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Post by Diamond#21 on Mar 23, 2015 16:46:53 GMT -5
With all the talk of the weak state association membership numbers vs. licensed trappers in the state. What are your thoughts on a program much like snowmobile registration in the state? You would have belong to the state association or your trapping license fee is slightly higher than without membership. Maybe this idea has been tossed around before and I'm just not aware or not legal under current legislation. Maybe someone "in the know" can chime in. I think it could be a win win in my opinion, boasting membership and funds to the association that fight for what we all enjoy.
PS I've have a lot of "good" ideas in the past that my wife and a few others didn't always think were the best................
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Post by squash on Mar 23, 2015 17:41:49 GMT -5
Sounds like something Obama and Cuomo would come up with. It's why I don't register my snowmobile.
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Post by rendezvous on Mar 23, 2015 17:42:46 GMT -5
Yes, this is a Crazy Idea!
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Post by oldtimer on Mar 23, 2015 19:49:17 GMT -5
the trappers do not need anymore goverment control. of any kind.
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Post by redknot on Mar 24, 2015 9:52:21 GMT -5
The NYS Snowmobile Rights and Responsibilities Act was passed with absolutely no regard to tappers and ice anglers who use snow machines in a completely different way than trail riders. We are still working to exclude trappers and anglers from this mistake...
The last thing trappers need to do follow this model...On your idea Diamond, I agree with your wife!!!
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Post by whartonrattrapper on Mar 24, 2015 10:26:25 GMT -5
The NYS Snowmobile Rights and Responsibilities Act was passed with absolutely no regard to tappers and ice anglers who use snow machines in a completely different way than trail riders. We are still working to exclude trappers and anglers from this mistake... The last thing trappers need to do follow this model...On your idea Diamond, I agree with your wife!!! On the other hand, these wrongs will never be righted because, unlike snowmobile clubs, trappers cannot get together as a group. So, maybe it's not such a bad idea. Look at where these snowmobile clubs are today as apposed to before the NYSSRRA was passed. These snowmobile clubs are flush with cash for the most part. For example; Regarding the recent Fisher Management comment period, I made a point to talk with ten trappers in my area about the importance of sending in comments, even printed and handed out copies of NYSTA's points of consideration. As of last night I have talked again with 7 of them. 0 sent in a comment.
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Post by squash on Mar 24, 2015 11:14:56 GMT -5
On the other hand, these wrongs will never be righted because, unlike snowmobile clubs, trappers cannot get together as a group. So, maybe it's not such a bad idea. Look at where these snowmobile clubs are today as apposed to before the NYSSRRA was passed. These snowmobile clubs are flush with cash for the most part. For example; Regarding the recent Fisher Management comment period, I made a point to talk with ten trappers in my area about the importance of sending in comments, even printed and handed out copies of NYSTA's points of consideration. As of last night I have talked again with 7 of them. 0 sent in a comment. Why are you surprised that that no one sent in a comment ? Jesh, 100 million gun owners in the US and 5 million members of the NRA.
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Post by whartonrattrapper on Mar 24, 2015 11:37:11 GMT -5
I'm not surprised, thus why I don't think it's such a bad idea. If I remember correctly the snowmobilers didn't want the tax on their registrations either. Talk to any of them today and they will say it's the best thing that ever happened.
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Post by redknot on Mar 24, 2015 13:21:34 GMT -5
Wharton, okay lets look at where snowmobile clubs are today: The year prior to SRRA, NYS Parks shows 172,000 snowmobiles registered in NY. Since then they can barely get 90,000 sleds registered (even in a good snow year). Club's membership did pick up as a result of SRRA, but it's still the same ten club members doing all the trail maintenance, same as before SRRA. Oh, and this year because clubs are so broke (and they are) the NYS Snowmobile Association is proposing a fee increase for club dues, which will make it more costly for trappers and ice anglers to use snow machines. So, I say again, No Thank You!
Regarding the other more important issue you mention - You are absolutely correct, and it's quite sad.....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 15:15:00 GMT -5
I'll have to run this buy the "President" of United Trappers next time we speak. Interesting concept.
