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Post by stewa107 on May 14, 2015 13:20:53 GMT -5
I agree, I have only caught a small few amount of fisher before mid November in 22 years of trapping. The best time I have had was the last 2 weeks of season.
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Post by brushwolf64 on May 14, 2015 16:11:49 GMT -5
Im guessing they are manipulating the info. We tend to catch our fisher here earlier and do so from Nov 1st until the southern gun season starts. I know many guys who catch a few fisher coon trapping from the opener. Now I understand you guys up north catch them later and believe that to be true. I wonder if they are not looking at the southern part of the state and using that as there basis for the statement in question ? We seem to have a higher population and if you perceive the first 2 week catch as an across the board number there statement might be true.
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Post by papabear on May 14, 2015 17:34:18 GMT -5
Dear Brother Brushwolf, The entire northern zone fisher season runs concurrent from opening day to closing day with the northern zone deer gun season. There are not many days when I'm out on the line that I don't hear rifle shots somewhere. I believe as soon as the shooting starts and the deer camps are occupied the fisher start avoiding those areas and go to more remote areas . I'm not completely convinced our fisher population has declined, but I do think they migrate to remote or more secluded areas when deer hunting activities start. Also I would consider it more a shift of the population to areas of sustainable habitat rather than a decline of the population. After the southern gun season opens the north woods starts to quiet down some and about a week or so later the fishers normal travel routines start to resume. I say this because I know where there are several excellent fisher runs near some deer camps that are void of any fisher activity when the hunters are in their camps during the course of the deer season. Years ago when the fisher season ran beyond the deer season it was nothing to catch 5 or 6 fisher at these locations. Now the Adirondack fisher season closes at the time fisher trapping starts to get productive! Many of the areas I trap fisher now are areas I frequent when I'm out hare hunting and see fisher tracks in the snow on a regular basis. We Adirondack fisher trappers also have to contend with fisher that "hole up" on a wounded deer or other lost game shot by deer hunters which cuts down the chances that those fisher ever come in contact with our sets. As it stands Adirondack fisher trappers already face less than an ideal situation to trap for fisher, now DEC wants to impede our efforts even further, and to add insult to injury they want to mandate we document our efforts. I fear the resulting data will be used as leverage against us to eventually impose more sanctions and more restrictive regulations to the point DEC deems in necessary to warrant permanent fisher season closure in the Adirondacks. NOTHING good will result from the "proposed Fisher plan". Regards
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Post by mikemason on May 14, 2015 19:36:11 GMT -5
Are choices are to get legislators involved, petition the commish or article 78 their process.The mute swan reg was halted
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Post by hardwoodcharlie on May 15, 2015 19:18:54 GMT -5
I'm really not sure who these commit periods are intended for, but they have made it very clear that our comments are not needed before their final decisions are made..
it truly appears the flat landers will be holding our out come in their hands ,not only is this whoe fisher plan very mind boggling it's Very sad deal indeed!!
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Post by slyfox74 on May 16, 2015 20:05:51 GMT -5
I'll submit a well written comment, as I did before. It will fall on deaf ears, as it did before. Trappers are viewed as the fringe subculture of the population. We are thought of as uneducated, lower SES, heartless and backwards in our ways. That is the bold faced generalizations that are made of fur trappers. I am outraged every time I hear it and equally outraged every time I see a fellow trapper make that generalization justified. That's why I say we need to become educated, and we need our children, the next generation of trappers, to become educated. The animal rights/anti fur movement has made a solid name for themselves through advertising campaigns and swaying public opinion against us. We as trappers, specifically NYSTA and the smaller sub chapters need to advertise, become active, socially acceptable members of society. We need to further our agenda through social interactions that are positive and admirable. The deck is stacked against us folks. We are disliked. look around. Who's in our corner? Who, that society respects, is fighting for us? The only people in positions of power, that stand up for our rights do so reluctantly and simply because they have to. We are losing this battle. We've lost Pat Arnold, who was very well spoken, likable and knew how to get through to people. Is there a replacement? John Rockwood can't do it alone and how long will he be able to or interested in fighting for us? We need active, educated members that will sacrifice time as Mr. Rockwood and Pat Arnold have done. We need help from powerful people. The types of people who won't hang out with dirty, uneducated, people who can't properly construct a sentence or convey a thought. Any ideas?
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Post by forestboy on May 28, 2015 19:34:20 GMT -5
The DEC should go back and strike this passage from the Trapper Education Manual:
"Wildlife Management Principles
Wise use of abundant natural resources includes the use of a harvestable surplus, coupled with the conservation of the basic resource. The goal of furbearer management is to provide the maximum harvestable surplus consistent with other factors such as habitat quality and availability, disease risks, wildlife damage, reproductive biology and public tolerance for the species. The best available knowledge of ecology, behavior, current populations and habitat conditions is integrated into management plans using the principles of wildlife management."
