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Post by johnrockwood on May 12, 2015 20:56:09 GMT -5
Fisher trapping seasons and regulation changes along with other changes to trapping regs are now posted on the New York State Register for public comment. It will be a 45 day comment period. I've only had time to read through things quickly, but it appears that just as we were told at the NYSTA Directors Meeting, our comments on the plan were of no substance and therefore ignored and no changes have been made. The Department is bent on pushing this through, regardless of controversy and adversity, in time for the changes to be printed in the syllabus for this upcoming season. There were only a bit over 300 comments to the plan when posted on the DEC website. This is your last chance to comment and try to effect changes before these regs are adopted.
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Post by stewa107 on May 12, 2015 23:13:16 GMT -5
Is there a link to go to? Is there any way to view the original comments?
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Post by silverfox on May 13, 2015 4:42:11 GMT -5
its painfully obvious the bureaucratic suits that have a vested "hidden agenda" (surely in the form of personal financial gain) have the powers that be wrapped around their fingers and anything the trapping community says is moot to them, with that being said i will still formulate another comment to submit and hope everyone else does the same, but they sure are pushing this pretty hard to get the changes initiated by next fall, which means there's a hidden catalyst beneath the layers that has their hands in Albany's cookie jar, New yorkistan at its finest
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Post by trappermac on May 13, 2015 7:17:25 GMT -5
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Post by papabear on May 13, 2015 7:19:09 GMT -5
Dear Friends, Data, Views, or Arguments may be submitted to: Micheal Schiavone, NYS Department of Environmental Conservation, 625 Broadway, Albany, N.Y. 12233-4754.......email; michael.schiavone@dec.ny.gov........phone#, 1-518-402-8886.....Regards
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Post by whartonrattrapper on May 13, 2015 9:22:56 GMT -5
This is very disappointing......
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Post by SawmillCreek on May 13, 2015 10:33:40 GMT -5
Looks like I'll be in the market for some 280s at convention this summer instead of some new 330s.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on May 13, 2015 11:25:07 GMT -5
Looks like I'll be in the market for some 280s at convention this summer instead of some new 330s. was my first thoughts exactly, too |
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paintedpaw
Retired NYSDEC Lake George Ranger
Posts: 693 
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Post by paintedpaw on May 13, 2015 12:15:29 GMT -5
We have been round and round about each point of the fisher management plan. In my opinion these biologists can not be this stupid. It is very evident that they have sold their souls and become "yes" men to powers higher than them. It is also very evident that the accusations of my friend Chappy are true. Without question the higher ups in DEC all the way from the commissioner on down are complicit in this devious deal.
I can honestly say that it was not the trappers that broke the trust in this rotten deal. We dealt from a concern for the species, honesty, trust, and integrity. We were met with smiles, handshakes, a slap in the face, and a knife in our backs. The entire package, and the manner in which DEC did it is contemptable. Everything from the late presentation of the draft to the Cornell/DEC survey, to the date of appearance in the state register has been pre planned. Even in the wording in the register there are outright lies. The public comments have been an excercise in bull crap, with DEC admitting that they would have no affect or change upon the plan.
When I think back to all of the meetings, time,money spent, mailings, and mileage driven in an honest attempt to come to a sensible plan, only to have the door slammed in our face really hurts. I can remember driving to the NTA in Wisconsin to honor a DEC bigshot, and recently to Canastota to honor the same person. Boy was I taken in and I admit it.
These rules and regs are far, far from being in the best interest and sustainability of the species. Trappers have been completely ignored and shut out.
In addition what really hurts is the treatment we trappers received from DEC, from people we considered to be friends. To watch these so called wild life managers turn into a bunch of puppet yes men responding to the pull of the strings from above is disgusting.
Tom Fisher had it 100% right when he left New York State. The lies, refusal to listen, back stabbing, and lack of integrity from DEC have brought me to the point of complete contempt for all of these birds. You have spit in our face once. You will never get a second chance! Boy dis Bob Samuelson ever predict this one correctly.
