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Post by papabear on Nov 25, 2014 22:44:26 GMT -5
Dear Friends, With the uncertainty of this years fur market I decided to scale back a bit and to do some experimenting. One of the things I'm trying is using only lure or bait that contains no skunk essence at my fisher sets. I started with 17 locations set (for fisher) and am using a combination of three type sets, Box with a 155's running poles with 160's and the flower pot set (demo'ed at Zerbie) with 155's. The bait im using is salted fish and a 4 meat ground bait I make. I'm mainly using one of my own concoctions at the majority of sets with Night Owls "Plum Loco" and Clint Locklears "Cat Collector" at a couple of sets to offer a little variety.
So far; the flower pot sets and box sets are tied with mostly females and only one buck. Oddly the running poles have produced 2 big big bucks and only 1 female. *Note* Most years I catch as many males at ground sets as females. A high percentage of the females are juveniles, all 3 bucks are adult animals.
At the flower pot sets Im using salted fish, sheeps wool and lure, the box sets I'm using my ground 4 meat bait, sheeps wool and lure 3' to 5' above the set and at the running poles, salted fish, piece of sheeps wool and lure.
Today I pulled 1 location as 2 fisher were caught there, but I am still fishering with 16 locations set up and still not a drop of skunk essence used.
Regards
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Post by Lonny Mattison on Nov 26, 2014 5:39:42 GMT -5
Dear Wise one, You are doing alot better than I am, but you are the better trapper. I have yet to take a fisher this year. I have only seen 2 sets of track also. I started the season with no skunk. Last week was my first application of the skunky smell. But, I am thinking positive and hope I connect.
I am running a few leaning pole sets, but mostly 155's on the ground. The 2 sets of tracks I did see they actually worked the 155 sets, but would not commit sticking there head in. Snow tells the whole story.
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paintedpaw
Retired NYSDEC Lake George Ranger
Posts: 691
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Post by paintedpaw on Nov 26, 2014 13:09:11 GMT -5
Dear PapaBear, Not only are you a gentleman, but from all that I have read, an excellant trapper.It is great to see a trapper that is an experimenter and innovative. I too am a fisher trapper operating in the Lake George/Warren County area of the eastern adirondacks. Unfortunately, this year my season will only be about a week, for family reasons.I did put out my traps in place before I left, unset, in order to speed up the process of setting when I finally return home. I am most interested in your experiments and look forward to hearing the final results. Am particularly interested in the use of salted fish. After experimenting with meat baits (muskrat,venison scraps,mink,and coon) I have decided, for me, that beaver is best. I open every fisher I take and note they sometimes fill up on apples, nuts, and wild grapes. I've been trying to figure a bait along those lines. Am also planning to experiment with anise, beaver sac oil, bananas, and fisher glands. I have found that some of those Maine trappers make darn good lures,also Russ Carmen. Interesting to me that you are doing so well without the use of skunk. You must have excellant locations. A quick question; are you trapping in the mountain forests, or in farm country? All of my trapping is in forest land. Years ago I used rotted down smelt up and down the poles, but had so much trouble with bears that I had to give up the practise.Years ago I actually caught a young bear , by the leg, in a 220 on a pole, but that is another story. Please keep us posted and good trapping. Best regards.
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Post by brushwolf64 on Nov 26, 2014 14:20:08 GMT -5
Bob it sounds like your having fun!!! I wish I could get off this couch and join you. Like you I have found that skunkless lures work very well on the fisher line. Im partial to sweet lures with the exception of fishers fate that you were kind enough to share with us. I know its common knowledge for fisher trappers to use the strongest call (skunky) lures available but my lines have shown different. Im guessing trappers either use heavy quill to make up for set location or believe that the fishers nose isn't that good and they need a heavy dose of skunk. When I do use skunk its generally applied up high(4-5ft.) but I seldom place it on the bait. I think some fisher are repelled by heavy skunky lures.This has worked very well here for me anyway. As far as bait goes ive always believed that beaver is #1 but salted fish is #2 and works well as a fisher bait. Not all fish is equal though. Our best fish bait is made from salted Ocean species and works superior to any fresh water species weve tried.Saltwater fish is a lot tougher,oiler and produces an odor that fisher seem to really like. Also bait size is important,especially with running poles. If lure gets the fisher to the location then the bait in my opinion is what gets them through the trap. We tend to use large baits, fist sized or a bit bigger. Its my opinion that larger baits cause a greater reaction in the animal wanting to possess the bait and working the bait in a more aggressive manner. We are very fortunate here in the catskills as we have a healthy population of fisher to work with but we are still very carefull of overharvesting any given area.Sorry for the long winded reply but im bored out of my mind sitting on this couch as my foot heals and I love talking fisher !!!!
