Sportsman Ed

[paintedpaw]

    It has come to my attention that trapper training will no longer be an individual entity in the Sportsman Ed program, bur will become a lesser program under hunter training.. I wonder what bird brain dreamed that one up? Kinda makes you wonder what DEC really thinks about trapping.

[walleyed]

Jun 11, 2018 15:18:20 GMT -5 paintedpaw said:

    It has come to my attention that trapper training will no longer be an individual entity in the Sportsman Ed program, bur will become a lesser program under hunter training.. I wonder what bird brain dreamed that one up? Kinda makes you wonder what DEC really thinks about trapping.

Probably The Same Rocket Scientists That Wanted To Eliminate The Trapping License

and Fold Trappers Into The Hunting Demographic To Make Us Invisible, Lose Our Unique Identity & Heritage,

And In The Process, Take Away Our Voice In Managing The Fur-Bearer Resource.


Out Of Sight, Out Of Mind So To Speak.

You Won't Be Able To Quantify How Many Trappers There Are Out There If You Take Away Their Identity.


It's Easier To Get Rid Of A Group of Stakeholders If You Make Them Insignificant Or Invisible.


If DEC Combines Trapping & Hunters Education, Which Portion Of The Curriculum Do We Think Will Get

Diluted and Given The Short Shrift.



walleyed Smells Something Rotten In The Woodpile, and I Don't Think It's A Copy Of The Long Lost

Bylaws Of United Trappers !!! LOL

w

[tmc]

But but but, they're just trying to recruit more hunters as trappers, right? I mean, think about it, once hunters get an idea what trapping is REEEEEALLY all about, why they'll want to become trappers, right? Right? I mean like, trappers don't have to take hunter ed, right? So, like, the DEC is really ONTO something here, dontcha think? Adding to our ranks and all, right? So it's a GOOD thing, yeah, it's a GOOD thing. I'm in my safe place now... I'm in my safe place now... where's my coloring book and crayons and comfort pets? Who took 'em?!?!?! I WANT MY SAFE PLACE BACK AND I WANT IT NOWWWWW!!! wahahaha!!!!

Sarcasm, of course, for any of you kinda slow on the uptake. Agenda-driven snowflake pajama kids seem (I said SEEM) to be running the DEC now. Heh, with Prince Andrew doing all he can to surreptitiously confiscate all guns, hunters might not have any other way to take game EXCEPT by trapping sooner than later. Imagine him as president...

[paintedpaw]

Having spent over twenty years in the Sportsman Ed program and been one of the first instructors when it became mandatory, and having assisted in writing the manual, over the years I have seen many changes (none good) to the program. It got to be absurd, with some of these people justifying their jobs in Albany without knowing a d@mn thing about trapping.It got to the point where I said enough.
Our illustrious governor claims to be Sportsmen friendly, getting his puss in every photo op, but the middle of the night Safe Act showed his true colors. If Cuomo really wanted to accomplish something he could start by throwing out the dead wood in DEC's Albany office, starting with the Commissioner.
There are some good employees around the state along with others that kiss butt and others that come up with stupid regs to justify their jobs. I would like to know who is reading all of those logbooks or checking the teeth on all of those skulls.I could go on and on.
Thankfully, Cuomo will never be President, but it looks like we are stuck with him; the down staters re elect him every time and the Republicans never put up a good candidate to beat him. Pardon me while I puke!

[coni]

Well said my friend

[austin]

The only constant in life is change. If we're self-honest, there are lots of reasons why recreational trapping here in NY and across the country is evolving. And DNR treatment of it as well.

First, numbers count. Size matters. How many trapping licenses are sold compared to fishing and big game? A small fraction? Of course the cash-strapped, penny pinching DNRs will look to streamline any way possible from pressure to do so. And yes, there are certainly unofficial anti-trapping factions among a lot of DNR officials. But monetary policy plays a bigger role, imo.

Fur trapping will live and die by fur market prices. Always has. Every one of us got started trapping because we thought we could make some money at it, at the time. And many of us did. We stayed in the game for other reasons but let's be honest, fur prices brought us in. Raccoon and muskrats were the backbone of trapping. Now prices and/or populations (or both) have collapsed. Today's hook for new trappers starting is canines, particularly coyotes made popular by outdoor cable tv shows where celebrity deer hunters focus on the need for predator control. To some degree coyotes are now the popular bragging rights species whereas before it was others. But coyote trapping alone will not attract AND keep new trappers in the game for years and decades ahead. Fur prices, and critters that are simple to catch in numbers. That is the backbone of recreational trapping.