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Post by SawmillCreek on May 13, 2015 12:46:41 GMT -5
Looks like I'll be in the market for some 280s at convention this summer instead of some new 330s. was my first thoughts exactly, too ..and we'll have way less suitcases beaver |
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Post by whartonrattrapper on May 13, 2015 13:05:42 GMT -5
was my first thoughts exactly, too ..and we'll have way less suitcases beaver and the same lifeless, worthless, out of season Otters as any other season........ |
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Post by papabear on May 13, 2015 13:52:08 GMT -5
Dear Friends, WMU's 5C, 5F, 5G, 5H, 5J & 6J (the entire ADK's).....Fisher & Martin season Oct.25 - Nov. 15.........WHAT A PATHETIC JOKE!!!! Screw them and there bullshit "revocable special permits" and that's all I'm going to say about that! Regards
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Post by SawmillCreek on May 13, 2015 15:50:22 GMT -5
Dear Friends, WMU's 5C, 5F, 5G, 5H, 5J & 6J (the entire ADK's).....Fisher & Martin season Oct.25 - Nov. 15.........WHAT A PATHETIC JOKE!!!! Screw them and there bullshit "revocable special permits" and that's all I'm going to say about that! Regards We've had them same BS revocable permits for the last 2 yrs here for bobcats. Looks like 1 more to keep track of here. I dont have the time to fill it out accurately and mail back. Make sure its written on, seal, and send. |
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on May 13, 2015 16:07:45 GMT -5
..and we'll have way less suitcases beaver and the same lifeless, worthless, out of season Otters as any other season........ Nobody cares about otter, they ain't furbearers here so that makes them irrelevant imo. As many or more drown in foothold traps than #330s anyway. If we're forced to use #280s then we are likewise forced to set them in tighter pinch-points, trails and channels in order to funnel beaver in. No different than going from 3220s to #160s for coon... gotta set them in the tight spaces to work well. Whatever swims thru those locations will get pole-axed and sorted out later. |
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Post by SawmillCreek on May 13, 2015 17:41:33 GMT -5
Agreed!
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Post by stewa107 on May 13, 2015 17:53:36 GMT -5
The way in talking this is that no matter if even 100 % of licensed trappers comment against this, it is still going to happen. It makes me want to just walk away from it all together
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Post by oldtimer on May 13, 2015 19:28:58 GMT -5
beaver can and are just as easy in 220s as a330 and you can cary a lot more of them.have used 220s for 40 years and can always find a pinch point to set. it kills beaver in less time also.
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tmc
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,449
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Post by tmc on May 13, 2015 19:31:53 GMT -5
Just a thought... it's obvious that this and most if not all other trapping sites are FAR less busy after seasons end; methinks perchance DECon takes advantage of this perceived lack of attention on our part to slip this sort of sh---tuff in at this time of year?
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Post by slyfox74 on May 13, 2015 20:30:21 GMT -5
So in addition to a trapping license we now need a special fisher trapping permit? and it's revocable??? What's that all about? I didn't see that coming and feel blind sided by it. What's the premise of that action? Also the DEC just fully outlawed 330 conibears in the southern zone where Otters are still thought to be rare? No one catches otters in $280's or 220's. What's the point of thatr exept to simply take more of our rights away? I've caught Otters in 160's. I just can't believe what I read. Everyone should join NYSTA as soon as they get an extra $25. This country, specifically this state needs a good cleaning out. It's ironic that we are the ones out there everyday with mud on our boots, we see and experience what the desk jocky's only wish they knew, yetg our input is not even considered. Educate yourselves people, educate yourselves and your children because it all boils down to how we are perceived.
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Post by SawmillCreek on May 13, 2015 20:45:56 GMT -5
Not outlawed, all over 8 1/2 must comply w trigger regs.
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Post by jdpaint on May 13, 2015 22:05:26 GMT -5
ADC , cagers and the DEC are ready for the incidentals .