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Post by mole on Nov 26, 2014 18:34:13 GMT -5
I have found that unfortunately loud skunk odor attracts two legged skunks all to well. I applaud your experimentation my Friend. Good Luck
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paintedpaw
Retired NYSDEC Lake George Ranger
Posts: 691
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Post by paintedpaw on Nov 26, 2014 19:54:54 GMT -5
The reasons that I use skunk are because it still works in very cold temperatures and because I'm not always 100% sure that I'm on location. There are certain things I look for in new locations, but there is a certain degree of guesswork. If I'm off by 50 or 75 yards I believe the skunk will draw them in. I never put skunk on the bait. I like to put it as high as I can reach in a weather sheltered spot and another dab within a foot or two of the ground. Just the way I've always done it. My experience is that females and juveniles are much more likely to climb the poles than the males and that the poles work much better when snow arrives. We (JTI) have been informed by DEC that the Catskills now make up 30% of the entire state fisher take.Unfortunately in my area and the central Adirondacks there has been a decline in fisher populations "to the extent they can no longer sustain themselves". We are expecting a Fisher Management Plan shortly from DEC. It remains to be seen what they come up with. I will try some salted cod fish. Thank you for your input and hope you can get back out there soon!
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Post by saquelie on Nov 26, 2014 21:21:59 GMT -5
Al, I border you to the north we have the same declining population as you. I blame our mature forests on the decline as I am seeing more fisher caught in totally different terrain as ten to twenty years prior. Salted smelt was my dads go to bait early in the season a little skunk later as high as we could reach ten to twenty feet from our bait.
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Post by papabear on Nov 26, 2014 22:19:30 GMT -5
Dear Friends, I suppose I should include some additional info to enlighten you to the method of my madness. I have 5, what I consider/call, fisher lines. Each line is layed out to contain between 10 to 30 or so locations. When I set out a line, I only set enough locations on that particular line to be covered in no more than a 6 hour run to check all locations on that line. I do so to allow time for remakes and setting other locations on that line. When I catch 1 or 2 fisher at a location I pull and set up another location on that line. Example..... My Gray/Bullhill line consists of 31 fisher set locations. With driving to locations and walking to check sets im normally checking between 15 to 18 locations. I set what I consider the best of the locations first and as traps are moved beacuase of a catch being made or for whatever reason, other locations on that line are set.
Over the years I have found locations that will produce fisher most every year. I call these my "money in the bank" locations. For the most part these locations are a combination of a travel routes with enough prey critters that fisher can hunt when traveling through.
Therefore my experiments are being conducted at 17 proven locations where the chances of catching a fisher are very good. Locations are in the forested foothills of the Adirondacks. The salted fish was given to me by Brother Brushwolf. The ground 4 meat bait consists of porcupine, crawdads, venison, chicken with some tinctured beaver castor and a touch of good tonquin, the primary lure Im using is my "Klondike" which is a formulation of rotten down deer liver base blended with beaver castor, oil sac and an ample dose of true civet. Regards
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Post by papabear on Nov 26, 2014 22:54:47 GMT -5
Dear Mr. Paintedpaw, I started out by running only 17 locations this year. All locations are forests in the ADAK foothills in WMU 5J. These locations were set 3 weeks ago and will remain until the end of the season or until 2 fisher are harvested at any location. As of today Im down to 15 locations.