Diehards like Walleyed catch a few hundred muskrats that net-profit (after all costs including time) less than $2,000 for an entire season effort? You ain't gonna attract many kids and keep them in this game for that. Those are cookie jar numbers. Good luck pulling modern youths away from playing Fortnight with their friends in exchange for the physical exhaustion for that.

Add the facts that modern generations DO NOT read anything in print, if it's not available by phone they won't / don't see it. Modern generations DO NOT join groups, organizations or associations that require multiple physical meetings. That concept is completely foreign to them and genre' is dead. New trappers don't care whether their "training" is eight hours, four hours, one hour or simple written test. They already plan on Google and YouTube videos for the entirety of their knowledge, be that right or wrong.

Those are just unemotional facts of life, circa 2018. What we'd prefer and what we long for from the past have nothing to do with reality. Modern society has moved away from living off the land. Property access is tougher now than ever, fur prices adjusted for inflation are lowest in history. Muskrat populations barely exist and raccoon are spotty. Nothing in life continues on a straight path. imo the entire crux of recreational trapping's future centers upon wild fur prices. Best thing all of us can possibly do is a better job of not flooding future markets with low-grade junk furs. Learn to put-up and market quality, recycle low grades and junk back into the environment and keep it out of the sales process. If wild fur prices remain in the dumpster like $10 red fox, $5 coon, $4 muskrats and beaver by the pound only (!) are right now, everything else is irrelevant and moot.

[trappermac]

Is there a chance its being done due to the low number of trapper training courses available for aspiring trappers? Lack of instructors? Unable to meet the demand?

If I go to the DEC site to look for classes near me there are currently 3 classes within 50 miles from now until sept. If I roll out to 200 miles within my address there are a whopping 7 classes between now and trapping season.

Perform the same search for hunting and there are 17 classes within 50 miles, over 50 within 200.

Maybe more of us need to voulunteer to become instructors to increase class availability? Just a thought.

[walleyed]

Jun 13, 2018 4:29:12 GMT -5 austin said:

The only constant in life is change. If we're self-honest, there are lots of reasons why recreational trapping here in NY and across the country is evolving. And DNR treatment of it as well.

First, numbers count. Size matters. How many trapping licenses are sold compared to fishing and big game? A small fraction? Of course the cash-strapped, penny pinching DNRs will look to streamline any way possible from pressure to do so. And yes, there are certainly unofficial anti-trapping factions among a lot of DNR officials. But monetary policy plays a bigger role, imo.

Fur trapping will live and die by fur market prices. Always has. Every one of us got started trapping because we thought we could make some money at it, at the time. And many of us did. We stayed in the game for other reasons but let's be honest, fur prices brought us in. Raccoon and muskrats were the backbone of trapping. Now prices and/or populations (or both) have collapsed. Today's hook for new trappers starting is canines, particularly coyotes made popular by outdoor cable tv shows where celebrity deer hunters focus on the need for predator control. To some degree coyotes are now the popular bragging rights species whereas before it was others. But coyote trapping alone will not attract AND keep new trappers in the game for years and decades ahead. Fur prices, and critters that are simple to catch in numbers. That is the backbone of recreational trapping.

Diehards like Walleyed catch a few hundred muskrats that net-profit (after all costs including time) less than $2,000 for an entire season effort? You ain't gonna attract many kids and keep them in this game for that. Those are cookie jar numbers. Good luck pulling modern youths away from playing Fortnight with their friends in exchange for the physical exhaustion for that.

Add the facts that modern generations DO NOT read anything in print, if it's not available by phone they won't / don't see it. Modern generations DO NOT join groups, organizations or associations that require multiple physical meetings. That concept is completely foreign to them and genre' is dead. New trappers don't care whether their "training" is eight hours, four hours, one hour or simple written test. They already plan on Google and YouTube videos for the entirety of their knowledge, be that right or wrong.

Those are just unemotional facts of life, circa 2018. What we'd prefer and what we long for from the past have nothing to do with reality. Modern society has moved away from living off the land. Property access is tougher now than ever, fur prices adjusted for inflation are lowest in history. Muskrat populations barely exist and raccoon are spotty. Nothing in life continues on a straight path. imo the entire crux of recreational trapping's future centers upon wild fur prices. Best thing all of us can possibly do is a better job of not flooding future markets with low-grade junk furs. Learn to put-up and market quality, recycle low grades and junk back into the environment and keep it out of the sales process. If wild fur prices remain in the dumpster like $10 red fox, $5 coon, $4 muskrats and beaver by the pound only (!) are right now, everything else is irrelevant and moot.

