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Post by minkwaders on Feb 2, 2015 0:38:52 GMT -5
If they opened a southern otter season they would be trapped to extinction within a few years. i watched two otters all summer then they were trapped by someone in beaver run with a 280 and i am sure they were nt reported to the DEC.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Feb 2, 2015 5:43:26 GMT -5
If they opened a southern otter season they would be trapped to extinction within a few years. i watched two otters all summer then they were trapped by someone in beaver run with a 280 and i am sure they were nt reported to the DEC. marshrat, over the past three - four years thru all of your various false monikers here, your lies remain steadily unchanged: you constantly claim to see illegal trapping and trappers all around you, everywhere. The rest of this board combined has never seen half as many supposed infractions in our lives as you've reported witnessing yourself here. now can you stop the pathological lying about illegal trapping & trappers in here? we're afraid there might be one lone gullible person out there who comes along and actually half-believes you for a minute.
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Post by k9goodtimes on Feb 2, 2015 6:41:02 GMT -5
If they opened a southern otter season they would be trapped to extinction within a few years. i watched two otters all summer then they were trapped by someone in beaver run with a 280 and i am sure they were nt reported to the DEC. I've avoided this thread as i don't water trap to the extent of others who posted before me. But here i go. To attempt to be selective for one species, at the cost of another is wrong. Injured beaver for the sake of otters is the proverbial cutting off the nose to spite the face. Lets wound an animal we CAN trap to protect one we cant...BMP just went right out the window. That said, you can only be so selective in trapping. That trap fires on whatever hits that trigger. Be it closed for the season or not. The otters you saw trapped, you physical saw them? Or they stopped coming around so you assume they were trapped? If you did physically see them trapped, did you contact DEC? How do you know they weren't reported? As was stated earlier, we could run around plugging every drainage with 220s and 280s with centered triggers and be legal. What stops us? Ethics. Same goes for reporting non-target catches. Why report them? Ethics. Sure the law says so, but ultimately it comes down to ethics. Same applies to injuring beaver for the sake of otters. It becomes an ethics question.
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Post by papabear on Feb 2, 2015 9:06:30 GMT -5
Dear Friends, Have two families of otter within a five minute drive and a short walk from my house. Seems to be plenty of otter inhabiting the Mohawk River and its tributaries around here. Regards
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wcs
Posts: 1,159
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Post by wcs on Feb 2, 2015 10:33:33 GMT -5
If they opened a southern otter season they would be trapped to extinction within a few years. i watched two otters all summer then they were trapped by someone in beaver run with a 280 and i am sure they were nt reported to the DEC. There is a season here and there are still lots of otters in our waterways
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Post by k9goodtimes on Feb 2, 2015 11:17:06 GMT -5
When I pull two rats missing heads today, only had 4 sets out. caught 4. Otters ate half my catch...and I can't trap it...and its a ditch creek beaver pond over 5 miles from any major waterway...
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Post by broadhorizons on Feb 2, 2015 12:37:15 GMT -5
A couple seasons ago I had to getf some pelts sealed and when I took them to the Utica office, I got in a discussion about Southern Tier otters with the biologist who is also an avid outdoorsman and trapper.
In his view at the time, most of the water would never hold significant resident populations. He believed that the majority of the population will be located around the Mohawk, Barge, and other major waterways and their larger tributaries. Hence, a trappable population will only occupy a percentage of the overall area and that only a percentage of trappers will only catch a percentage of the overall population. He felt that "if" an otter is caught in a not-so suitable habitat, it would only be traveling through randomly and would probably have never been back.
His thoughts made sense to me.
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Post by trappermac on Feb 2, 2015 14:40:36 GMT -5
A couple seasons ago I had to getf some pelts sealed and when I took them to the Utica office, I got in a discussion about Southern Tier otters with the biologist who is also an avid outdoorsman and trapper. In his view at the time, most of the water would never hold significant resident populations. He believed that the majority of the population will be located around the Mohawk, Barge, and other major waterways and their larger tributaries. Hence, a trappable population will only occupy a percentage of the overall area and that only a percentage of trappers will only catch a percentage of the overall population. He felt that "if" an otter is caught in a not-so suitable habitat, it would only be traveling through randomly and would probably have never been back. His thoughts made sense to me. Makes sense to me as well, somewhat echos my own thoughts on this.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Feb 2, 2015 15:05:02 GMT -5
A couple seasons ago I had to getf some pelts sealed and when I took them to the Utica office, I got in a discussion about Southern Tier otters with the biologist who is also an avid outdoorsman and trapper. In his view at the time, most of the water would never hold significant resident populations. He believed that the majority of the population will be located around the Mohawk, Barge, and other major waterways and their larger tributaries. His thoughts made sense to me. well yes, of course. He is saying the habitat is marginal at best, and current population is at carrying capacity for the region. We all agree on that... which means trying to protect the peak population capable of carrying per the habitat is folly. Rescind the useless trigger regs on bodygrip traps this season, then work on sustainable harvest from there.