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Post by redknot on May 14, 2015 7:52:50 GMT -5
So in addition to a trapping license we now need a special fisher trapping permit? and it's revocable??? What's that all about? I didn't see that coming and feel blind sided by it. What's the premise of that action? Also the DEC just fully outlawed 330 conibears in the southern zone where Otters are still thought to be rare? No one catches otters in $280's or 220's. What's the point of thatr exept to simply take more of our rights away? I've caught Otters in 160's. I just can't believe what I read. Everyone should join NYSTA as soon as they get an extra $25. This country, specifically this state needs a good cleaning out. It's ironic that we are the ones out there everyday with mud on our boots, we see and experience what the desk jocky's only wish they knew, yetg our input is not even considered. Educate yourselves people, educate yourselves and your children because it all boils down to how we are perceived. Sly, you shouldn't feel blind-sided about the fisher permit requirement for some locations, that was spelled out in the Fisher Management Plan. The premise for the requirement is to allow DEC the ability to accurately measure trapper effort in regards to fisher. The "effort" along with "trap nights" are needed values for any statistical analysis when determining populations and over time population trends... |
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Post by papabear on May 14, 2015 10:54:20 GMT -5
Dear Mr. Redknot, you wrote: "The premise for the requirement is to allow DEC the ability to accurately measure trapper effort in regards to fisher. The "effort" along with "trap nights" are needed values for any statistical analysis when determining populations and over time population trends..."
For the 'Dacks, DEC is reducing the fisher season to 22 days, running concurrent with the northern zone deer gun season. My journal tells me that over the years that I normally don't catch very many fisher during the first couple of weeks of the season, and that my best catches come about a week after the southern deer gun season opens and most of the deer shooters head out of the north woods to the southern zone! My thinking and belief is, that during the first part of the season in the 'Dacks fisher spend most of there time avoiding areas of deer hunter activity, and there normal travel routes change. My good friend Brother Brushwolf traps in the Catskills and tells me his best runs are before the southern zone deer season opens!
Keeping in mind the fore mentioned statements: First THERE IS NO WAY ACCURATE POPULATION TRENDS CAN BE DETERMINED BY A HANFULL OF DATA COLLECTED OVER A THREE WEEK TIME SPAN, because there are far to many factors that cant and wont be taken into consideration by the current group of biologists. Their incompetence has been truly displayed by their presentation of the sorry, incomplete, half a$$ed attempt, "fisher management plan" that contains nothing more than a baseless, useless, collection of irrelevant and non current scientific data. It is my belief that DEC data collected from the "special revocable permits" by Adirondack trappers will certainly be used by DEC to impose further restrictions, bag limits, or possible season closures in the 'Dacks. There is NO WAY that these opinionated, biased, DEC biologists will use the trapper supplied data in a way that benefits trappers, but will merely misuse or simply choose to misinterpret it to further their self serving agenda. I have participated several years in filling out the "special revocable permits" for pine martin and have yet to see anything beneficial to trappers come from it.
At this point and time it is my very strong opinion that there are those within the DEC who are more PRESERVATION than conservation minded and are hell bent driven to ultimately close ALL trapping activities in the Adirondacks. Allowing the harvest of un-prime fisher is not a wise use of the natural resource! A 22 day fisher season run exactly concurrent during the most active part of the Northern Zone deer gun season. And to require trappers to document fisher trapping efforts during a less than ideal season. Need I say more? Regards
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paintedpaw
Retired NYSDEC Lake George Ranger
Posts: 693
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Post by paintedpaw on May 14, 2015 12:19:05 GMT -5
From what I read above the Conservation Council "Yes" men would agree if DEC told them the oceans are dry. Heaven forbid that DEC stops short, there might be a dreadful accident!!!
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paintedpaw
Retired NYSDEC Lake George Ranger
Posts: 693
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Post by paintedpaw on May 14, 2015 12:33:46 GMT -5
According to statements made to us by DEC the bulk of the fisher catch is made in the first two weeks of the season. Personally, like Pappa Bear, I don't find that to be true. Once a lot of the deer hunters head south fisher habits change considerably. If in fact what DEC is saying is true why would you shorten the season on the tail end rather than when the greatest per centage of catch is being made? Supposedly this reduction in trapping days is an "EMERGENCY" knee jerk reaction to a "PERCEIVED" decline in fisher population. The determined and repeated refusal of DEC for a later season, to me shows that DEC is talking out of both sides of their mouth and a preservationist mentality to stick it up our ass!
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