=TRANSLATION=

Not Enough Trappers Out There To Bilk So Baldy Must Find Another More Profitable Scam. LOL

w

[paintedpaw]

As for me, I've never made big money at trapping. I started when I was 13 with muskrats and we caught them by the hundreds. I have always loved the challenge and anticipation as well as admiring the fur, once caught. Expenses , especially gas, usually outweighs fur sold. I have never been it for the money, but for the love of the game.
I have had two partners in my life; both have gone on to their rewards, and most of my life I have been a lone wolf.
Having been involved with the trapping organizations I have made some great friendships on the plus side, but the continual drama leaves a sour feeling in my stomache. Dealing with DEC is something else. How many meetings have I attended, how many commissioners have come and gone and biologists too. Some have been great and others don't know squat. My conclusion is that yes men rule the day and play the political game. Things like the very twisted Cornell/DEC surveys used against us, closed otter seasons for decades, jackass fisher and bobcat seasons, "trophy" rather prime governing seasons, feeding contaminated great lakes salmon to otters destined for western reintroduction, the brilliant reintroduction of lynx by that Syracuse professor, log books, skull submissions, threats if you don't turn in your logbook, and hounding if you don't return a survey, the threat to mandate padded traps statewide, and the ignoring of advice from experienced trappers, the trigger testing at Hales creek and the trigger requirements that followed, as well as one tech sneaking around checking on compliance, peeking over bridges for otter sign by people that would not know an otter toilet from a moose turd. I could go on and on.
Asa I said, there are a few good biologists out there, however we have some real doosies all the way up to the commissioner and Governor. This trapper Ed thing is just one more reason why I've turned sour. That's all that I have to say (for now).

[austin]

Jun 13, 2018 7:31:02 GMT -5 walleyed said:

Jun 13, 2018 4:29:12 GMT -5 austin said:

The only constant in life is change. If we're self-honest, there are lots of reasons why recreational trapping here in NY and across the country is evolving. And DNR treatment of it as well.

First, numbers count. Size matters. How many trapping licenses are sold compared to fishing and big game? A small fraction? Of course the cash-strapped, penny pinching DNRs will look to streamline any way possible from pressure to do so. And yes, there are certainly unofficial anti-trapping factions among a lot of DNR officials. But monetary policy plays a bigger role, imo.

Fur trapping will live and die by fur market prices. Always has. Every one of us got started trapping because we thought we could make some money at it, at the time. And many of us did. We stayed in the game for other reasons but let's be honest, fur prices brought us in. Raccoon and muskrats were the backbone of trapping. Now prices and/or populations (or both) have collapsed. Today's hook for new trappers starting is canines, particularly coyotes made popular by outdoor cable tv shows where celebrity deer hunters focus on the need for predator control. To some degree coyotes are now the popular bragging rights species whereas before it was others. But coyote trapping alone will not attract AND keep new trappers in the game for years and decades ahead. Fur prices, and critters that are simple to catch in numbers. That is the backbone of recreational trapping.

Diehards like Walleyed catch a few hundred muskrats that net-profit (after all costs including time) less than $2,000 for an entire season effort? You ain't gonna attract many kids and keep them in this game for that. Those are cookie jar numbers. Good luck pulling modern youths away from playing Fortnight with their friends in exchange for the physical exhaustion for that.

Add the facts that modern generations DO NOT read anything in print, if it's not available by phone they won't / don't see it. Modern generations DO NOT join groups, organizations or associations that require multiple physical meetings. That concept is completely foreign to them and genre' is dead. New trappers don't care whether their "training" is eight hours, four hours, one hour or simple written test. They already plan on Google and YouTube videos for the entirety of their knowledge, be that right or wrong.

Those are just unemotional facts of life, circa 2018. What we'd prefer and what we long for from the past have nothing to do with reality. Modern society has moved away from living off the land. Property access is tougher now than ever, fur prices adjusted for inflation are lowest in history. Muskrat populations barely exist and raccoon are spotty. Nothing in life continues on a straight path. imo the entire crux of recreational trapping's future centers upon wild fur prices. Best thing all of us can possibly do is a better job of not flooding future markets with low-grade junk furs. Learn to put-up and market quality, recycle low grades and junk back into the environment and keep it out of the sales process. If wild fur prices remain in the dumpster like $10 red fox, $5 coon, $4 muskrats and beaver by the pound only (!) are right now, everything else is irrelevant and moot.