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Post by Diamond#21 on Mar 24, 2015 17:43:00 GMT -5
Ideas are only as good as the discussion that ensues........Thanks all, brought up a couple issues that I didn't give a thought to.
And as far as people not getting involved, here are a couple of statics that I was made aware of locally in the small village were I live;
Village election this month with a population of 530 people..........13 votes Number of parents that attended a Little League meeting over the past year with 150 children registered ...........3
Sad indeed
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Post by herm on Mar 24, 2015 18:32:01 GMT -5
Before when a snowmobile club had permission to have a trail on private land the club members were allowed to ride their snow sleds on the trails. Since you need written permission to operate a motor vehicale on private property, sleders who did not belong to the club were actually braking the law.
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Post by whartonrattrapper on Mar 25, 2015 6:16:43 GMT -5
Redknot, I guess I wasn't aware of the overall picture of all of NYS snowmobile clubs. I know the one's in my area are doing real well. Before SSRA there were very few, if any, clubs and No trail maintenance period.
I do understand your point about people who own a snowmobile for things other than riding trails.
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Post by squash on Mar 25, 2015 6:55:18 GMT -5
I'm not surprised, thus why I don't think it's such a bad idea. If I remember correctly the snowmobilers didn't want the tax on their registrations either. Talk to any of them today and they will say it's the best thing that ever happened. Cuomo just announced 4.5 million tax dollars to NY snowmobile Clubs. Why wouldn't snowmobilers be happy ? Spend $45 and get access to privateland and get to ride hundreds of miles of groomed trails from bar room to bar room, at landowners and taxpayers expense. Forcing me to become a member in order to purchase a trapping lic. is a bad of idea as Obamacare.
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Post by whartonrattrapper on Mar 25, 2015 7:15:45 GMT -5
I'm not surprised, thus why I don't think it's such a bad idea. If I remember correctly the snowmobilers didn't want the tax on their registrations either. Talk to any of them today and they will say it's the best thing that ever happened. Cuomo just announced 4.5 million tax dollars to NY snowmobile Clubs. Why wouldn't snowmobilers be happy ? Spend $45 and get access to privateland and get to ride hundreds of miles of groomed trails from bar room to bar room, at landowners and taxpayers expense. Forcing me to become a member in order to purchase a trapping lic. is a bad of idea as Obamacare. This is exactly my point. Do you think he would be giving them our $4.5 million if there were only a handful of club members? They do the same with rod and gun clubs. Why not trapping? It's a voting block.....politics at it's best. I say if you can't beat em join em.
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Post by chappy on Mar 25, 2015 7:42:45 GMT -5
Can't believe this even became a conversation. Do we really need government to ride the sled, ice fish, or trap?? The government is creating problems so they can create their own solutions to them!
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Post by whartonrattrapper on Mar 25, 2015 8:17:02 GMT -5
Can't believe this even became a conversation. Do we really need government to ride the sled, ice fish, or trap?? The government is creating problems so they can create their own solutions to them! No, we don't need them to, but they're going to anyway. And like it or not, it's the government who will decide if, when, where, what, and how many you can trap.
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Post by anders on Mar 25, 2015 8:43:57 GMT -5
Look back at some history of the state, remember the ATV fund the surcharge on our registrations? I believe there was alittle over 1 million dollars in the fund when the state seized the money and transferred it to the general fund and stated there would be no ATV trail system and offered a 1 year registration in return. If i'm correct I believe they were going to do it or did take some surplus money from the snowmobilers too. You don't want them involved in such things. Andy
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Post by rendezvous on Mar 25, 2015 10:57:33 GMT -5
Ideas are only as good as the discussion that ensues........Thanks all, brought up a couple issues that I didn't give a thought to.
And as far as people not getting involved, here are a couple of statics that I was made aware of locally in the small village were I live;
Village election this month with a population of 530 people..........13 votes Number of parents that attended a Little League meeting over the past year with 150 children registered ...........3
Sad indeed
Sad indeed! Not to start up a hornets nest... My father put my experiences and my success afield ahead of his, I did the same with my son. Today they have to have Youth Seasons largely due to parents that would not sacrifice for their children.
