wcs
Posts: 1,159
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Post by wcs on Jan 30, 2016 15:23:57 GMT -5
I thought I read somewhere, maybe the Sportsmanship Alliance, that a bill that would allow for the use of cable restraints in NY, had passed the committee stage unanimously. The bill now goes before the assembly for consideration. Nothing mentioned about it on here. Maybe a NYSTA board member can chime in and give us an update. I know last time members were asked to contact out representatives on this matter. Thanks.
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Post by bluetickboy on Jan 30, 2016 19:32:28 GMT -5
Being a trapper and a hound guy, I hope it never happens.
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Post by trappermac on Jan 30, 2016 20:36:46 GMT -5
Its a restraint....like putting your hound on a leash. But you're OK with footholds i assume.
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wcs
Posts: 1,159
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Post by wcs on Feb 1, 2016 8:25:33 GMT -5
Ttt
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Post by walleyed on Feb 1, 2016 16:38:13 GMT -5
Getting The Use of Cable Restraints as a Legal Fur Bearer Management Tool in New York State could be the Proverbial Double-Edged Sword for We Trappers, and will open a whole new world For Taking a wide variety of Fur Species with a Very Effective method.
By the Same Token, all it will take for to Disaster to Strike and Give a Big Black Eye to We trappers is for Some Boneheaded Poaching Criminal Misfit Masquerading as a Legitimate Trapper to use These Devices illegally without the proper Hardware and setting them in the wrong place resulting in the catching of a Non-target species or a domestic pet and we'll end up paying the price for their lack of Ethics, Discretion and their Stupidity.
Something Similar to what happened at the Seneca Army Depot recently only replace the 220 Body-grip with an illegal Cable device.
Makes you give pause, and ponder whether having the Legal use of these devices will come back to bite us in the backside from an Oblique Angle.
w
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Post by ron finewood on Feb 1, 2016 19:49:42 GMT -5
It may be because I do not fully understand the "cable restraint" concept---but every critter I have seen in a picture----in a cable restraint, had expired. What is the difference between a snare and a cable restraint? Let's say I set cable restraint for a fox and have it rigged to close only to about a 4" diameter---like a "leash" as somebody above said. Then a large coonhound, with a 7" diameter neck gets caught? We all know what will happen. Without more information, I am 100% against these things. Seriously, this is just a catastrophe waiting to happen. Unfortunately, I have caught more than one dog in a foothold, and all were released unharmed, except for my stiches. As trappers, we are already living on the edge of the political game. I see no need to push the envelope farther. We will lose.
Ron Finewood
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Post by jeckman on Feb 1, 2016 19:53:17 GMT -5
Im glad PA allowed them...
Funny how people even some trappers see a snare as a bad thing then there's places like new jersey that only allows snaring and not footholds...
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Post by jdpaint on Feb 1, 2016 20:15:55 GMT -5
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Post by jeckman on Feb 1, 2016 20:23:04 GMT -5
I've caught 3 different dogs this year in CRs all released unharmed. I'm somewhere around 10 or 12 fox and 3 yotes in CRs too and could've released all them too unharmed..
Don't confuse a snare set up with entanglement with a CR set properly.. Basically a CR just holds a critter like it has on a choke collar. So when they stop pulling the lock relaxes...
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Post by snowrd on Feb 1, 2016 22:10:38 GMT -5
I wish we could use this tool.
Mr Walleyed, I appreciate the posts you put up, and I see your point. But I have to disagree saying that the criminals could use it illegally so everyone shouldn't have it is like saying that ice cream should be outlawed because it makes people fat.
I will never agree with that way of thinking. Not trying to ruffle feathers, just saying.