=TRANSLATION=

Not Enough Trappers Out There To Bilk So Baldy Must Find Another More Profitable Scam. LOL

w

no Bob, that is an honest assessment of the world in America today. But you're so busy being an immature a**(hat) that you cannot continue an adult conversation. So immature.

[austin]

Jun 13, 2018 17:13:50 GMT -5 paintedpaw said:

As for me, I've never made big money at trapping. I started when I was 13 with muskrats and we caught them by the hundreds. I have always loved the challenge and anticipation as well as admiring the fur, once caught. Expenses , especially gas, usually outweighs fur sold. I have never been it for the money, but for the love of the game.
I have had two partners in my life; both have gone on to their rewards, and most of my life I have been a lone wolf.
Having been involved with the trapping organizations I have made some great friendships on the plus side, but the continual drama leaves a sour feeling in my stomache. Dealing with DEC is something else. How many meetings have I attended, how many commissioners have come and gone and biologists too. Some have been great and others don't know squat. My conclusion is that yes men rule the day and play the political game. Things like the very twisted Cornell/DEC surveys used against us, closed otter seasons for decades, jackass fisher and bobcat seasons, "trophy" rather prime governing seasons, feeding contaminated great lakes salmon to otters destined for western reintroduction, the brilliant reintroduction of lynx by that Syracuse professor, log books, skull submissions, threats if you don't turn in your logbook, and hounding if you don't return a survey, the threat to mandate padded traps statewide, and the ignoring of advice from experienced trappers, the trigger testing at Hales creek and the trigger requirements that followed, as well as one tech sneaking around checking on compliance, peeking over bridges for otter sign by people that would not know an otter toilet from a moose turd. I could go on and on.
Asa I said, there are a few good biologists out there, however we have some real doosies all the way up to the commissioner and Governor. This trapper Ed thing is just one more reason why I've turned sour. That's all that I have to say (for now).

Agreed on all counts. 1,000%

my point was this: how many young boys & girls grow up on farms, out in the country and spend their spare time in the woods and water like us? How many country kids at fur sales do we see hauling in arm loads of  muskrats and raccoon pelts to be sold, beaming smiles across their faces? Darn few. And fewer all the time.

Friends who attended the PA convention report that it was mostly an older crowd, which of course is the case at every trapper's convention. A mostly older crowd. That gets older every day. metoo.

[walleyed]

Jun 14, 2018 5:45:22 GMT -5 austin said:

]no Bob, that is an honest assessment of the world in America today. But you're so busy being an immature a**(hat) that you cannot continue an adult conversation. So immature.

Well,

There's a pot calling the kettle black Moment If ever I saw one !!

Maybe We'll Read More About It In The United Trappers E-Zine !! LOL

w

[herm]

I think the DEC should do all the training classes. If an ECO is in uniform when he or she is at a training class they are getting payed. Why should someone else do the same thing for free?

[walleyed]

Jun 14, 2018 18:29:56 GMT -5 herm said:

I think the DEC should do all the training classes. If an ECO is in uniform when he or she is at a training class they are getting payed. Why should someone else do the same thing for free?

Yeah Herm.

But who would show those ECO's How to trap, and how to interpret the trapping laws ? LOL

w

[austin]

Jun 14, 2018 6:36:05 GMT -5 walleyed said:

Jun 14, 2018 5:45:22 GMT -5 austin said:

]no Bob, that is an honest assessment of the world in America today. But you're so busy being an immature a**(hat) that you cannot continue an adult conversation. So immature.

Well,

There's a pot calling the kettle black Moment If ever I saw one !!

Maybe We'll Read More About It In The United Trappers E-Zine !! LOL

w

Are you still referring to the attempt at modernizing a trapping group that raised $900 gross and spent $800+ in the process? Back in 2013? This is mid-2018 now, Tubby. We are five years past that. Well, obviously not you. Because you are stuck in a time warp. But do go on and jab that every single chance you get in every message board you pollute. I'll bring it up with you to discuss in person when I see you at Camp Flatiron in Herkimer, soon

[walleyed]

Jun 16, 2018 4:01:16 GMT -5 austin said:

Jun 14, 2018 6:36:05 GMT -5 walleyed said:

Well,

There's a pot calling the kettle black Moment If ever I saw one !!