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Post by squash on Mar 25, 2015 11:35:47 GMT -5
Cuomo just announced 4.5 million tax dollars to NY snowmobile Clubs. Why wouldn't snowmobilers be happy ? Spend $45 and get access to privateland and get to ride hundreds of miles of groomed trails from bar room to bar room, at landowners and taxpayers expense. Forcing me to become a member in order to purchase a trapping lic. is a bad of idea as Obamacare. This is exactly my point. Do you think he would be giving them our $4.5 million if there were only a handful of club members? They do the same with rod and gun clubs. Why not trapping? It's a voting block.....politics at it's best. I say if you can't beat em join em Cuomo gives OUR money to snowmobile clubs to buy votes, and to collect sales and other tax revenue off the snowmobile industry, he could give a rats a-- about snowmobilers. Register your ATV and join a ATV club and see how many groomed public trails you can find ? With all due respect, you go ahead and sell out and join them, I will not. The day I have to join a club to be able to buy a trapping lic. Is the day I start trapping without a lic..
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Post by whartonrattrapper on Mar 25, 2015 11:55:18 GMT -5
Cuomo gives OUR money to snowmobile clubs to buy votes, and to collect sales and other tax revenue off the snowmobile industry, he could give a rats a-- about snowmobilers. Register your ATV and join a ATV club and see how many groomed public trails you can find ? With all due respect, you go ahead and sell out and join them, I will not. The day I have to join a club to be able to buy a trapping lic. Is the day I start trapping without a lic..
So I guess you would rather keep giving to them, while getting nothing in return?
Who am I selling out to join?
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Post by squash on Mar 25, 2015 14:48:43 GMT -5
It sounds like you're willing to pander to the politicians so they can look like heros, over regulating us, then giving us back our own money ?
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Post by Diamond#21 on Mar 25, 2015 15:32:16 GMT -5
My thought on this originally was that I was a paying for a association membership and a license anyway so it would be a wash for me. I can see the point on the snowmobile issue with limited used (trapper,ice fisherman) non trail riding. Why pay for something you are not using. But this goes on everyday.... ever use the NYS Thruway? most NYers have. I can tell you that your paying for the Canal System and all the recreational boaters that enjoy the canal over the summer. Why should I be paying for that with my Thruway toll? I don't own a boat! I'm not for more fees, tolls and taxes, but if it would be a direct benefit then its a little easier to swallow.
EVERYONE should belong to a trapping association at least someone has our backs. We are all one bill or vote away from the end of it all anyway, RIGHT? If you won't register your snowmobile, buy a trapping license (because a you won't buy membership) then you won't have a problem setting traps when trapping is banned for good.
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Post by Diamond#21 on Mar 25, 2015 15:47:10 GMT -5
Sad indeed! Not to start up a hornets nest... My father put my experiences and my success afield ahead of his, I did the same with my son. Today they have to have Youth Seasons largely due to parents that would not sacrifice for their children Grown men and women putting themselves before 12 year olds in pursuit of antlers.............SAD INDEED
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Post by squash on Mar 26, 2015 18:55:21 GMT -5
EVERYONE should belong to a trapping association at least someone has our backs. We are all one bill or vote away from the end of it all anyway, RIGHT? If you won't register your snowmobile, buy a trapping license (because a you won't buy membership) then you won't have a problem setting traps when trapping is banned for good I totally disagree with your statement,"everyone should belong to a trapping association etc.." and for good reason. I was a member of the NYSTA years ago, then a NYSTA regional Director , trespassed and set traps on my posted property. I picked up his traps and confronted him, I told him to take his traps and vacate my property, he did. Then returned with two Conservation Officers, the subordinate officer was ready to ticket me for disturbing the traps, but the officer in charge told the other that I had not violated the law tampering with set traps, because it only applies to legally set traps. So in this case, who's back did this NYSTA Regional Director have ? Certainly not mine. I'm soooo tired of people telling me I need to join this or that organization, buy healthcare ins. Where a helmet and seatbelt, register my snowmobile and ATV, even though I don't ride the trails, etc etc etc.. I guess I'm just one of the lemmings that chooses not to go over the cliff, and come hello or high water will go my own way.
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