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Post by beaverblaster on Jun 2, 2012 18:53:10 GMT -5
Beware deer hunters! The NY Sportsmen's Advisory Council members [ Executive Committee ]have been hand selected by the DEC and are anti deer hunter or should I say they are not deer hunter friendly. This is a fact. They are for one the same old group of guys that are involved with CANY, Trappers, NYSCC. Despite that the majority of deer hunters support protecting immature yearling bucks from harvest to provide us deer hunters with more opportunity they continue to fight us. That's right, fight us deer hunters. These guys have been hand selected by the DEC because they vote against protecting yearling bucks. Gorgon Batcheller and Pat Riexinger do not care about better deer hunting as their records reflect. Go ahead and try to join you will not be let in so tell me who do they represent, not us that is for sure. If this group wants to claim they represent sportsmen then let us deer hunters in and support us. You will see most likely that will never happen. Check the voting record of all these guys in the group they are not deer hunter friendly. This group should not get support, funding or recognition until they represent the majority of deer hunters in NYS. Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- conservationist All-Rounder Jr. Member Posts: 50 Re: Anti deer hunter group ! Beware !!! « Reply #1 on: Yesterday at 03:26:58 PM » I am thoroughly confused... -See, Tom! I can admit when I don't know something! What has the NY Sportsmen's Advisory Council done that is so 'anti deer-hunter'? I know nothing about this organization. Logged ''Any time you have an opportunity to make a difference in this world and you don't, then you are wasting your time on Earth." -Roberto Clemente -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike G Hero Member Posts: 648 I'm older than dirt Re: Anti deer hunter group ! Beware !!! « Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 03:53:21 PM » Here is a link www.theoutdoorwire.com/story/1333095175bgv8styjj8tCoondog - based on the members credentials they don't sound anti deer hunter.. Please enlighten me. Logged Treat the earth well, It was not given to you by your parents, It was loaned to you by your children. Indian Proverb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scot HVS Ambassador Super Hero Member Posts: 2387 Re: Anti deer hunter group ! Beware !!! « Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 04:01:21 PM » Their history has been that they are anti AR. Kevin Haight and Charlie Fiscella present and past Presidents of Hudson Valley QDMA could give you an earful as likely could our own dick Henry. Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dinsdale HVS Ambassador Super Hero Member Posts: 1633 Re: Anti deer hunter group ! Beware !!! « Reply #4 on: Yesterday at 06:30:51 PM » Quote from: conservationist on Yesterday at 03:26:58 PM I am thoroughly confused... You're not the only one. Quote from: Scot on Yesterday at 04:01:21 PM Their history has been that they are anti AR. Kevin Haight and Charlie Fiscella present and past Presidents of Hudson Valley QDMA could give you an earful as likely could our own dick Henry. I thought that was another alphabet soup group? Logged Folks watch too much TV. And they put their tin foil hats on wrong. The shiny side goes out. They often put the shiny side in; and it sets up a loop of thoughts that are trapped, and this melts their brain. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2.5 + Jr. Member Posts: 55 Re: Anti deer hunter group ! Beware !!! « Reply #5 on: Today at 11:46:32 AM » I was going to go to this event/fund raiser today www.hudsonvalleysportsman.com/index.php/topic,6905.0.html listed on the events form. I call some other members of HVS and the Ulster federation to come with me and was told not to support this group as the money will fund the new advisory committee. That committee is our old friends from NYSCC and others that represent their personal views and not that of the majority of sportsmen in NY. The easyest example in on the issue of yearling buck protection but by no means is it the only example. There was a thread on this a year ago or so where members contacted the NYSCC officers and they misrepresented the rules and surveys. So as I understand it the new group is just giving further voice to the same groups and people that are fighting against the majority of sportsmen especially on the issue of yeariling buck protection with antler restrictions. Until the new groups supports in writing YBP and the majority of NY sportsmen we should all steer clear. With out that documented we know that the new group members will go around telling our representatives their own opinions as what the sportsmen believe. It is a little strange how this group just popped up now. We know for sure many of the member groups have opposed ARs. It is weird to post the listing asking for support at here at HVS where the survey showed that 92% support antler restrictions. Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- paulangling HVS Sponsor Full Member Posts: 171 Re: Anti deer hunter group ! Beware !!! « Reply #6 on: Today at 04:32:55 PM » The acronym soup is indeed dizzying. After following Mike G's link I'm finding the people involved look to be rather pro hunter (Turkey Federation, NYS Rifle & Pistol, NRA, NYS Trappers). I don't want to hijack the thread into an AR discussion, but AR and deer regulations would seem to have little to do with each other? I don't understand how anything that holds more than a few rounds would be wise to use for hunting. Logged Paul's Angling Journal paulangling.wordpress.com/-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Send this topic Print Pages: [1] Go Up « previous next » Hudson Valley Sportsman » Hunting- In The New York Hudson Valley Area » BIG GAME HUNTING » Anti deer hunter group ! Beware !!! Jump to: => BIG GAME HUNTING The good old HUDSON VALLEY DEER HUGGERS!!!!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2012 19:05:49 GMT -5
What's this supposed to be? April Fools? Let people choose what kind of deer they want to shoot. Amen.