Replace it with:
"Wildlife Management Principles
Cherry pick your studies and don't use the studies from your home state if they do not support your agenda."
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on May 29, 2015 5:30:29 GMT -5
We are losing this battle. We've lost Pat Arnold, who was very well spoken, likable and knew how to get through to people. Is there a replacement? John Rockwood can't do it alone and how long will he be able to or interested in fighting for us? We need active, educated members that will sacrifice time as Mr. Rockwood and Pat Arnold have done. We need help from powerful people. The types of people who won't hang out with dirty, uneducated, people who can't properly construct a sentence or convey a thought. Any ideas? Yes, there are changes possible. But first we have to overcome this cold, hard truth: most of the leadership in ALL trapping groups are middle-aged men to old men who either volunteer or are paid too little for all that they do. That's how it has been for a long time, and the vast majority of trappers out there expect this to continue forever on their behalf. It won't Sooner than late on this status quo course of inaction, state and national trapper associations will all run out of money and active leadership. That is an absolute certainty. All association in general along with NYSTA in particular need more money, more money, more money, and more active participants across the board. Without that infusion of much more money and new talent to carry the load, trapping as we've known it is doomed. Now that we all agree and understand the core problem, what is everyone willing to do about that? |
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Post by papabear on May 29, 2015 7:09:27 GMT -5
"Now that we all agree and understand the core problem, what is everyone willing to do about that?" austinp
retain LAWYERS, own GUNS, & raise MONEY
Regards
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on May 29, 2015 7:24:28 GMT -5
We all have guns, we need money to retain lawyers and/or run a successful state organization into the future. Lawyers cost money, lobbyist cost money and executive positions will cost money in the future. Like it or not, the next generation coming up now will not volunteer for leadership positions that demand time & expense out of pocket.
For any/all state trapper organizations and all national organizations to continue on, to grow and to represent trappers everywhere, a LOT more money needs to flow in from somewhere. While it may be therapeutic for us to vent frustrations in our little message board here, the reality is it accomplishes absolutely nothing else.
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wcs
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Post by wcs on May 29, 2015 8:21:53 GMT -5
I have an idea that comes from our friends in Ontario. I understand that trapping in Canada is different due to the registered trap lines and such, but they have a real and definitive voice within the province government. Every trapper in Ontario that purchases a trapping license is mandated to belong to their Ontario trappers association. No law is passed regarding trapping in Ontario without the "blessing" of the association. They have their share of problems and disagreements with the government, but they always have a compromise that both sides find acceptable.
I know many will say that we need less government intrusion in our lives, and I feel the same way. That being said, if our state has lost complete regard for Nysta and JTI, what is our choice? Where do we go from here? I would think 10,000+ members of NYSTA would be more of a eye opener for the DECthan anything else. The $ generated would certainly enable us to fight back. A minimum basic enrollment in NYSTA when u buy your trappers license. Controversial? Yes. But it works, just ask our friends to the north.
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Post by whartonrattrapper on May 29, 2015 8:28:40 GMT -5
I have an idea that comes from our friends in Ontario. I understand that trapping in Canada is different due to the registered trap lines and such, but they have a real and definitive voice within the province government. Every trapper in Ontario that purchases a trapping license is mandated to belong to their Ontario trappers association. No law is passed regarding trapping in Ontario without the "blessing" of the association. They have their share of problems and disagreements with the government, but they always have a compromise that both sides find acceptable. I know many will say that we need less government intrusion in our lives, and I feel the same way. That being said, if our state has lost complete regard for Nysta and JTI, what is our choice? Where do we go from here? I would think 10,000+ members of NYSTA would be more of a eye opener for the DECthan anything else. The $ generated would certainly enable us to fight back. A minimum basic enrollment in NYSTA when u buy your trappers license. Controversial? Yes. But it works, just ask our friends to the north. I agree....last time this was brought up it didn't go over very well though. lol nytrappers.proboards.com/thread/29920/crazy-idea-license-membership |
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Post by papabear on May 29, 2015 9:30:29 GMT -5
Dear Mr. Austinp, Friend, I could not agree more! The biggest hurdle I encounter when talking with a good percentage of trappers is what I call the "ostrich syndrome", no offence to anybody, but these fellas think by doing nothing that these issues will just simply go away. Some get mad, but do nothing else, not even as much a write a letter. I always ask if they belong to NYSTA, some do and some don't. Pressing the ones who don't for a reason why results in all kinds of stupid answers, but the one that takes the cake is the one given by my neighbor (who does fairly well trapping) "I'm not going to waste my money". That mentality convinces me that we cant spend all our time trying to convince them otherwise, we need to concentrate efforts towards ensuring that our trapping heritage remains intact for US and our future generations, with or without their help.
