austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
|
Post by austinp on Jun 4, 2012 16:54:18 GMT -5
Get a solid deer managment plan in place. in your opinion, what would that be? how would it impact recreational hunting and license sales = P.R. act tax revenue for wildlife? bump
|
|
|
Post by walleyed on Jun 4, 2012 17:17:47 GMT -5
[quote author=aj board=general thread=23010 post=125254 time=13388453[/quote]
Instead of spending your money on a hunt club, buy some land, then open it to the general public so they can hunt deer as well.[/quote]
AJ,
Do I detect a slight Hint of Ball Busting going on Here ?
LOL
walleyed
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 17:59:10 GMT -5
in your opinion, what would that be? how would it impact recreational hunting and license sales = P.R. act tax revenue for wildlife? bump The least of my concerns would be PR act tax revenue. Tree huggers and trail walkers pay nothing in special licenses and get the same privelages and voice as me. Make it mandatory to harvest at least one non-antlered deer, before you get the one buck tag you will get for the season..... unless you harvest two more antlerless deer. Shorten the season (shoot or get off the pot) At the end of the day........... IMO, trophy deer hunting has been the demise of all other types of hunting. I despise it. I can respect a nice buck, I can respect the want to hunt for a wall hanger.............. but don't tell me or anyone else they cant shoot a four point if they so choose.
|
|
austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
|
Post by austinp on Jun 4, 2012 18:03:33 GMT -5
For those who actually have some suggestions on what can be done and perhaps done better, the fact is deer herd populations statewide are overall down. That was admitted by the state last year when DMP permits were issued to license-buying, Pittman Robertson act supporting sportsmen opened their wallets at the license counter. Exactly why herd numbers are down is debatable and subject to speculation. As usual, it's probably a confluence of factors.
From a selfish standpoint, my family owns 100+ acres of primo deer and turkey habitat bordering the north end of Letchworth State Park. My family was also all in dairy when I grew up, so I have all kinds of permissions to hunt ample ground for big game. I also know the inner sections of Letchworth, Rattlesnake Hill and Hi-Tor wma units which if one digs hard enough can find a lot of game deep inside.
So I don't have a problem finding deer for myself, and I'm a mature buck hunter besides. If necessary, I'd gladly join a deer lease and adhere to the QDM rules most have in place. Who is going to lease private ground for big money and whack spikers & button bucks? But if many large landowners shut off all public access and turn to summer kill permits for deer management, the only game left in town will be public lands or trophy leases for deer hunting.
Part of the reason why trophy buck leases exist to begin with stems from lack of access for free. A dwindling number of licesned hunters in NY cannot find enough private ground to access for free, so they're forced to pool money and lease what they can or it gets real crowded there in a hurry.
If all farmlands were still open to hunting like they were decades ago, there would be scant few trophy buck leases at all.
On an unselfish note, I feel bad for the hunters out there today who find less land to access all the time. Then I see farms of 1,000 to 2,000+ acres that only let a handful of family members hunt, and line up first to grab max number of summer kill permits to blast wet does and nursing fawns, 4.5 year old bucks and everything in between long before you buy your hunting license for next year.
|
|
austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
|
Post by austinp on Jun 4, 2012 18:04:26 GMT -5
The least of my concerns would be PR act tax revenue. Tree huggers and trail walkers pay nothing in special licenses and get the same privelages and voice as me. Make it mandatory to harvest at least one non-antlered deer, before you get the one buck tag you will get for the season..... unless you harvest two more antlerless deer. Shorten the season (shoot or get off the pot) At the end of the day........... IMO, trophy deer hunting has been the demise of all other types of hunting. I despise it. I can respect a nice buck, I can respect the want to hunt for a wall hanger.............. but don't tell me or anyone else they cant shoot a four point if they so choose. I agree with all that, every bit
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 20:42:58 GMT -5
Has anyone givin any thought too the possibility of the bowhunters with there sofisticated arsenal of compound bows, stealth scouting cameras and scentlock suits my be the reason for less numbers in the deer herds? Being that the states ECOs are over worked and understaffed that it makes it real easy for the archers too sucessfully take more deer then they are allowed being there are not as many hunters in the woods too see such activity and it is also silent death you can basically sneek onto any piece of property with out being detected with the early foliage cover and no sound of a discharged firearm to make a kill making it easy too illegally harvest a deer or many deer and get away with it knowing DEC can not patrol or investigate a problem on private land without consent of the land owner . There are guys killing more then there fair share of deer during bow season and sad part is they will never get caught if they play there cards right.