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Post by herm on Feb 2, 2015 19:20:40 GMT -5
A year or so back I asked the DEC at a NYSTA BOD meeting if there were any plans to remove the trigger regs. on the 330s and made note of the effects the trap had when used with the offset trigger on the beaver. The reply was, no such plans.
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Post by chappy on Feb 2, 2015 22:13:50 GMT -5
Pennsylvania is in the process of opening up two wildlife zones in the northeast part of their state for the 2015-2016 season for otter. If approved it would be a three day season using five traps and a limit of one otter. That is not a season....That is a joke!!!!! If all New York trappers don't oppose limits you can expect to see them on other species in the near future. We are going to have to get very loud on this one!!!!
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traps82
#3 Newhouse
Hope is always alive
Posts: 3,208
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Post by traps82 on Feb 3, 2015 8:22:12 GMT -5
Bottom line- NY and NY DEC could care less what trappers or hunters think.
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Post by flatiron on Feb 3, 2015 8:29:37 GMT -5
Pennsylvania is in the process of opening up two wildlife zones in the northeast part of their state for the 2015-2016 season for otter. If approved it would be a three day season using five traps and a limit of one otter. That is not a season....That is a joke!!!!! If all New York trappers don't oppose limits you can expect to see them on other species in the near future. We are going to have to get very loud on this one!!!! Chappy, most of us feel this way too.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Feb 3, 2015 9:00:47 GMT -5
Apart from potential seasons and proposals on that, let's begin with a complete halt on any further trap restrictions for effective beaver trapping. At this point in time, the otter population across entire NYS is high as it'll ever be. Nobody is creating more watersheds nor are they raising water levels in existing watersheds, so potential carrying capacity is capped. Whatever otter exist right now today is most there will ever be. Accept that fact as fact, they are either a sustainable population with ability to harvest or a fringe species that's inconsequential to exist or not.
Regardless, let's get back to trapping beaver without worthless trap restrictions and resume otter trapping in all the traditional places otter trapping was permitted prior to the restoration program elsewhere.
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Post by newfox1 on Feb 3, 2015 9:53:28 GMT -5
got 13 dollars for a nice sm-med leftover at fha and 43 for a real nice large at nafa, my first two, wish I would have had them tanned
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Post by wbg on Feb 3, 2015 12:45:54 GMT -5
fwiw, I think You guys would be better of rejecting an otter season if it means a ridiculously low quota such as Penn. is going to do. This idea of ''trophy'' trapping is going to be the end of us all.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Feb 4, 2015 6:48:48 GMT -5
from what we hear thru the grapevine, expanded fisher seasons into new areas are proposed to include some sort of quota or limits. We knew that was coming a year ago when the DEC sent out a trapper survey for that specific purpose. The only question they cared about was one worded in a way that the multiple choice answers all steered towards limits and quotas. Any write-in answers otherwise we warned to be rejected. The other inane questions were just fluff to make it look legit. The DEC wanted written feedback from trappers that would rationalize and support their pre-determined actions on this.
but that's a sideline topic for another time. I opened this thread to foster constructive input from anyone, in-state or out as it pertains to otter seasons, protectionism measures and adverse impact on beaver traps, trappers and trapping. At this time we'd be pacified if the current trigger restrictions on 10" traps went unchanged. That alone would be acceptable. Any further restrictions are unacceptable. To rescind the current measures and do away with them entirely is encouraged.
forward progress on some sort of otter season is expected. Keeping vocal pressure on the decision makers is the only way progress gets made. Otherwise, status quo is too easy. This message board, facebook, texts, emails all permit trappers across the state to instantly communicate a collective voice on these matters. I made the decision this year to quit wasting my time bantering & arguing the same tired, inane topics with silly banter in trapper message boards. I'm too old for that infantile s(tuff). But I am willing to invest my time in organizing some positive changes for trappers & trapping, the subject of beaver traps and otter regs being one of those.