I have for a long time kept track of issues and responded when appropriate. I donate as much as I can afford and that's all I would expect of other trappers. But the time has come when I am no longer willing to wait for or rely on others to do my bidding when it comes to guaranteeing my trapping "RIGHTS" (DEC calls it a privilege). As you know a few years ago we lost the un-restricted use of 220 body grips on land (because of a couple careless individuals actions), the deal was cut and struck before most of us even knew what happened. I was extremely pissed then and it still irritates me to this day! That issue was my motivator, and this fisher issue is my activator.
Mr. Austinp, I'm in your corner when it comes to raising funds for NYSTA ....... how, seems to be the hurdle to overcome!
Regards
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Post by slyfox74 on May 29, 2015 18:27:00 GMT -5
There are ways. first and foremost would be membership dues. Increase the organizations membership and you increase the revenue. "OK, how do we increase the membership?". one might ask.
1) Make NYSTA less obscure and more mainstream. Does anyone, hunter or non hunter NOT recognize the trendy little duck head sticker in the back of the windows of hardcore hunters and yuppie wannabee's? It's not only trendy to have one, but in some social circles you BETTER have one. If you were just born a few minutes ago, it's the Ducks Unlimited Logo. It can be found all over the place T-shits, hats, mugs, probably even ladies underwear. Merchandising has made that organization popular. Popularity increases membership, Increased membership increases revenue and PRESTO CHANGO we have a powerhouse organization that is a true force to be reconned with.
2) Aim High. Not to harp on DU (Ducks Unlimited), but that group has some heavy hitters in their membership ranks. The demographic of people that are DU members from a socio-economic standpoint far out weighs that of NYSTA. How about the education level of members of both groups? Anyone want to guess? (chirp - chirp go the crickets) . How about raising some money and sending a young promising trapper to college every year? How about infusing our ranks with learned, well spoken members?
3) Winning of hearts and minds. A rule of thumb...we are the most hated and misunderstood group in the woods! PERIOD end of story. Change that. Raise more money do some charitable community services, clean a highway, purchase a tract of land, clean it up and open it to public use. Pitch in and build a park. Help the Wounded Warriors, the list of beneficial activities is never ending, but our MAINSTREAM LOGO needs to be plastered wherever we go and whatever we do.
4) Sound offense... Think in your head of the trappers biggest Nemesis. If you think it's a state or federal governmental body you're wrong. The Nemesis of ALL trappers is one well funded organization who's name or acronym I will not mention. But folks believe me when I tell you the money they have behind them would shock you senseless. What's another $200 donation on top of the MILLIONS they already receive? Make out a monetary donation of, oh say $200 or there abouts. From NYSTA. make sure it's deposited and cleared and "leak" it to the mainstream press. Be ready for an interview, have a nice statement all prepared, but expose them for the hypocrites that the are. How could they take money from the people they fight against? and all that. NYSTA will get lots of press over that. Additionally, learn their membership it's a long list. Boycott any product, service or entertainment provided by any member of said organization.
5) Team up with another organization, Co-operative advertising is cost efficiant and affective. Pair us up with a well established reputable group and suddenly it's a new world of membership possibilities.
In summary. creative trendy marketing, wise spending of funds, and increase quality membership will win this war for us. Nothing less that full commitment on the part of trappers
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Post by forestboy on Jun 1, 2015 18:52:11 GMT -5
I am admittedly new to trapping, only been doing it since 2011. I trapped North Carolina, New York, California, NY & California, and NY.
I helped Mercer Lawing with conventioning for Camtrip Cages. I attended conventions in Arizona twice, the Southwest Fur Harvesters Rondy twice, and went to the Nevada Trapping Associations fur sale in Fallon, Nevada twice.I attended the Pennsylvania convention and the NY convention last year.
In my opinion, the Nevada Trappers Association promotes trapping the best. They also have a revenue stream from their cat sale. With it they hired a lobbyist(A Past President of the Association, you might have heard of him, Joel Blakeslee) to fight for their rights in the legislature. The Trappers have the money, they teamed up with the other sportsmans groups that don't necessarily have the $ but they have the numbers that the politicians pay attention to. It is a state version of the USSA. With the membership numbers from the various sportsman groups(RMEF, Quail Unlimited, Desert Bighorn Society, Varmint Hunters, etc.) and the cash they raise from the fur sale they are on the offensive to get a constitutional amendment to guarantee Hunting, Fishing and TRAPPING. They are defending against the anti's every year, but you cannot win on defense.
Do not take this the wrong way, as a recent return to NY, these are some of the challenges I see:
In NY there is a divided effort by all the local/county associations. Guys will join an association but it may not be the state association. Money and time that the state association could use to fight gets spent on something for the local associations.