Maybe We'll Read More About It In The United Trappers E-Zine !! LOL

w

Are you still referring to the attempt at modernizing a trapping group that raised $900 gross and spent $800+ in the process? Back in 2013? This is mid-2018 now, Tubby. We are five years past that. Well, obviously not you. Because you are stuck in a time warp. But do go on and jab that every single chance you get in every message board you pollute. I'll bring it up with you to discuss in person when I see you at Camp Flatiron in Herkimer, soon

Bring Your Lunch !!! LMAO !!!

w

[austin]

"Bring Your Lunch !!! LMAO !!! w"

pfft... a light snack ahead of time would be way more than enough

It's annoying as he(ck) when every time I try to have a real, serious, adult conversation you insist on polluting it with snarky drivel. Recreational trapping is in serious danger of going extinct and that worries me. Doing the same archaic stuff we've always done in the past will be part of that failure. Veteran trappers need to all wake up, realize the old days are gone and old ways are not the future path. I don't have all the answers, but the problems aren't hard to see with open eyes.

As for your endless "baldy" and "united trappers" quips everywhere, grow up. Those don't bother me personally. I'd shave my head tomorrow and not care either way. Why you insist on referring to me inside every other post across various message boards (plural) is what I'd like to know. And I'll hit you up about that in Herkimer.

I misjudged the trapper's world from several crucial angles when I considered UT and truth is was something I tried to force in order to fill a void in my life. At that time I was looking for something meaningful to do in the trapping world. I'm no longer interested in anything related to trapping other than my own fur trapping.

This October when I running water lines in the north country, if I see you struggling to move your big canoe up umpteen flights of stairs at the Salmon River bridge over Rt 3, I'll still stop and help you portage it up that concrete maze like I did the last time. Because that's what sportsmen do. "Tubby" lol

[walleyed]

Jun 17, 2018 5:27:59 GMT -5 austin said:

if I see you struggling to move your big canoe up umpteen flights

of stairs at the Salmon River bridge over Rt 3, I'll still stop and help you portage it up that

concrete maze like I did the last time. Because that's what sportsmen do. "Tubby"

Tubby ?

Is That The Best You Can Do ?

I'll Drag My Own Canoe Thank You.

I'd Like To Make Sure I Can Hold On To My Wallet. LMAO !!

w

[beaverblaster]

I laugh at you guys you argue to a point of name calling as usual! As far as fact Austin is more in tune with the times of modern times then big bob will ever be. Sorry to say but our children are being brain washed by the liberal agendas in our schools kids are told to accept gays, have thistransgenders and guns are really bad we are on a coarse of socialism being the kids can't even wipe there own butts they will rewrite the constitution make guns illegal and live off the system being they have been coddled their entire life and they really hate going outside from being told that someone might do bodily harm to them if they go outside alone or the sun will give them cancer. I work with kids everyday I see it and it's not good. I lurck I watch and I laugh this board is so out of touch it isn't funny you need to all get with the program and get facebook (which is now for the old folks to use) snap chat or Instagram and you might learn something about kids and why the DEC might be looking to other avenues for the cash cow they have tried every avenue there is to boost sales but I hate to say it hunting and trapping is going to be a lost art sooner then you think boys things are changing and you have no idea how fast it is happening then you have this on Albany tv news
youtu.be/yhfSsvSfvCM

[Dave Morse]

Are you ok? You don't sound well. Plenty of young hunters and trappers here. I'm a dinosaur, I tried the facebook and its not for me. A few trapping forums is all I care to know of the internet.

[paintedpaw]

Boy has this thread departed from the original subject! That said I am not about to get in between Bob and Austin, both of them I consider friends. I will state
that both put up large numbers of rats; the truth is that I was catching rats when those men were in diapers. Moving to the Adirondacks over 50 years ago there just are not the numbers any where close to what these guys catch. So I will open a new question: is it better to set on the bottom or on the top for rats?Bait or blind? Now you two can argue about that instead of calling each other names., not demanding their rights.
As for the previous comments I do have to agree with some comments. America is not the same place as when I grew up. We treated people with respect. Queers stuck to themselves. Church elders today debate marrying them in the church. Don't they read the Bible? Women openly murder unborn children as a matter of convenience or birth control, libertards are constantly trying to grab our guns, and kids are all walking around with their necks bent looking at their cell phones. How many can do basic math without a calculator?
Mark my words, social media will be the downfall of America. Think you can say anything. Nothing worse than tweeting, facebook, or instagram.

[trappermac]

you forgot to say..."and stay off my lawn!!"

[paintedpaw]

AND STAY OFF MY LAWN

The Old Grouch

[Marshrat]

Where was the NYSTA when this change was made by the DEC?