|
|
|
Post by clt on Jun 5, 2012 5:21:20 GMT -5
Actually AJ I am up to go look at a farm this morning.I have wanted my own land for a long time.Whatever I buy will be open to family and friends.I can tell you I will never need a nuisance permit.I belong to a hunting club for more than the deer hunting,there are old friends and excellent fishing and a place I can take my kids camping in the summer without the hassles that come with state parks.Plus I prefer big woods deer hunting.I've bow hunted on farms and generally speaking they are good places to kill does and add meat to the freezer but it just isn't the same.A lot of folks join clubs because they can't afford to buy a reasonably sized piece of land and access to land is so restricted it is the only way they can get a decent hunting opportunity.That was my case for a long time.
|
|
|
Post by trappermac on Jun 5, 2012 6:56:36 GMT -5
Has anyone givin any thought too the possibility of the bowhunters with there sofisticated arsenal of compound bows, stealth scouting cameras and scentlock suits my be the reason for less numbers in the deer herds? Being that the states ECOs are over worked and understaffed that it makes it real easy for the archers too sucessfully take more deer then they are allowed being there are not as many hunters in the woods too see such activity and it is also silent death you can basically sneek onto any piece of property with out being detected with the early foliage cover and no sound of a discharged firearm to make a kill making it easy too illegally harvest a deer or many deer and get away with it knowing DEC can not patrol or investigate a problem on private land without consent of the land owner . There are guys killing more then there fair share of deer during bow season and sad part is they will never get caught if they play there cards right. Well that is again, opinion. Statements without fact. I can say that I've been a bowhunter for more than 40 years and actively involved with NYB and have belonged to many clubs. I've hunted with many bowhunters and am friends with many. I've never known a bowhunter that was unethical in those 40 years. I've only known hard working, passionate bowhunters with woodsmanship skills and high respect for the animal. That's not to say there aren't bad apples as there are in any facet of hunting or trapping or fishing, but to generalize bowhunters as being unethical is not warranted and is a slap in the face to any bowhunter on here. I don't think the DEC is ignorant to the effect of bowhunting on the deer herd, in fact we will see an Oct. 1st opener this year in the Southern zone which expands the season. That would not happen if the DEC felt that the bowhunting pressure was a factor.
|
|
|
Post by trappermac on Jun 5, 2012 6:57:07 GMT -5
What the hell happened to the formatting in this thread?
|
|
|
Post by clt on Jun 5, 2012 7:11:18 GMT -5
What the hell happened to the formatting in this thread? X2
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 7:19:26 GMT -5
Sorry Mac but the truth of the matter is bowhunters shoot more then they are alotted if this wasn't fact i wouldn't of said what i said you may be and all your freinds may be legal eagles but for the most part sportsmen are not law abiding citizens how many times are there many discussions of a Po'd trapper on here talking about another person disregard for the law ? All the time do you think bowhuntwers escape the same MENTALLITY come on mr get real.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 7:38:56 GMT -5
What the hell happened to the formatting in this thread? It's the T-mann curse!