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Post by Brunner on Jun 2, 2012 19:10:03 GMT -5
92% support antler restrictions?? Where was that poll taken??
I know there are many who do support the antler restrictions, but it's a far cry from 92%.
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Post by pockets on Jun 2, 2012 19:41:02 GMT -5
No most hunters do not support antler restrictions just the ego maniacs. You all watch to much tv. If you spent more time in the woods you would actually kill something other than yearlings. The mid west does not have antler restrictions they have very short gun seasons that is why they have trophy animals. Oh heaven forbid we only have a one week gun season right No one wants to talk about that. So lets take away the rights of other hunters who pay the same amount for their tags to get what we want as trophy hunters(so called). The facts don't lie you just choose not to look at them when they do not support what you want, sounds like a typical democrat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so kill what you want and what makes you happy and leave all the other hunters alone. you want glory for killing a big buck then put in the time and do it. While you are at you may want to enjoy the hunt!!!!!
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Post by ponyboy on Jun 2, 2012 19:56:02 GMT -5
I love eating yearling bucks..........
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Post by bballou on Jun 2, 2012 20:17:24 GMT -5
Freedom of CHOICE----not something forced on ya---- the way of the American ---- not the Liberal. Me ---I never ate a horn---dont want to----I want to shoot and eat my choice.
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Post by ponyboy on Jun 2, 2012 20:27:00 GMT -5
Some guys want to get the deer tags ( meat tags) filled and get back to trapping....
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Post by Dave Miller on Jun 2, 2012 21:13:56 GMT -5
The members of the NY Sportsman's Advisory Council (NYSAC) is made up of people nominated by the N.Y. state Legislative Caucus (NYSLC). NYSLC is made up of members of the N.Y.State Senate and Assembly who are supporters of all sportsmen and women. The D.E.C. has nothing what so ever to do with either of these groups, and had nothing whatever to do with choosing members of either. I am a member of NYSAC and a part of the Executive Board , and I assure you the information here is correct. I also assure you that Neither NYSAC or the Executive Board of NYSAC is anti deer hunting or any other reasonable hunting, fishing or trapping issue. We are, however, most adamantly opposed to legislating wildlife management and that is what this post is really all about. We, sportsmen and women, must not allow the legislature to take that authority away from the wildlife professionals in the D.E.C.. If a large majority of sportsmen and women in any particular area want antler restrictions (what the a.r. people like to pass off as "young buck protection") they can go to the D.E.C. and ask for it. Maybe better yet they can simply chose to practice such on their own properties; whatever. But hear this----- do not be fooled into allowing htis sort of thing to be done legislativly; this will only lead to the demise of all that we fight for and believe in.
