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Post by bruce on Oct 12, 2014 15:12:11 GMT -5
Is it legal in NYS to leave your traps in their sets but not set, in other words with the trap fired. I ask because I'll be a weekend warrior and would like to leave the traps on the line in their place and just have to come in on a Friday after work and set them for checking the next day, then on Sunday, my last time through I would fire them again.
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Post by uncledoug on Oct 12, 2014 15:44:21 GMT -5
This question comes up from time to time and I don't know the true answer. I would get ahold of your local DEC Officer and ask. I have fired mine a couple times and left them because of very bad weather for a day or two, I put plastic tie straps on them so they can't be set unless it's removed, just to show my intent incase it is questioned. Doesn't mean it's legal though.
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Post by bruce on Oct 12, 2014 16:33:55 GMT -5
Thanks for the response, I will check with the local DEC. I do like your idea of a ty-wrap to show intent.
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Post by crayfishbob on Oct 12, 2014 19:08:27 GMT -5
When in doubt, read the regulations. Copy and pasted from DEC site :
Land or Water
You may use any legal method to kill a trapped animal. You do not need a hunting license to use a firearm to kill a legally trapped animal. You may not set or stake a trap prior to 7:00 a.m. on opening day. You are not allowed to set a trap within 100 feet of a house, school, playground or church unless you have permission from the owner of the land where the trap is set.
" You may not set or stake a trap prior to 7:00 a.m. on opening day." By leaving it there from the year before would fall under the same circumstances and would be illegal.
That's the way I understand it.
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Post by countryboynwco on Oct 12, 2014 20:09:13 GMT -5
In the manner of leaving the season to season yes its illegal but he is asking if during the open season its OK to leave them sprung from sun to Mon which is not really covered in the regs to my knowledge ! Some ECO would probably say it still needs to be checked others may not !
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Post by bruce on Oct 13, 2014 6:01:55 GMT -5
Yes that is what I am asking, leaving it from Sunday to Friday. I did read that re quoted above but that does not address what I am asking.
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Post by Itrapny on Oct 13, 2014 7:03:17 GMT -5
This question has come up many times before and the answer is, only a trap that is set and capable of catching an animal is required to be checked every 24 hours. This has been confirmed by law enforcement and while not an ideal situation due to the possibility of theft, it 100% legal to do so.
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Zagman
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,186
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Post by Zagman on Oct 13, 2014 7:31:16 GMT -5
Correct...
Hike back into a beaver flow a couple weeks before season, dump your traps on the ground (unset and un-staked) and you are legal.....and saves your time and your back once season opens. The words SET and Staked are the key.
So, you CANNOT put an unset conibear on a stake in a run to CLAIM that spot before the opener. You can put a stake there without a trap, but that doesn't make the spot yours.
After the 7AM opener, you can do what ever you want......
MZ
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Oct 13, 2014 7:49:42 GMT -5
... to which I'll add this verified fact. A trapper cannot claim a set location by simply staking in an unset trap and leaving it there as some sort of territorial marker. I've heard tales about guys who will scurry around on opening day past 7am and shove a bunch of stakes with unset traps in muskrat runs on public ground as an attempt to claim them.
that act does not result in a "lawfully set trap"... it is merely a bunch of stakes with some random trap-like metal adornments on them. Feel free to set your own lawfully activated traps on location there as seen fit.
I myself commonly leave unset, sprung canine traps on location during inclement weather or personal breaks. I usually turn them upside down, baseplate up and cover with some sort of material on-site. In other words, there is no question the trap was disabled and not operable during my absence.
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Post by bruce on Oct 13, 2014 9:21:39 GMT -5
Thanks all for the above posts, it's clear to me that I am okay with doing what I would like, at the risk of theft of course.
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Post by trappermac on Oct 13, 2014 10:15:30 GMT -5
... to which I'll add this verified fact. A trapper cannot claim a set location by simply staking in an unset trap and leaving it there as some sort of territorial marker. I've heard tales about guys who will scurry around on opening day past 7am and shove a bunch of stakes with unset traps in muskrat runs on public ground as an attempt to claim them. that act does not result in a "lawfully set trap"... it is merely a bunch of stakes with some random trap-like metal adornments on them. . Disagree with you Austin on this one....while it is ethically wrong to do this, there is "no law" that says a trap set in water (after 7:00AM opening day) has to be in the "set position" to be legal. What you are saying is that if I set my coni in a rat run and step away and the trap fires then I'm breaking the law because the trap is no longer in the set position. There is no law that says the only legal trap is one that is set, if that were the case we'd all be breaking the law. That's what you're saying with your post, and is not correct. Don't confuse ethics with the law.
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Zagman
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,186
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Post by Zagman on Oct 13, 2014 12:21:01 GMT -5
Man, I am torn on this rat stake/trap thing.....
I think Ethics/ethical may not apply, and is even a strong word.....I tend to look at it as a creative, hard-driving method (and legal) to beat one's competition....
In Rochester NY, there's a bay where the blue bills come en mass later in the winter, and the locals fight for the best spots to put their rigs. If the opener is Saturday, guys go out and deploy their decoys on Thursday, and leave a boat out there and one at the dock, with guys taking shifts to guard the spot. They run pizzas and food and water back and forth, and ensure they will have that prime spot at first light on the opener.
