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Post by herm on Dec 31, 2005 7:55:52 GMT -5
I would like to know why you guys that live in the section of NY that havent been able to set a trap for even a possum sense DEC.10 dont try to get your seasons changed to one that makes sense? If the reason for your early close is becouse the DEC wants to protect the fisher and marten you should be at least allowed to set out foothold traps that none target animals can be released from. If the reason is the DEC does not trust trappers to be out in the field and do the right thing then they hold all trappers as suspect that they will break the law.
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Post by Itrapny on Dec 31, 2005 8:31:25 GMT -5
Herm, I have spoken to a couple of Biologist and the main reason for suspending land trapping in the Adirondack's after Dec 10th is to protect the fisher population. There is talk of opening the season back up for footholds only on land after Dec. 10th but that is still pretty low key within the DEC for what I understand. Since the fisher population has not only increased in recent years but has expanded well out from the original NE and SE population centers I think that this would be a perfect proposal for NYSTA to bring up to the DEC. We need to talk the offesive instead of the defensive on some issues and not just take what they give us. This should be one of those issues.
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Post by herm on Dec 31, 2005 8:40:13 GMT -5
Itrap,How is trapping possum etc. indangering the fisher unless the reason is the one stated above? You are of course correct on taking the offesive,becouse if you are always on the defensive you will lose ever time.The reason I joined SCOPE is becouse they are the only sportsman group that I know of in NYS that is really going on the offesive.
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Post by Itrapny on Dec 31, 2005 8:57:18 GMT -5
I think that it is an older regulation that neds to be changed and just hasn't been. If their reasoning is that they don't trust trappers then why can we still land trap everywhere else, they just don't trust trappers in the Dacks? I don't think so. Maybe it's because they don't feel they can enforce it because they don't get out and patrol enough up North, I doubt that too. I really think that it's just a reg that was passed and has never really been revised since it's incerption and we as trappers need to push for changes. While we are on this subject of change, I'd like to see the 5 foot rule removed for muskrat trapping as well. There is no reason you can't set a 'rat trap on a feedbed on the side of a house and hurt the population. Now I don't advocate setting inside the house like some states allow, but many feedbeds, at least in my area, are right on the house itself. It would make trapping them a little easier and it would certainly fix the problem of what is a feeding pushup vs. a house. While we're at it, what about a 36 hour check law so most trappers would actually be in complance. Seriously, how many trappers out there can honestly say that they check every trap set within 24 hours. Things come up, what if you are runnning a little behind becuase of a larger than average catch that day, or what if you get a flat tire. I think a 36 hour check law would better the trapper. I could go on but we need to fight one battle at a time.
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Post by Scottthetrapper on Dec 31, 2005 13:47:03 GMT -5
A lot of the laws we, as trappers, deal with today came about because of the BS that was put forth by the high price furs of the late 70s and early 80s. Think about what it would be like today if we had all that happen over again. I agree that we need to take the offensive. We need to look at most of the rules and regulations we deal with and weed out the garbage. The short northern land trapping reg is one. A fur trapper should be able to take an animal when it's fur is most desirable. This presently doesn't exist with the fisher.
When I first started trapping, my trapping partner and I had one small marsh where we could take about 500 rats from every year. Of course we were the only ones trapping it then. Once the prices began to raise we had competition. We trapped by the book but some if not most of the others totally disregarded the laws. We could easily take 90% of the rats there when we had it to ourselves, but as soon as others started trapping there was now way to determine this figure. One year this marsh was trapped 100%. It has never recovered. I'm sure there are many factors that now combine to make this marsh less productive but at that time it was trapping pressure. Most of the trappers that are still out there are law abiding ones. We are concerned about the animals we trap and our government knows this. There are many laws that just don't make sense to us. We know the others that trap the same territory and can control the animal population to the numbers needed for all to be healthy. This could all change in an instant and that fact should be taken into consideration when we go after any rules and regs. We as trappers are the ones that know the health and populations of the lands we trap. I have never seen a biologist on any land I trap. They may have been there but I have never seen any and I'm sure they cannot know all that I do about the animals that are there. I believe that science should determine the rules we follow and the ones in the know should be the major factor in changing the rules. Government and politics doesn't always run this way and many compromises exist. This needs to stop on our part and we must stand tall and let the people know who knows what needs to be done. We don't need a minority making rules for us because they have the money. This is still America and our government is still by the people for the people. We are a Republic form of government not a Democratic one. Those in power want you to think differently. They need to be replaced by those who will follow our constitution, and not the whims of the EU, or some BS world form of governing. Many Americans gave their lives for the things that our constitution has given us. We as sportsmen need to unite and make sure our God given rights are not taken from us. Sometimes this will mean that we need to swallow our pride for the good of all that is involved.
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Post by mole on Dec 31, 2005 14:50:23 GMT -5
Our short land season is based on fisher. Other areas have a short beaver season,wich is based on otter. The less time there the less likelyhood of you catching an otter. I hate to think whats going to happen in some areas when otter start showing up in mink and muskrat traps. These regulations are not based on sciense. Look at your cyote reporting system, thats just a big joke,though I dont find it very funny. NYSDEC claims to be a leader in conservation programs. They dont prove it to me. They like the little programs that they can put in the publics eye that says How Great I am. This is why I have said and will say again; ADC TRAPPING will eliminate fur trapping in our state. Ed
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Post by fisherman on Jan 1, 2006 14:45:48 GMT -5
It is true that the early closure on land animals in the Adirondack is based on Fisher. I can verify that NYSTA has repeatedly requested that the Fisher season be moved back. This DEC mentality dates back many, many years.I can remember when they would have closed the season for taking "too many Fisher" as we did in 2004.Fortunately there have been a number of retirements within the DEC Furbearer team and I am optimistic with the two young biologists we now have in the North Country. They seem to be more receptive to a later land season. I agree with most of what Scott the Trapper said, but we need to be tactful and diplomatic in accomplishing change. It makes absolutely no sense to be catching blue, unprime fisher in October and be unable to trap Red Fox when they are at their very best after the 10th of December. I believe also that we should not be trapping beaver too early and that we should not target them until mid December. I know some trappers will not agree with that because they like their open water trapping, but if they would just hold off harvesting that beaver until later they would realize a much better price for the pelt. NYSTA will continue to push for that later land season in the North Country!
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Post by herm on Jan 2, 2006 7:14:14 GMT -5
I have to wonder what will happen to the Western NY trapping season as the Fisher exspanses to the west espiacially along the Southerntier.
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Post by mole on Jan 2, 2006 7:32:24 GMT -5
I dont believe the fisher expansion will affect other areas that much. What is happening is the restrictions caused by the otter programs. The super short beaver seasons. The 330 regulations. I dont want to sound paranoid but what may happen when otter start showing up in 220's or even 1.5 coils with mink sets. Ed
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Post by bobsamuelson on Jan 4, 2006 16:50:59 GMT -5
Shhhh... Herm, what do you think the DEC would do if I told them about the fisher living behind my house?
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Post by mikespring on Jan 4, 2006 18:02:33 GMT -5
It was a cat Bob.
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Post by Itrapny on Jan 4, 2006 18:26:29 GMT -5
A bobcat, that's just as bad, oh wait, that's an otter
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