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Post by Itrapny on Jun 3, 2012 6:26:48 GMT -5
Good post Dave....great to finally have you on the site
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2012 6:32:13 GMT -5
Well i see the guys on the hudson valley sportsmen site are at it again there is so much crap that gets thrown around there it is not funny they have no clue how much there nonsense really hurts the sportsmen through out the state. What really pi$$i$ me off is the attack on Gordon there is a man that has dedicated and helped so many of the sportsmen in this state iit isn't funny and just because he didn't backup these horn hungry wantabes on there ARS they back doored him and went too there legislators and pushed there antler restrictions through them.
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Post by clt on Jun 3, 2012 7:01:55 GMT -5
Out of curiosity,if someone supports antler restrictions that makes them AR?I choose not to shoot yearling bucks for personal reasons,I use my archery and muzzleloader tags for does to cover my "meat deer". I don't support antler restrictions personally and I do not support our legislature having any say over game laws.But what are you going to say when and if we end up with DEC personnel advocating for antler restrictions?There is a steadily rising opinion that antler restrictions are a good thing amongst deer hunters,especially amongst the QDM crowd.There are more and more large deer clubs implementing antler restrictions,I know guys that won't pay to hunt on a club that doesn't have antler restrictions.Like I said,I don't personally support forced restrictions,I think it should be left up to the hunter that's holding the rifle,it is a personal choice.I also believe though that antler restrictions are in the cards for NY's future.For the record there is a difference between someone that prefers the challenge and thrill of only killing a mature buck than a "trophy hunter" or someone that is looking for some kind of fame.A "trophy" hunter is all about the horns and score,someone that takes on the added challenge of only hunting mature bucks simply for the value of the experience don't value the score of the horns.I would rather kill a big woods 200 lb 6.5 yr old with a "small" rack than a farm raised 3.5 year old 140 lb animal with a "large" rack myself.The older the animal is the more of a challenge it presents and hunting is about the challenge,at least it is for me.
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Post by trappermac on Jun 3, 2012 7:09:28 GMT -5
All part of our "drive thru" society that we live in. We want it quick, easy, and super-sized. We're quickly losing the core hunting values that those from earlier generations revered. We live in a technology driven world where we expect everything at the touch of a button. We think what we see on TV is the real world. We all want Bucky's 12 pt buck. We want recognition, bragging rights, like beating a video game. We've lost the desire to take a canoe up the Saranac River and put in a 3 day spike camp or backpack into the Moose River Plains and "hope" for a chance at a decent deer. Instead we manage food plots and post our lands, monitor our video cameras and build elaborate stands so that we can step out of our vehicles and take a buck that everyone will want to see and therefore think I'm a great hunter. Reality TV. And then we are stooped into thinking that if we have the latest technology in terms of weaponry that our chances go up. We do not wish to learn to become hunters, but rather better killers. We become shooters. Woodsmanship is gone forever except for a few. Shoot a big buck and get your picture in a paper.
And so the bickering will continue, and when the smoke clears the winner will always lean in the direction of money.....not what is best for the wildlife and hunting in general, but rather what pads politicians pockets and what favors are owed and what will generate instant monetary gratification to the state. It starts and ends with money, always.
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Post by clt on Jun 3, 2012 7:38:39 GMT -5
trappermac, I would take that canoe/hunting trip for a decent buck with ya.LOL You are correct,woodsmanship is a lost art.As you say most deer hunters just want to go off the road 50 yards and kill something and if it don't happen in an hour or so they are done for the day.I hear people complain there isn't enough deer around this area any more.There are still a lot of deer but with all the doe hunting the last 15 years up here,which is needed in my opinion for herd health,the deer are just warier.You used to see 20 does a day in the big woods,before all the doe permits and such,now you have to hunt them the same as bucks.After many years of does not receiving pressure and getting shot at they had become less wary.When I was a teenager,where I grew up hunting, does would watch you sit down or climb into a stand and barely pay attention to you,they would go back to feeding.Does had almost zero fear of a man because they had never been shot at or harassed.When they began to allow does to be taken in our area with muzzleloaders,then a few years later began issuing doe permits during rifle season there was a big dent put in the population quickly and the ones that survived became ultra wary.An old educated doe is just as hard to kill as an old battle scarred buck.The deer are still there but have become educated,people that grew up seeing 20-30 deer a day just sitting randomly in the woods and never adjusted their hunting strategies don't cope well.Hunting an educated older deer is a completely different ball game.That is where the woodsmanship comes in.If you got 25 deer per square mile,then reduce it to 3-5 you can figure out pretty quick if you really understand the animal your hunting.The plus side to fewer does is much better buck hunting.They actually have to move around to find a doe.We never saw rut sign or activity when it was buck only and there were tons of does running around.Now we see rut activity and sign,mid day chasing,many more mature bucks running around.I like it that way myslef.LOL I would rather see 20-30 deer a season and kill a decent deer than to see 20-30 a day and never see anything except the occasional spike horn,that's kind of boring if you ask me...