Brother Brushwolf, I too wish you were out fisher trapping. Im going to miss your pics of the big dent you put in the Catskill fisher population. Stay well my friend.
Mr. Mole, Ive dealt with a few two legged skunks over the years.
Mr. Lonnie, Hang in there my friend, the fisher trapping is just starting to get good.
Regards
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paintedpaw
Retired NYSDEC Lake George Ranger
Posts: 691
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Post by paintedpaw on Nov 26, 2014 23:48:06 GMT -5
Gentlemen, Wow there is much information being shared here. Am pleased to read of the conservationist practises being followed by pulling traps after two catches. Because of declining catches I have gone to rotating lines every three years, much like farmers do with crops. Fisher are my favorite species and I hate to see this decline.I love trapping in the forests, not peoples back yards. I agree with Mr.Saquelie that the reason is an over mature forest. I will be most interested to see what, if anything, DEC will do about it. Happy Thanksgining everyone.
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Post by trappermac on Nov 27, 2014 6:18:05 GMT -5
Interesting thread guys....lots of good info from very experienced trappers. Taking notes in case we get a fisher season here. Good stuff!
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Post by saquelie on Nov 27, 2014 8:36:11 GMT -5
Papa that civet scent has me interested. Is that a musk?
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Post by flatiron on Nov 27, 2014 8:44:58 GMT -5
Awesome Papa Bear! Your fine baits and attractants aren't just experiments either! Pure civet is a expensive and hard find, civet and weasel musk are fox killers in hay sets too!
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paintedpaw
Retired NYSDEC Lake George Ranger
Posts: 691
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Post by paintedpaw on Nov 27, 2014 10:35:37 GMT -5
Good Morning,I am wondering if other fisher trappers use flaging. I believe that they are sight hunters and in remote locations I always hang a turkey feather in the vicinity of the set. My sets are always stapled and it would be very difficult to steal should they be found. I do cover my boxes with hemlock or balsam, but I do not camo my running poles. What say you?
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Post by saquelie on Nov 27, 2014 11:47:53 GMT -5
Never tried flagging for fisher but have picked up a few that stumbled into my cat cubbies while using a flag. I too cover my boxes and over the years have used the Donahue set up.
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Post by papabear on Nov 27, 2014 12:17:57 GMT -5
Dear Mr. Paintedpaw, I am big for flagging! I like partridge wings best but use a lot of silver chritmas tree garland I get from the dollar store. I also like pieces of fur at the set and feel it is very effective at enticing fisher and cats.
I also brush in my boxes but think im going to cut back on using them, because I have been using a flower pot set that I feel is more versitile and believe the pot is actually a visual attraction of sorts. No brush on running poles.
Regards
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Post by newfox1 on Nov 27, 2014 12:39:08 GMT -5
papabear,how far is it between your "locations" so I have an idea .ive caught 3 fisher in about a 2 mile radius of my house.wondering if I should move or pull some sets.
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paintedpaw
Retired NYSDEC Lake George Ranger
Posts: 691
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Post by paintedpaw on Nov 27, 2014 19:09:12 GMT -5
Mr. PapaBear, I'm sorry that I missed it, but I heard that you did a demo on the flower pot set. I usually carry a collapsible wire cage on a vertical tree in a good location if a suitable pole can not be found, Are these the dark plastic flower pots? Would you mind describing the set? How high, etc. Thank you.
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Post by papabear on Nov 27, 2014 22:39:43 GMT -5
Dear Mr. Saquelie, The civet I use most was tinctured from authentic civet musk paste. It is a highly attractive musk and a good fixative to boot. Definately one of my favorite lure enhancers.