NYSTA does not have a Facebook page. This is a powerful free tool. You make a page and people "like" it. When you make a post it shows up in their news feed. The more people that interact with the post, the more people it hits their feed. This gets the message right out to them, they do not have to go to the page to see it. It is a great way to get the message out to people.
I am a trapper education instructor for NY. All I have heard at the classes, was how hard it is to get a course. Also how hard it was to find good instructors that actually show up to teach(this from the ECO's that I taught with).
Is there a NYSTA fur sale that a percentage goes to the association? If yes, where and when? If not, why not?
Does NYSTA have a relationship with the other sportsman groups in NY(Gun owner groups as well)? Do we assist them when legislation threatens their interests and do they come out to help us on ours? Why not?
Like it or not we are going to have to re-examine our relationship with the DEC higher ups. They are no friend to trappers. We are ignored and marginalized. Bureaucrats only pay attention to lawsuits. We are going to need to get their attention, a lawsuit would probably be the quickest way.
I would be willing to run a Facebook page for the NYSTA.
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Post by mrlongbeard1 on Jun 2, 2015 23:40:08 GMT -5
From one of the premier dept in the country to this. What a shame!!! Hell this state has millions to spend on the Gov. new justice center but he can't even fix the bridges..All smoke and mirrors. What BS
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Jun 3, 2015 5:12:23 GMT -5
I would be willing to run a Facebook page for the NYSTA. that would be powerful... I'd help admin if desired. like it or not, FB is the primary channel to reach people today. For the trappers that resist having a FB, that's their personal choice. Doesn't change the fact that practically all outdoorsman are on FB and use it as the breaking news = instant message center of information. |
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Post by redknot on Jun 3, 2015 9:26:38 GMT -5
Sly, I am not sure how this would help...
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Post by slyfox74 on Jun 3, 2015 11:43:21 GMT -5
As a short term solution, you are correct. This wouldn't help at all. But what about the next generation of trappers? I'm sure that by sending kids to college to be educated would produce better paid, and educated trappers to fill our ranks. With more money and better education, the new trappers would be more able to deal with the upcoming legislation that will surely haunt us. Additionally, by setting up a legitimate scholarship fund we would be demonstrating that we as trappers value education and progress. That was a good question, and my suggestion was a bit outside the box. But I still think the payoffs would come in future generations.
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Post by redknot on Jun 3, 2015 13:00:43 GMT -5
Well Sly, I don't necessarily see it as an issue, but some of these educated young people could end up becoming wildlife biologists...
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Post by forestboy on Jun 4, 2015 12:11:08 GMT -5
I would be willing to run a Facebook page for the NYSTA. that would be powerful... I'd help admin if desired. like it or not, FB is the primary channel to reach people today. For the trappers that resist having a FB, that's their personal choice. Doesn't change the fact that practically all outdoorsman are on FB and use it as the breaking news = instant message center of information. The youth of today are on Facebook. They are our future, without getting new blood involved we will lose trapping.... |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2015 5:29:19 GMT -5
I suggested a NYSTA Facebook page last August. Within that post contained other opinions on NYSTA. So I felt the need to get more involved so I started attending the BOD meetings, then became a County Rep. With that exposure I would strongly suggest any official NYSTA Facebook ventures be put on hold until other internal matters are addressed first. When NYSTA is ready, a Page is the way to go IMO. Several other states already run Pages and are good sources of gauging what is going on in those States, like political movements, events, etc. A NYSTA group could be done but it will take A LOT of oversight. NY currently has three Facebook groups that I know of. Two of them, NY Trappers and NY Upstate Trappers have been around for about a year or so. They are fun to be a part of. Then we have Concerned Trappers of New York. I sent a request to be approved but was denied. I hope it finds success in the defense of trapping in NY. Anyway, it would be nice to have one central Facebook source of information though. NYSTA should be and I hope one day will be the driving force behind it. Once we tackle Facebook. We have Twitter. Which I would say kids use more than Facebook hands down. At least with the kids I'm around.
Mike
PS. There is a Pat Arnold Youth Trapping Camps Facebook page that I started for the upcoming Youth Camps. It's been around since February but it only has 42 followers. Granted there is too much going on yet but why wait. Click Like and be ready. The kids are coming lets support them on Facebook as well.
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Post by papabear on Jun 17, 2015 7:59:14 GMT -5
ttt
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Post by bobsheedy on Jun 19, 2015 8:00:35 GMT -5
The comment period is drawing to a close. I hope everyone has contacted the DEC with their comments. I hope this is mentioned at your local club meetings also.
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Post by nyrat on Jun 19, 2015 20:41:49 GMT -5
i herd today that the issue is dead because of the 330 rider and others anybody eles hearing the same no change in regs this year
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