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Post by Itrapny on Jun 3, 2012 7:46:14 GMT -5
You'll notice that the big push for antler restrictions is downstate where I believe the majority of the "hunters"are from NYC and come to "hunt" the trophy of a lifetime and not put meat on the table
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Post by trappermac on Jun 3, 2012 8:04:14 GMT -5
You'll notice that the big push for antler restrictions is downstate where I believe the majority of the "hunters"are from NYC and come to "hunt" the trophy of a lifetime and not put meat on the table And that is where the money is, where the strings of Albany are pulled from, and therefore where the influence is and ultimately the winner.
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Post by pockets on Jun 3, 2012 8:31:32 GMT -5
CLT, YOU choosing to take a mature deer does not put you in the AR crowd because you are making that choice not anyone else. I also choose not to shoot yearling bucks. I do not look down or criticize anyone who does. Shoot what makes you happy and every hunter is different. We all have different amounts of time to hunt and that changes from year to year so that may change what you may shoot from year to year. The only book a deer has to make is MINE. Like I said in a earlier post if they want trophy animals have a 1 week gun season and a long bow season and they will get what they want without infringing on everyone elses rights. The states that produce trophy class animals consistantly year in and year out have limited gun seasons. Antler restrictions were proven not to work in a study done in mississippi and also in the west on mule deer. As far as a one week gun season will never happen, because most of these guys they are not skilled enough to get a trophy animal close enough to kill with a bow. The game laws should only be set by the DEC not the legislature.
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Post by Itrapny on Jun 3, 2012 8:56:39 GMT -5
Maybe we're approaching this from the wrong angle as one of the biggest proponent's for a longer deer season are the auto insurance companies.....if we can get them to leverage the legislature to remove antler restrictions and increase doe permits we may have something
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Post by walleyed on Jun 3, 2012 9:04:12 GMT -5
I am a Trophy buck hunter. I shoot does to fill my freezer. If it doesn't have 8 points or better, I let them walk.
I don't always shoot a gagger every year, but if I don't see one with at least eight point, my tag goes unfilled. I hunt almost exclusively on Public land. all of these things are my PERSONAL CHOICE.
I am dead set against mandatory antler restrictions, or any move by the legistlature to manage our wildlife populations.
Nobody has any right to ram their personal Deer Hunting ethics down another deer hunters throat.
I believe in personal choice as far as what kind of buck a hunter chooses to shoot.
Trophy Buck Management on private lands is the single most detrimental reason for loss of hunting, fishing, and trapping opportunities on non-public lands, and now these elitists want to extend that to public lands as well.
Over my dead body.
walleyed
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Post by rivervalleytrapr on Jun 3, 2012 9:07:38 GMT -5
You know I keep hearing that a majority of deer hunters want antler restrictions but have yet to talk with more than a couple that do. I personnally feel that having ARs will greatly reduce the percentage of bucks with no brow tines.
