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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2013 12:25:07 GMT -5
“Why would you shoot this?” “He would have been a good one next year” “Thanks for getting to your stand late and blowing all the deer out” “GET OFF MY PROPERTY LINE!” It is fair to say that among those who take to the field with hopes to harvest game, have had these encounters with others in the field which made the entire experience anything but enjoyable. This comes in many forms: confrontation with neighbors, other hunters belittling another hunter’s trophy, stolen tree stands and trail cameras, etc. The list goes on and on. This topic is more prevalent today than it ever has been before. Why? Should we not as sportsmen and conservationists be celebrating where the sport is today? There is more to be thankful for than topics we should be fighting each other about. Just the other day I listened to a fellow hunter and good friend describe one of these ill experiences with an adjoining land owner to a property he was hunting. This friend of mine has permission to hunt a piece of property which he has for several years. The adjoining landowner whom had planted a food plot earlier in the year claimed that my friend was “cutting off deer on their way to his food plot” based on his treestand placement. The neighbor proceeded to talk on his cell phone while this friend was trying to hunt in an effort to frustrate him to finally leave his stand. Stories like this seem all too common these days. The amount of turmoil among the hunting community is at an all time high. Again, why? Could it be that hunting property is at an all time premium? Is the popularity of the sport at an all time high with more hunters struggling to find land to hunt? Could it be that the sport is being sensationalized via all of the media outlets? To some degree, all of these things and more you can answer yes to. It seems easy for a hunter today to fall victim to having these ill thoughts towards fellow hunters. Do we not have other groups trying to fight us already, while trying to strip our right of hunting away for good? Animal rights activists/groups are relentlessly trying to do this exact thing every day! Are we not helping their cause by working against each other rather than with one another? When we fight against each other, what are some of the possible issues this creates beyond the confrontations themselves? Maybe a landowner that granted you permission to hunt is in the middle of a debate on property lines with a neighbor that otherwise never would have happened if a civil discussion would have taken place to reach an agreement. Now the neighbors are in an uncomfortable position. Perhaps an argument between two hunters while in the field becomes so heated that local law enforcement is called to the scene. Citations are issued for disorderly conduct, etc… This hits the newspaper as part of the weekly law enforcement announcements. Now those hunters involved have a name for themselves as someone who cannot control their temper. The worst case scenario I can think of is what took place in Rice Lake, WI a few years back where the result was several funerals because of a situation that got out of hand. These are just a few examples of how this type of behavior has negative effects beyond just the confrontations themselves. There certainly are situations where fellow hunters simply do not respect hunter’s property, hunting rights, or are down right impossible to work with or talk to. In these situations you are forced to call the authorities. But in most instances when we encounter these situations, can we not take the high road and work with one another? The outcome when a mutual agreement is reached is far better for the future rather than becoming bitter towards one another. When we work together, relationships are built, and the outdoor experience becomes that much better. Although at times it may be our knee jerk reactions when we see other hunters in the same area or see someone harvest an animal you have been chasing for years to have a degree of animosity. We really should embrace their same passion we have when we take to the field. Have you experienced the benefits of sharing the same passion with someone else in the outdoors rather than reacting in a negative way?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2013 13:10:51 GMT -5
Many years ago I let a guy that I worked with hunt my land because I felt sorry for him that he had nowhere other than public land to hunt. He kept telling me he would give me half the deer if he got one.....well he got 8 pointer and of course I never heard from the guy again. Just because someone hunts, or traps, or fishes, does not mean they are "good people"...there will always be a bunch of dinks. I have learned to keep to myself the last few years.
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Post by mole on Jan 7, 2013 15:40:27 GMT -5
My opinion and I believe it relates but most Hunting accidents where a person was shot by another was caused by nothing more than Greed. The shooter did not think the other person was a deer, He wanted it to be a Deer. This goes with most problems out there. Talk with some Conservaqation Officers sometime and some of the stories theyhave. Not just Hunters, but fishermen and trappers also. Greed Rules.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2013 16:05:02 GMT -5
Only greed would make a person set a trap within 2 ft of each side of your set.
