's of work to get it done. Throwing in an extra step wouldn't hurt a thing and I certainly don't avoid it due to extra work, time, of money. Just never did it and hadn't seen a reason to do so.
Perhaps I am missing the boat? Certainly, the investment I have in higher-end traps warrants extra care if only for that reason....yet I don't have rust buckets out there fishing for coyotes.
FAR FAR better canine trappers than I do even less to their traps.....I know guys that ONLY power wash and wax.........every year. Year after year after year.............
Guys often point to contaminated traps as an excuse as to why they have issues or problems. What is the proof of contaminated traps? Often, IMO, I feel it is a convenient excuse to an unknown problem....."My traps are dirty" or "My population is down" are excuses I hear annually, but not from that group of trappers far better than me!
My traps ARE clean......to what degree? Not sure....but closer to clean than dirty for sure!
MZ
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Post by nightstalker1 on Apr 24, 2012 20:20:13 GMT -5
.......and they are well waxed
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Post by bballou on Apr 24, 2012 20:58:57 GMT -5
DOES THE BOTTOM LINE HERE-------- GO---------After doing this trapping thing for a while----we all end up DOING ---------- WHAT WORKS FOR US.-----rather its boiling --waxing ---power washing ---ETC--ETC---we all END up doing what works for ----US.
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Post by centro44 on Apr 24, 2012 21:35:08 GMT -5
hey bill gets it.........
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traps82
#3 Newhouse
Hope is always alive
Posts: 3,208
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Post by traps82 on Apr 24, 2012 22:19:39 GMT -5
He always does... Bill taught me more about fishers and otters in a 2 hr phone call that I could have learned in... Well, let's say, a long time!!
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Post by ecgreen on Apr 25, 2012 5:00:58 GMT -5
Just got thinking after seeing another post. Lets put this to rest once and for all ;D. DO we really need to clean traps with chemicals? Mark Zagger doesnt (correct me if I am wrong mark), and he pulls in ridiculous numbers of the animal that supposedly has one of the keenest noses. Well? Sean how many might he catch with perfectly clean traps at every set? Well there would be the acid test for sure. I also wonder if location is a factor here. What if this is possible: if a set location is excellent and spot on, which marks are because his trained dogs find them for him, does a dirty trap matter less? IOW, would a coyote perhaps miss a stinky trap because he is over excited at a great location? This would explain why someone less experienced who puts a trap in an iffy location will hook up more with super clean traps. The coyote may be a bit more weary at a so-so location, so a clean trap might matter more. I dunno...
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Post by Itrapny on Apr 25, 2012 5:41:45 GMT -5
Since when did a coyote get it's PhD and become able to think & reason? They don't even know what a trap is let alone what it smells like....BUT, I say BUT...they do know what food is and if you have any bait, lure, blood, etc. on your trap they WILL dig it up! So know matter what you've read or been told, the only reason that folks dye and wax traps is to clean and protect them....wax DOES NOT remove odor.....in fact, wax has an odor and if you think dyeing and waxing your traps will make them invisible uder that covering of dirt you've been misled
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Apr 25, 2012 5:53:36 GMT -5
I've always boiled canine traps in sumac tops and then waxed... it's a tradition, I like the process and smell. But a few years ago I had no clean fox traps by midwinter and stooped to using some #2s that were speed dipped the year before and unwaxed. Guess what? No visible difference in performance. To me the critical factors at a canine set are bedding and pan approach. If a fox or coyote doesn't tip a shifty trap and likewise hits the pan on approach, it's over with. Too many dug-up traps are blamed for contamination when in fact that's not the problem. Also, more than a few times in the past I would move a fox, possum or skunk catch trap to clean spot and set it with some hot dirt = duff saved from fox circles to cover the whole pattern in "hay set" fashion. Clean ground, dirty trap... covered by hot red fox odors. Works like a charm, no problems with digging or rejection. a "contaminated" trap in fresh dirt masked by "contaminated" covering
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Post by trappermac on Apr 25, 2012 6:56:00 GMT -5
I think that too many trappers try to over think this trapping thing. Like there must be some big secret to ones success. What is this or that person doing that makes them more successful than me. They miss a canine and try to over-evaluate what could have gone wrong. How bout bad luck.
Take a decently clean trap (they will still smell it), make a good set with lure and whatever, make sure it's in an area with populations, and it will catch canines...eventually, maybe. Now, put out many sets across many good areas with good populations, work your @ss off doing it, and you'll catch lots more. Personally, you could have dirty traps, but put out 100 sets with those dirty traps where there are canines and you will be successful. Might you have more success with clean traps? Who knows. Success isn't based upon a clean trap IMO. A simple formula - Knowlege of the animal and basic sets, populations, lots of sets, lots of hard work. Effort = Output.
Don't over think it.
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Post by Lonny Mattison on Apr 25, 2012 7:41:11 GMT -5
K.I.S.S. KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID!! A good rule of thumb I have learned.
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Zagman
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,186
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Post by Zagman on Apr 25, 2012 7:50:32 GMT -5
Think about a perfectly clean WAXED trap....heck, I can smell the wax on it.....
I must admit, I love it that without any comment from me on this thread initially, I am now known to be running around the country setting dirty traps!
MZ
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Post by Itrapny on Apr 25, 2012 8:21:08 GMT -5
Zagman>>>>> ;D
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