An extreme example of something I would never do, but legal and ethical, nonetheless.
Concert tickets? New Apple phone launch. Duke basketball tickets? People do this stuff all the time.....
If some 'rat trapper can run ahead of ALL the competition in an entire area on the opener, setting these stakes and unset traps, gosh, he must be superman. One spot? Sure......he can beat you, but he can't beat you to EVERY spot, can he? It's hardly an across-the-board approach......just like you can't have decoys in every corn field on the opener. One spot?....sure.
MZ
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Post by trappermac on Oct 13, 2014 12:57:49 GMT -5
I still think it is ethics...which is evaluating what is right or wrong (your internal philosophy)and acting on it, what you deem to be ethical may not be what someone else deems ethical.....true that ethics has gone out the door in this fast paced, run by Iphone society that wants everything now and fast and it doesn't matter who we step on to get it. "Me first" value system governs actions. Maybe the term your looking for is selfish..or "value system"...still comes down to ethics and your moral philosophy I think. I would never intentionally take another trappers spot by doing what is described above, nor set up my decoy raft days ahead of the waterfowl season to grab the best spot......I'd like those spots for myself...truly would....but something prevents me from doing that....it's not the law...so what is it if it's not my ethics?
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Zagman
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,186
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Post by Zagman on Oct 13, 2014 13:18:15 GMT -5
I get it...thus my word TORN.
On the duck thing, where is the line on questioned ethics vs. accepted practice? If you've ever pulled into a hot cornfield with some of your buddies and see truck tail ligts and head lamps, you know that sinking feeling. Man, shoulda got up an hour earlier! Same with on the water......come around the corner and see a spotlight on the water with guys plopping decoys out. Crap!
So, is four am too early? 5AM? 2AM? Where does it cross from competitive to unethical?
Just trying to get some action going over here! You know, keeping things lively!
MZ
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Post by trappermac on Oct 13, 2014 13:26:28 GMT -5
I see what you're saying, not sure where that line is. Maybe it just comes down to there ain't enough spots... ;-)
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Oct 13, 2014 16:02:16 GMT -5
What you are saying is that if I set my coni in a rat run and step away and the trap fires then I'm breaking the law because the trap is no longer in the set position. That's what you're saying with your post, and is not correct. Don't confuse ethics with the law. mac, that's not even almost what I'm saying... don't confuse my point with what YOU are saying that you assume I'm saying. If a guy moves thru an area of public water, stakes out 20 - 100 unset traps with the stakes just jammed in place to claim a spot, he ain't set any traps there yet. If I'm floating up behind that mess, I am setting my own traps deployed in those areas as I see fit. I've been trapping now for 41 years and counting. Do you honestly think I cannot identify a set trap that's been sprung, versus a multitude of unset traps staked in spots to claim? Seriously Mac... is that what you are saying here?
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Post by trappermac on Oct 13, 2014 16:31:25 GMT -5
... to which I'll add this verified fact. A trapper cannot claim a set location by simply staking in an unset trap and leaving it there that act does not result in a "lawfully set trap"... . I'm sayiig you're confusing law with what's cnsidered right or wrong ethically. Look at the bold underline quotes in your post....there is no law against it.....if there is, show me.
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Post by snowrd on Oct 14, 2014 5:46:21 GMT -5
Here is the thing, it is public land you are talking about... That means I have as much right to be there as anyone else. Trap set or sprung it doesn't matter.
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outsidedge
failing to plan is planning to fail
Posts: 245
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Post by outsidedge on Oct 19, 2014 12:03:40 GMT -5
Here in Southeast Pa. leaving unset traps is a common practice by a lot of trappers. By doing so a trapper can roll into an area work hard and set it up for a week or two and snap off. Then spend the next week working hard setting up another area making catches all the while, turn around and backtrack, reset the traps you snapped off the week before. This way you can double your entire line in just one day. Opening day is a chance for a trapper to get as much steel in the ground as possible. After opening day the process of setting traps on new ground slows down by having to check the ones you already set. If I intend to run hard I push myself to put in sets on new ground everyday. But there is only so much time in one day to do so. So I too will snap off a distant end of my trapline while making new sets in the opposite direction. After that is done I reset the other end. Time management is everything especially if you are working full time also.
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paintedpaw
Retired NYSDEC Lake George Ranger
Posts: 691
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Post by paintedpaw on Oct 20, 2014 10:29:55 GMT -5
Years ago Adirondack beaver trappers would run around prior to the season and stake with their name trap locations in order to claim chice spots. The trouble was that some trappers eyes were bigger than their stomache and did not trap every pond they had staked out. Other trappers would come into the pond, see the choice spots were taken and leave with ending up that no one trapped that pond. It happened a lot and I believe it was what precipitated the law that you can not claim a trap location prior to opening day. Every year I do head to the southern tier and Pennsylvania for some deer hunting. I do leave my traps in place and sprung before I go. Also early in the season I set out my fisher traps unset and unbaited to save a lot of time once I start trapping in late November. Catching blue, unprime fisher is not my idea of being a rsponsible trapper regardless of DEC's jackass laws.
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