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Post by johnrockwood on Feb 4, 2015 10:09:41 GMT -5
Although these discussions are important and relevant, I would highly suggest that all of you save as much energy as you can to address the upcoming fisher management plan. It is my sincere belief that trappers will have PLENTY to defend at that time if they wish to avoid the potentially negative far reaching immediate and future implications of this management plan. We will need to focus our energies on one thing at a time, as they are presented to us, if we want to obtain the best possible results for NY's trappers.
NYSTA was told the new fisher management plan would be posted for comment in October, then November, then December, then January, and now we are being told it will be published for public comment by February 15th. New publications in the State Register always occur on Wednesdays. There is nothing regarding a fisher management plan in the Register this morning. There is only one more Wednesday before Feb. 15th, so..........................
When the fisher management plan comes out in the State Register you will also see proposed changes to some other trapping regulations, including the proposal to extend the trigger restriction requirements to body gripping traps 8.5 inches and larger.
We will only have 30 days to provide public comment, voicing our position on these issues. This will be an important process that will affect us all, as trappers, for many years to come.
The Department is not ready to discuss a new otter management plan yet, so they won't - period. Carry on with a quality discussion, knowing every bit of this is being monitored by several in the Department, which is a good thing as long as this thread remains constructive.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Feb 4, 2015 10:20:21 GMT -5
per the 8.5" trigger regulation proposal specifically, I strongly suggest we ALL voice our opinions, clearly and loudly.
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Post by johnrockwood on Feb 4, 2015 10:32:33 GMT -5
Please don't limit yourselves to just that
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Feb 4, 2015 10:44:25 GMT -5
Please don't limit yourselves to just that I'm not... the rest is left for other threads about different topics
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Post by johnrockwood on Feb 4, 2015 10:49:27 GMT -5
Perfect.............. Keep this one to otters from here on out. We'll start a new one when the fisher plan is published.
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traps82
#3 Newhouse
Hope is always alive
Posts: 3,208
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Post by traps82 on Feb 4, 2015 12:42:00 GMT -5
NYS and the DEC have already got their plans set. The "public comment" period is for show only. A perfect example is this entire thread.... 20 years of complete and total protection of otters in parts of the state. And in parts of the state WHERE THEY GOT THE OTTERS TO RESTOCK THE "RESTORATION AREA!!" How can they be believed or trusted?
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Feb 4, 2015 13:22:57 GMT -5
well, all we can do is work the process and see how it results from there. That means voicing our feedback and expecting our input from the field to hold weight.
as for the trigger restrictions specifically, I will use all #280s next season and beyond if/while restrictions apply. New regs won't cause me to think, "Well... it's all the same so what's the difference? Just use 10" traps and accept our fate"
The 8.5" traps with trigger regs are still a 7" true window in reality. That will do a better job on proper beaver dispatch than anything else with same restrictions. Misc otters that happen to come along will do whatever they do, out of my control.
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Post by redknot on Feb 4, 2015 13:32:00 GMT -5
DEC EXTENDS PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD ON REVISIONS TO LIST OF SPECIES OF GREATEST CONSERVATION NEED UNTIL MARCH 9
The public comment period for the draft Species of Greatest Conservation Need (SGCN) list is extended for an additional 30 days until March 9, the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) announced today.
DEC collaborated with numerous species experts and conservation partners to develop revisions to the Species of Greatest Conservation Need list, as part of an update to the State Wildlife Action Plan (SWAP). The SWAP identifies species that need conservation action to maintain their abundance and distribution in New York, threats to these species and management actions that will be undertaken in the next 10 years to conserve these designated species and their habitats.
The draft final list contains 372 SGCN, half of which are considered high priority for conservation action in the near term. SGCN are species that are declining or are at risk due to identified threats, such as loss of habitat, and conservation actions are appropriate to stabilize their populations in New York. An additional 111 species were categorized as Species of Potential Conservation Need (SPCN). SPCN are species that have poorly-known population status and trends in New York and will need further research or surveys to determine their conservation status.
The draft SGCN list can be accessed at: www.dec.ny.gov/animals/9406.html.
Comments can be e-mailed to swapcomments@dec.ny.gov or joe.racette@dec.ny.gov, or sent by regular mail to:
Joe Racette NYSDEC Division of Fish Wildlife and Marine Resources 5th Floor 625 Broadway Albany, NY 12233
Additional information about the SWAP can be found on the DEC website at: www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7179.html. ###
Staying on the Otter topic, have any other trappers sent comments to Joe Racette on the draft Species of Greatest Conservation Need, especially the part that would delist the river otter as a species of conservation need? Seems like the first step to opening any new areas to otter trapping would be to delist it across the State.........
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