|
|
|
Post by trappermac on Jun 5, 2012 8:05:08 GMT -5
Sorry Mac but the truth of the matter is bowhunters shoot more then they are alotted if this wasn't fact i wouldn't of said what i said . Show me the facts....is all I can say, other than your personal opinion. "For the most part sportsman are not law abiding citizens"...I don't even know how to reply to this. If that's your view of sportsman I certainly hope that you never intend to represent any of us. That statement goes against any organization that fights for your right to bear arms, just for starters.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 8:18:47 GMT -5
can't tell you how many times in idol conversation you here a guy bragging he caught 30 fish the day they stocked the streams or even better yet that a man gets up in front of our gun club and says i have 18 hind quarters in which him and dad shot themselves for our game dinner so were all set no need for any more venison. when you are not involved in the political end of an organization you really hear the BS that goes on in the real world
|
|
|
Post by trappermac on Jun 5, 2012 8:26:35 GMT -5
Sounds like you need to find a better gun club, or better yet...use the DEC hotline for reporting violators....I have, it's painless. Figure if I ain't part of the solution then I'm part of the problem.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 8:48:25 GMT -5
Many of times i have had a conversation with DEC in regard too this issue and have fell on deaf ears the insurance co and the big money citidiots that own big property and want every deer dead is the driving force why things in this valley are way out of hand deer are a nuisance where i live remember a few years back there was a big thing about vassar college and a deer cull well i only live a bout 25 miles from where that happened . deer and wildlife take a back seat to illegal dumpers and polluters . ASked my eco one day what they were going too do after they got done tagging my bobcats and you know what i was told, i have too go from store too store and make sure store owners are following the 5cent bottle return laws give me a break !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 9:05:51 GMT -5
Buckbuster, while I am not always pro DEC. Take the time this year to come with Von to the youth trappers camp. You will meet some real DEC folks there, and can discuss things.
|
|
|
Post by oakhilltrappin on Jun 5, 2012 13:38:41 GMT -5
I can respect the want to hunt for a wall hanger.............. but don't tell me or anyone else they cant shoot a four point if they so choose. AMEN Brother !!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 15:39:19 GMT -5
And by the way BIG MAC!!!!!! i have never considered myself a sportsmen but a wildlife control specialist choosen by the good lord above to keep all the abundant renewable wildlife resorces in check!!!!!!!!!! ;D
|
|
|
Post by bobsamuelson on Jun 5, 2012 16:52:07 GMT -5
As many of you know, the farm that surrounds my house was leased by a hunting club 10 years ago. I had trapped there for 20 years, before my wife's grandfather sold it, rather than let houses be built on it.
I talked to the farmer 2 weeks ago, (Poison Hemlock thread) and he is getting real tired of the number of fox and coyotes running around! I stated that the president of the club won't let me trap. He smiled and stated he will be talking to him about that! I am not getting my hopes up, but...
My point is, to me it appears that this farmer isn't getting a satisfactory return for the $ the lease gives him! There nights when I can look out my window and see 15+ deer in the hay lot! Is this good wildlife management? Having only 8 members of the club, each shooting only 1 deer per season on average, doesn't control the population one bit! Adding an antler restriction will only increase the population, resulting in increased damage to the habitat.
As AJ stated, if I want to shoot a 4 pointer on the only day I get to hunt, that should be my choice! In kind of a stretch comparison, how about bass fisherman can only keep one fish and it has to be 15 inches long, and a male! Just sayin'!
|
|
|
Post by mikespring on Jun 5, 2012 16:56:51 GMT -5
;D " the president of the club wont let me trap" you trap all around that property bob..east and west...to make the assumtion you have to be right behind your house is micro managing at best...Maybe i`m reading your post wrong...I don`t know, but I do know the area like the back of my hand...
|
|
|
Post by bobsamuelson on Jun 5, 2012 17:38:08 GMT -5
You are right, Mike, I trap several properties around this one, but, I know for a fact, regardless of the other properties, I can catch 8+ more red fox out here every year! I have done it in the past, and it still can be done. Other that ownership change, the layout has not changed and the travel ways are the same. I know, I have looked at them several times each year since I have not been able to trap there.
|
|
|
Post by renny on Jun 6, 2012 7:08:03 GMT -5
I hope NY takes a good look at PAs deer management practices before making any major decisions........
|
|
|
Post by trappermac on Jun 6, 2012 7:31:50 GMT -5
wildlife control specialist choosen by the good lord ;D I knew it, alot of religious overtones in your posts.... ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2012 7:32:14 GMT -5
They won't as this is the SAME group that got the ar's passed through the legislation last year and from what i here they are trying too get a 11 month coyote season passed by the same means.
|
|