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Post by mexicantrapper on Jan 7, 2013 17:00:55 GMT -5
Mole hit the nail on the head, greed. Two years ago I shot the biggest deer of my 30 years of bow hunting. A pass-through shot in a cut corn field, broad side at 25 yards with 30 minutes of daylight left. It ran straight across the field and onto the adjoining posted property. I left and went directly to the owner's house where he gave me permission to retrieve the deer at first light. The next morning I found great blood where the deer went into the hedge row and followed it 50 yards to a gut pile and an atv drag trail. Yes the ECO came but could not prove they took the buck because he couldn't find him. As a hunter, the only reason someone would tag or take another hunter's harvest is GREED. With that said, here's the other side of the coin. While hunting with a cousin he shot a buck, his first, with what was definitly a fatal hit. As the deer ran over the ridge we heard another shot. When we got there a man was standing over the deer. He asked if one of us had shot the deer my cousin said yes. The man congradulated him and explained that he watched the deer go down and only finished him so he wouldn't get away. Two very different stories. The property owner that claimed my deer in the first story is a hunter. The man in the second story that taught two young hunters a lesson is a sportsman. That is the difference and the reason I hunt, fish and trap.
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Woj
#3 Newhouse
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Post by Woj on Jan 7, 2013 17:41:34 GMT -5
The property owner that claimed my deer in the first story is a hunter. The man in the second story that taught two young hunters a lesson is a sportsman. That is the difference and the reason I hunt, fish and trap. Amen to that.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
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Post by austinp on Jan 7, 2013 18:36:15 GMT -5
In many cases, sportsmen are the creators of their own problem. Who creates greed? Greed is spawned from the desire to possess something that others covet and exhault. Big rack deer are coveted because man has glorified trophy hunting to a status level. Same as who caught the biggest bag of tournament bass, who trapped the most fox or coyotes or muskrats or whatever. Hunting, trapping and fishing have become ego competitive pursuits now. Social network sites like this very message board here, other message boards alike, Facebook are all identical, one & the same. Places for men to post pictures, compare results and line up to be measured up, accordingly. So the problems of greed and anger and hostility and negativity between outdoorsmen are created by outdoorsmen. To those of us who don't care who shot the biggest buck, who caught the most coyotes or fox or coon or whatever because we don't associate that with a man's self worth, there is no greed or jealousy. For all the other men out there who equate a pile of fluffy fox or smelly coyotes or greasy coon or the biggest buck as a status measure of man's self worth compared to other men, then there lies the problem at its core. Problem source clearly identified
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2013 18:41:18 GMT -5
Exactly!
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Post by mexicantrapper on Jan 7, 2013 19:20:45 GMT -5
I don't believe for one minute that ANY deer hunter wouldn't celebrate a little louder or smile a little bigger when he/she harvests a record class buck verses a smaller buck. That's called being human. Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying..... I hunt for because we, as a family, enjoy it first. For the meat and because I'm an addict second. I shoot more than my share of doe and small bucks. In 32 years I've only hung 3 on the wall. I completely agree that the so called trophy hunters are way over sensationalized but...If a 12 point and a 6 point are standing next to eachother you and I both are going to shoot the 12. The desire to harvest quality bucks does not define the difference between a sportsman and a hunter. Ethics do that.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Jan 7, 2013 19:34:27 GMT -5
The desire to harvest quality bucks does not define the difference between a sportsman and a hunter. Ethics do that. The difference is man's ego = insecurities in life that he hopes to compensate by "measuring up" with the biggest buck, heaviest bag of fish or most trapped animals. Versus men who aren't afflicted with said insecurities hang-up. I'm a 100% mature-buck hunter myself. I passed up point-blank shots at several 1.5 and 2.5 year old bucks this year in both archery and shotgun seasons. For the first time in memory, I never took the safety off my shotgun or .50 cal all season. Personal choice. By the same token I see literally dozens of photos in NY Antler facebook page of awesome bucks killed statewide. My inward feelings level of jealousy, envy or scorn? Zero. Maybe negative readings. Same for guys who caught 1,000 rats or more this season in NY to my current 101. I'm happy for them, couldn't care less about comparisons. There are those of us who don't care to measure up, and other men who would stop at nothing in the world to be crowned "all-time greatest ever" at whatever.