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Post by erict on Feb 1, 2016 22:52:19 GMT -5
The Senate and the Assembly both have identical bills. Go HERE and where it says "Bill Search" click the menu to do a "Word Search" where you can look up all of the proposed bills. Last year the Senate passed the cable restraint bill and the Assembly let it die. This year it has been referred back to the Environmental Conservation Committee. It appears that some here have not read the text of the proposal, so here it is: EXPLANATION--Matter in bold (underscored) is new; The People of the State of New York, represented in Senate and Assembly, do enact as follows: Section 1, Subdivision 5 of section 11-1101 of the environmental conservation law is amended to read as follows: 5. Except as provided in subdivision 1 or 2 of section 11-0523 of this article with respect to destructive and menacing wildlife, no person shall: (a) set or use a trap of the leg-gripping type having teeth in the jaws; (b) set a leg hold trap so that wildlife when caught is suspended; (c) use, locate or set a snare or a device consisting of a noose of any material whereby an animal may be taken, except the department may, by regulation, authorize the use of live restraint cable devices to take coyote and other species as allowed by the department in the northern zone. These regulations shall include live cable restraint devices consisting of at least one swivel, a relaxing lock, a deer stop, and a break away device. For the purposes of this provision: (1) a swivel is a device incorporated at the end of the cable restraint which allows the captured animal to freely rotate; (2) a relaxing lock is a device that allows the cable loop to stop restricting when the captured animal stops pulling; (3) a deer stop is a device incorporated into the loop of the cable restraint that keeps the cable restraint from closing beyond a specified circumference to allow deer that may encounter the restraint to escape; and (4) a break away device allows the loop of the cable restraint to break open when a specified amount of force is applied. Trappers using live cable restraint devices must complete a training course in their construction and use offered by the department. § 2. This act shall take effect immediately and shall expire and be deemed repealed February 16, 2019.
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wcs
Posts: 1,159
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Post by wcs on Feb 2, 2016 7:43:20 GMT -5
Walleyed, I am surprised at your post. Good guys should not be punished because of some bad apples. It's just like the quintessential gun rights argument.
For you hound guys, are hound men losing dogs like crazy in all the states that allow CR? I ask because I don't know the answer, not trying to be a wise guy. I would think if it were that big of an issue, we would hear more about it. NJ allows it, PA allows them and I can't remember hearing of issues.
Still no word from any board members?
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tmc
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,447
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Post by tmc on Feb 2, 2016 8:13:07 GMT -5
For those boo-hooing CABLE RESTRAINTS, and those asking for more information about CABLE RESTRAINTS, why don't you just take the free CABLE RESTRAINT certification course(s) offered by the DEC? They did one at Herkimer last year and I attended. Some things were already known, some things that I thought I knew turned out to be wrong, but by the widest margin were the things that I didn't even know I didn't know but learned. It was well done, and very informative. Part of the class was making our own CABLE RESTRAINTS. Yes, it's a mindset, this errant thinking equating snares to CABLE RESTRAINTS. I don't know when it'll sink in but I hope it's soon. CABLE RESTRAINTS ARE NOT SNARES. The very reason the DEC allows them NOW for nuisance beaver is BECAUSE animals can be released, almost always unharmed, and that includes the Sacred River Otters. If they were so deadly, you know CABLE RESTRAINTS wouldn't be allowed in the case of incidental otter catches.
Get the facts. I think the best way is by attending one of the certification courses, which, if CABLE RESTRAINTS become legal, will be a requirement anyhow.
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Post by peltseeker on Feb 2, 2016 8:13:34 GMT -5
Ok im not a hound guy and kinda dont understand the whole concept of it ..we have a few around here and how i see it is you drop the hounds off hounds pick up scent and hounds chase coyote across numerous miles of land to what point Coyote runs where it feels it can escape which is regaurdless of property boundaries fences roads rivers and streams..is it just the excitement of driving around looking for your dogs like an idiot ?? Is it sitting on the roadside of posted property waiting for a glimpse of an animal running in terror hoping to get a shot on land you have no permission to hunt ? Now i have hunted rabbits with dogs and the scenario is much different and more controlled as rabbits tend to run in circles when worked slow by a beagle... Coons and cats tree to escape the dogs and again much controlled scenario compared to the coyote who can only run ...again i am only trying to understand the concept and point of it .... If your dog is let loose to run a coyote and you are not there to control the scenario and your dog dies in a snare or restraint how is it the fault or failure of the trapper who set the device If the coyote crosses a road and your dog follows and gets hit by a car is it the drivers fault too
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Zagman
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,186
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Post by Zagman on Feb 2, 2016 8:29:06 GMT -5
I am all for them.....and as someone pointed out, states like OH, PA, WI, MI, etc. that have recently made them lawful have YET to take them away due to issues mentioned above.....
I have actually used cables in MT and WY and KS and like any tool, they have their place, and are a wonderful tool in the tool box....
Fingers crossed...
I believe, if I recall, the bills, if passed, simply allow the DEC to now take a look at their use? If that is correct, there are a TON of studies, BMP-like, out there that other states spent money on to research and implement these devices. Will our state utilize EXISTING studies and proof and justification to allow their use?
That's the million dollar question.
Clearly, we need to get our legislators to approve the bills and give the DEC the freedom to explore cables....
IMO....