Mr. Newfox, If you plan on catching fisher in the future from that area I would reccomend pulling especially if one or more of the harvested animals are females. I try to keep a 5 to 6 mile MINIMUM between set locations! However I set as much good fisher looking habitat and crossings as possible. I may have three or four sets spaced along a 2 to 3 mile stretch of road, however if I know that 2 fisher (wheather I or my competition catch them) I pull my sets. You have to take into concideration the potential number of fisher harvested, not only by you, but also other trappers in the area. Over harvest one or two years and you may very well eliminate your population and have to wait several years for them to repopulate. Trust me on this!
Regards
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Post by papabear on Nov 28, 2014 0:23:32 GMT -5
Dear Mr. Paintedpaw, A 1 gallon plastic nursery pot, a 12" piece of 1"x2" wood, a 16 penny spiral nail, and a 3"x3" piece of sheetmetal. Drive the 16 penny nail (bait holder)at an slight upward angle 2" down from the top of the 1"x2", At about 8" down (or the depth of the pot) nail or screw on the piece of sheetmetal (bodygrip holder). The pot should rest on the trap springs when slid over the 1"x2" that has been nailed in place to the tree. Use 2, 6 or 8 penny nails below the trap holder on the 1"x2" to attach to the tree... Bait gets pushed on the 16 penny nail. 155 bodygrip set on the sheetmetal holder (bend the top and bottom edge of the shetmetal to allow the trap jaws to nestle under). Anchor the trap to the tree with cable, wire or staple, Slide the pot over the top of the 1"x"2 to cover bait and trap. Apply call lure several feet above.
I set about 2' above the ground in WILDERNESS locations only. They can be set at any height you desire but common sense should be applied by anyone using this outside of a wilderness application! Regards
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paintedpaw
Retired NYSDEC Lake George Ranger
Posts: 691
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Post by paintedpaw on Nov 28, 2014 9:14:32 GMT -5
Thank you Mr.Papabear. Have a great day.
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Post by newfox1 on Nov 28, 2014 9:51:55 GMT -5
thank you papabear
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Post by mikemason on Nov 28, 2014 17:17:04 GMT -5
Pappa Bear.....I have use Caven's tree climber and fruit base lures for fisher and have had good results......I still use a meat bait with the lure.
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Post by papabear on Nov 28, 2014 20:54:38 GMT -5
Dear Mr. Mikemason, I am certain beyond any doubt that fisher and most furbearers, with exception of cats, otter, and mink, have a fondness for sweets. Ive often stated that I believe If I nailed a jelly doughnut on a running pole with a sweet lure I could catch a fisher. So far though, no jelly doughnuts in my possesion have ever made it anywhere near a running pole, lol. Regards
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Post by milkie62 on Nov 29, 2014 23:01:53 GMT -5
Dear Friends, I suppose I should include some additional info to enlighten you to the method of my madness. I have 5, what I consider/call, fisher lines. Each line is layed out to contain between 10 to 30 or so locations. When I set out a line, I only set enough locations on that particular line to be covered in no more than a 6 hour run to check all locations on that line. I do so to allow time for remakes and setting other locations on that line. When I catch 1 or 2 fisher at a location I pull and set up another location on that line. Example..... My Gray/Bullhill line consists of 31 fisher set locations. With driving to locations and walking to check sets im normally checking between 15 to 18 locations. I set what I consider the best of the locations first and as traps are moved beacuase of a catch being made or for whatever reason, other locations on that line are set. Over the years I have found locations that will produce fisher most every year. I call these my "money in the bank" locations. For the most part these locations are a combination of a travel routes with enough prey critters that fisher can hunt when traveling through. Therefore my experiments are being conducted at 17 proven locations where the chances of catching a fisher are very good. Locations are in the forested foothills of the Adirondacks. The salted fish was given to me by Brother Brushwolf. The ground 4 meat bait consists of porcupine, crawdads, venison, chicken with some tinctured beaver castor and a touch of good tonquin, the primary lure Im using is my "Klondike" which is a formulation of rotten down deer liver base blended with beaver castor, oil sac and an ample dose of true civet. Regards Hello Papabear,what is "good tonquin" or should I say where can some good stuff be obtained.I bought some on ebay and after a couple of months had no smell at all.I had been had.
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