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Post by ponyboy on Jun 3, 2012 10:45:25 GMT -5
Antler restrictions are closey related to the European system of hunting. Under that system the elite land barons control the harvest of wildlife. They also believe they are morally superior and therefore more qualified to manage what is harvested. Most of the higher ups in the animal rights movement were raised under the European system. Do not shoot the Kings deer.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2012 19:04:59 GMT -5
I am a Trophy buck hunter. I shoot does to fill my freezer. If it doesn't have 8 points or better, I let them walk. I don't always shoot a gagger every year, but if I don't see one with at least eight point, my tag goes unfilled. I hunt almost exclusively on Public land. all of these things are my PERSONAL CHOICE. I am dead set against mandatory antler restrictions, or any move by the legistlature to manage our wildlife populations. Nobody has any right to ram their personal Deer Hunting ethics down another deer hunters throat. I believe in personal choice as far as what kind of buck a hunter chooses to shoot. Trophy Buck Management on private lands is the single most detrimental reason for loss of hunting, fishing, and trapping opportunities on non-public lands, and now these elitists want to extend that to public lands as well. Over my dead body. walleyed Tell us how you really feel
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
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Post by austinp on Jun 3, 2012 19:37:20 GMT -5
I don't even consider shooting a buck smaller than 130" by personal choice, because I can shoot enough does to fill a freezer if I take the time away from trapping to do so. But any hunter that chooses to harvest whatever legal deer they have tags for should never be looked upon in any way other than positive by fellow hunters.
By far the best management practices in NY for deer population would be shorter firearms seasons as noted before, plentiful antlerless tags and massive reduction in damage permits awarded. We pay roughly $120 per year for all licenses and tags available, and go afield on (heavily-posted) lands where a majority of deer were shot and landfilled in August and September.
That type of wanton waste is ridiculous... all because of high crop prices and quick-fix solutions. Let more hunters harvest deer on private lands in season or even special controlled hunts in January versus shoot & shovel program with too many damage permits issued.
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Post by fisherman on Jun 3, 2012 22:59:46 GMT -5
I'm with you Austin regarding a massive reduction in damage permits. What a waste of a resource and so badly abused!!! Sure herds need to be properly managed, but that system certainly is not the way to accomplish that. To me that is nothing but political pressure talking. I agree with shorter seasons . I also feel that coyotes are a huge problem. How many does do you see in August with a set of fawns?In my opinion they are out of control and the situation should be addressed. Having a second home in Pennsylvania, I have seen a huge difference in racks in just a few short years, and as an older hunter that has killed my share I favor antler restrictions, but not shoved down anyone's throat. That should remain an individual decision. I also feel very strongly that DEC professionals should manage fish and wildlife, not the clowns in our legislature, or the Governor. Above all those damage permits need to be well controlled, greatly reduced, and not handed out like candy as they are now.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 4:57:46 GMT -5
Fisherman and Austin you guys make me laugh. What whould your thoughts be if deer destroyed your income every year? Would they still be a noble resource? What if you planted a few thousand dollars worth of plants and they whipped them out in a week? How much land do either of you own? How many people do you let on it to control the deer herd?
The truth is trophy hunting has infected the sport. People are afraid to shoot does because they may scare away that trophy of a lifetime.
I life in an area were 15 years ago, if you missed a shot at a deer, that was your season. Today, it's nothing to see 20 deer on that same land in half a day of hunting.
Deer need to be controlled. If the hunters dont want to do it, let the people who pay for the land control them.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
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Post by austinp on Jun 4, 2012 5:28:42 GMT -5
AJ, I can think of three massive farms in Livingston County alone that are heavily posted, don't allow any hunters except close family and friends but apply for and receive bundles of nuisance permits for summer kill executions.
When I was young, posted signs were a rarity and hunting permission was granted most everywhere you asked. When polled as to why most former hunters quit, the majority reason given is lack of access to land.
In my general areas of Ontario and Livingston counties, deer numbers are down from just several years ago. 8M antlerless permits were halved last season from the season before.
In the deep southern tier zone Steuben county where I used to hunt, fields that once held 15 -50 deer in late winter and spring now hold 1/3 that last year.
I don't advocate eliminating nuisance permits... but why does someone with 2,000 acres who has a major problem with deer post their land for no hunter access? Guys out there looking for some private land places to hunt, some private land places posted against hunting have so many deer they feel need to shoot & bury them in August.
Something doesn't seem right with that equation to me
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