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Post by nightwish on Jan 7, 2013 23:44:06 GMT -5
Being in the sales and service industries for 20+ yrs, I study human behavior and psychology. I have found for the most part, hunters and trappers are Alpha type males. We are sometimes intelligent, stubborn, assuming or investigative and enjoy having our own way. Its not bad thing...its the hard wired nature of some men. When we congregate, we cant always get along. Take 2 male dogs and put them in a cage together...they will fight almost immediately, one will submit and the dominance order is set. With us humans, if we spend too much time together...there may be friction. Enter in greed and these social networks and you have a perfect scenario for bullying, backbiting and even worse. I am guilty of it as well as others. But with maturity comes awareness and understanding..and even forgiveness.
I was thinking today how people in my life over the past 5 yrs have come full circle and/or moved on...in this trapping game. Foe is now friend...and past forgotten. Most people go thru life not even knowing their own kookery or wrong doings...lost in their own world...every body wrong and everybody out to get them. Its truly sad.
I learned a lot about forgiveness and friendship on a recent trip to NM. I also learned a lot about trust and was for the first time in my life, fully challenged to take the high road. I took it...but I also have a lot of awareness and self understanding. I dont like my own kookery...
Like the man said though..."Cant we all just get along?"
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Post by mexicantrapper on Jan 8, 2013 0:08:42 GMT -5
[I'm a 100% mature-buck hunter myself. I passed up point-blank shots at several 1.5 and 2.5 year old bucks this year in both archery and shotgun seasons. If not to satisfy your ego, Why? You are admittedly a trophy hunter. PS readers, Just because 2 men disagree doesn't mean they can't be friends. I am much more mature than that as is Austin, i'm sure.
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Post by nightwish on Jan 8, 2013 1:30:08 GMT -5
Mole hit the nail on the head, greed. Two years ago I shot the biggest deer of my 30 years of bow hunting. A pass-through shot in a cut corn field, broad side at 25 yards with 30 minutes of daylight left. It ran straight across the field and onto the adjoining posted property. I left and went directly to the owner's house where he gave me permission to retrieve the deer at first light. The next morning I found great blood where the deer went into the hedge row and followed it 50 yards to a gut pile and an atv drag trail. Yes the ECO came but could not prove they took the buck because he couldn't find him. As a hunter, the only reason someone would tag or take another hunter's harvest is GREED. With that said, here's the other side of the coin. While hunting with a cousin he shot a buck, his first, with what was definitly a fatal hit. As the deer ran over the ridge we heard another shot. When we got there a man was standing over the deer. He asked if one of us had shot the deer my cousin said yes. The man congradulated him and explained that he watched the deer go down and only finished him so he wouldn't get away. Two very different stories. The property owner that claimed my deer in the first story is a hunter. The man in the second story that taught two young hunters a lesson is a sportsman. That is the difference and the reason I hunt, fish and trap. I throw a red flag here. Do you know WHO took it? if I happened unto a fresh shot deer and no one had tagged it, i might tag it myself...then inquire about it...but still, i would not let it go to waste. You're assuming that anyone who doesn't want to see game go to waste is greedy..which isn't true.
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Post by trappermac on Jan 8, 2013 5:59:37 GMT -5
Some great responses here, I think Austin captured the gist of the issue well with his first post. Deer hunting is big business, hence the outdoor shows focus on deer hunting and all big game hunters want to take the trophy that Bucky on ESPN takes regularly, and all he has to do is buy the latest gizmo being advertised on the prgram and he will enjoy success. So he spends $600 on scent free clothing, puts in food plots, tricks out teh ATV, litters the landscape with his trail cameras and after seeing a big buck in "his" woods he fixates on it, it will justify the costs and satisfy the ego. And nobody better get in the way of him taking his buck, after all, he has spent countless dollars preparing for this.....