MZ
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Post by trappermac on Feb 2, 2016 8:57:20 GMT -5
Ok im not a hound guy and kinda dont understand the whole concept of it ...is it just the excitement of driving around looking for your dogs like an idiot ?? Is it sitting on the roadside of posted property waiting for a glimpse of an animal running in terror You got to be kidding.....you're right, you don't understand it at all. A trapper can look like an idiot checking empty traps all day. No need in this thread to undermine hound guys. They have the same rights as trappers.
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Post by redknot on Feb 2, 2016 13:01:55 GMT -5
But don't forget the bill only allows for use in the Northern Zone...
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Post by ellwood on Feb 2, 2016 13:49:44 GMT -5
I live in the northern zone. We receive 10-15' feet of snow a year, sometimes more. Sometimes several feet by thanksgiving. Snares are a tool that when properly used are nearly a necessity for us. As far as the hounds, i used to run them, but there is not enough open land to do it without trampling on landowners rights. When i ask permission to trap someones land, i tell them all the same thing. You pay the taxes, you make the rules. If they say no, that's it, on to the next one. We as trappers need to stick together. In case you haven't noticed its us against everyone!
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Post by ellwood on Feb 2, 2016 13:53:52 GMT -5
Sorry, i meant cable restraints. Like TMC stated they are two totally different tools.
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Post by njtrapper on Feb 2, 2016 14:17:44 GMT -5
hi all being from nj I don't post here often but I often visit to see your pics. as you know in nj we can only use cable restraints, so I can personally tell you they are very safe and effective tool to have. when used correctly the accidential mortality rate is almost non existant. this year I have caught in CR 20 fox, coons beaver, mink, OTTER and two domestic dogs of which all were alive with the exception of one fox that was mauled by a coyote while in the CR. If you make entanglement sets you turn your CR into a lethal set. when I set in tree rows or any where a entanglement situation may occur I attach my CR to a 20' one way lead to get any catch out of that situation. we are a very small populated state with dog hunters and trappers sharing the same land all the time, and yes the dog hunters do hate the trappers because we do catch one of their dogs now and then but as far as I know non of the dogs been harmed. only one time did I here of a ladys dog being killd by a snare and both parties were in the wrong. the lady had no business trespassing and walking her dog off leash and the guy who set the snare wasent licensed and never took the CR course and set a illegal snare. I been using CR for 15 years trapping private and public lands equally and never had a issue. I even trap a couple pheasant farms where people bring their dogs every day to hunt pheasants, so every year those properties see 100's of dogs and have not had one problem
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Post by jeckman on Feb 2, 2016 17:28:38 GMT -5
Good post NJ...
My thoughts from a PA boy don't knock the new stuff because you think something...
Look into it solidly then make a conclusion...
Guns kill people. No people kill people..period...
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Post by mud on Feb 2, 2016 17:43:24 GMT -5
To read some of the posts....my goodness.
I must be doing it all wrong here. You would think Id be stacking up domestics like cord wood, and I dont have a one again.
Embrace a new tool if given the chance! No one is forcing you to give up what you have already..and be thankful for that. We know about that down here!
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Post by ron finewood on Feb 2, 2016 21:16:25 GMT -5
TO njtrapper: Pardon me, but I am very curious how hundreds of bird dogs miss your cable restraints while sniffing out game birds. I honestly can't even see how that is possible. Hundreds of dogs--- and not even one sticks their head in a noose? Seriously? You are fortunate to have permission there-----If it was my Pheasant Farm, you wouldn't. I can almost see where CR's could be a possibility in the Northern Zone----say 1000' or more from a dwelling. And Ellwood, you certainly don't have 10-15' of snow this year, because I am there quite often and there is less than 6" of snow right now. I still vote against CR's. I think they are a problem waiting to happen. Ron
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Post by njtrapper on Feb 2, 2016 22:02:05 GMT -5
I don't set the fields they stock and unlike the dirt hole set you guys make and use baits and sents on we rarely use them, like I said we do catch the ocational one but probably less than you guys do because of the lack of bait or sents, when we do use bait it cant be within 30' of our sets and I never do that when dogs are a possibility, in 15 years I can count on one hand how many I caught and every one was sitting there wagging its tail waiting for me. the one I caught last week I had the hardest time releasing because it kept rolling over for me to scratch its belly, lol. down here every pheasant and chicken farmers/ preserves beg us to come set it and basically give us run of the farm to set where we need to, they just ask us to put ribbon near the set so if one of the dogs don't come back they can go find it and release it. never had one of their hunters complain earthier, actually they complained more when the fox got to the birds quicker than they could hunt them
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Post by njtrapper on Feb 2, 2016 22:15:41 GMT -5
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