But in all this man has lost his connection to the outdoors and instead of being woodsman have become deer shooters. Ethics take a backseat to greed and the picture of a great buck is all one needs to be considered a "hunter". Sad. But we are living in a drive-thru society where nobody better cut in line ahead of us while waiting to get that burger or coffee. Less places to hunt, land leases, big business and Bucky on the TV. All adds up.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
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Post by austinp on Jan 8, 2013 7:54:04 GMT -5
If not to satisfy your ego, Why? You are admittedly a trophy hunter. PS readers, Just because 2 men disagree doesn't mean they can't be friends. I am much more mature than that as is Austin, i'm sure. I think there is a big difference between self-satisfaction and achievement for the sake of versus contests, competitions and keeping scores. I've been in group hunts for whitetails twice where a big buck was shot, and each time one or two guys who thought they had the inside track or "claim" to those deer (I put the first bullet in him before he went two more miles in five hours) stopped speaking to everyone else. Now mind you most of us were genuinely thrilled to be part of the harvest, a little bit envious as natural but by no means did that start to overshadow the group fun of a successful hunt. But having one or two guys pout like six year olds who lost the sandlot baseball game? Inexcusible. I played men's and coed softball for ten years and if there were still local leagues, I'd still be playing. I'm as competitive a sportsman in the field of sports as anyone else out there. But when it comes to harvesting wildlife and enjoying the great outdoors? It ain't tennis or rugby. It's recreation and cameraderie, it is centering one's human soul.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2013 8:10:35 GMT -5
Let's just cut to the chase. My weeny is bigger than yours. Got it! And dont forget it!
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
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Post by austinp on Jan 8, 2013 8:21:06 GMT -5
Let's just cut to the chase. My weeny is bigger than yours. Got it! And dont forget it! you got a barnwall shot to prove it? and are the pics real, or photoshopped? <lololol>
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Post by herm on Jan 8, 2013 8:51:02 GMT -5
To go along some what on Austins post about deer hunting in groups,back when I used to deer hunt I was usually the one to do all the walking becouse the others either did not know the land or were in to bad of shape to climb the hills.I would take such "hunters" and set them down in a certain spot.Then I would circle around climbing the steep hills and the come back threw the worst area around to walk as that was where the deer would be hiding.Then after the deer would go right up to the person I had setting on his butt waiting for the deer to come to him I would often hear him tell the story of how he got "his" deer.It didnt bother me becouse if I didnt like the person I wouldnt have done it for him in the first place.
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Post by mexicantrapper on Jan 8, 2013 8:59:49 GMT -5
If not to satisfy your ego, Why? You are admittedly a trophy hunter. PS readers, Just because 2 men disagree doesn't mean they can't be friends. I am much more mature than that as is Austin, i'm sure. I think there is a big difference between self-satisfaction and achievement for the sake of versus contests, competitions and keeping scores. I've been in group hunts for whitetails twice where a big buck was shot, and each time one or two guys who thought they had the inside track or "claim" to those deer (I put the first bullet in him before he went two more miles in five hours) stopped speaking to everyone else. Now mind you most of us were genuinely thrilled to be part of the harvest, a little bit envious as natural but by no means did that start to overshadow the group fun of a successful hunt. But having one or two guys pout like six year olds who lost the sandlot baseball game? Inexcusible. I played men's and coed softball for ten years and if there were still local leagues, I'd still be playing. I'm as competitive a sportsman in the field of sports as anyone else out there. But when it comes to harvesting wildlife and enjoying the great outdoors? It ain't tennis or rugby. It's recreation and cameraderie, it is centering one's human soul. Agree whole heartedly!! I think we're on the same page just wording it differently.
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