|
Post by papabear on May 12, 2012 10:38:17 GMT -5
Dear Friends, I recently aquired a few dozen #2 Blake and Lamb double long springs.....imo, a gem of a trap.....I will be replacing chains, adding swivels and am pondering installing P.I.T. pans.....Question is are they worth the expense and the trouble to install?..... Regards papabear
|
|
traps82
#3 Newhouse
Hope is always alive
Posts: 3,208
|
Post by traps82 on May 12, 2012 10:46:47 GMT -5
Any DLS trap I own has them on it. Except for the #2 SCs I have. I night latched the dog on those and the pan has a nut and bolt. I LOVE the PIT pans on the long springs!!
|
|
|
Post by clt on May 12, 2012 10:51:41 GMT -5
They greatly improve any longspring.I have them on all my coyote traps longs and coils.Nothing better IMO.
|
|
|
Post by nightstalker1 on May 12, 2012 10:51:48 GMT -5
Order direct from Ed
tell him I sent you
Tom
***************************
Ed Medvetz M-Y Enterprises (Paws-I-Trip Products) 220 S. Lincoln St. Homer City, PA 15748 Ph# (724)479-9442 Fax#(724)479-9275 email: emedvetz@verizon.net
|
|
|
Post by bballou on May 12, 2012 14:51:00 GMT -5
Sorry ---dont like them one little bit.----I see no advantage---lots of dis-advantages----I have always said I will never be to old to learn-----if anyone dont mind PLEASE ---GIVE ME YOUR OPENION OF WHY YOU THINK THEY ARE BETTER--------- thank you very much.
|
|
traps82
#3 Newhouse
Hope is always alive
Posts: 3,208
|
Post by traps82 on May 12, 2012 16:16:48 GMT -5
Bill... On the double longs you now would have a tension able pan and the pan actually sets a bit below the jaws nice and level. Nice crisp pan release. And yes you can do that with the regular pan I guess, but the PIT is so much better IMO. I will see if I can dig one out to get a picture.
|
|
|
Post by bballou on May 12, 2012 16:53:24 GMT -5
82 THANK YOU-----But why not that I dont value your openion----what makes it a better part of the trap? ? is it faster ??-----will I catch more animals? why will it be a better part of my pile of traps ?---- I need a good reason to put money into traps-----when I have a good reason ------ I dont mind one bit putting money into traps. A crisp pan release will not convince me---I can set about any trap up to have a crisp release with a file and not have to spend extra money on something that has it. (May-be) ---I dont mean to be disagreable --but if I am going to put money into traps ---I have to make a profit ---on my investment. Not own pretty traps.
|
|
|
Post by clt on May 12, 2012 17:56:49 GMT -5
Zero wobble,night latch,adjustable tension with a screw,nearly zero pan creep,crisp firing and they fire no matter where on the pan they step.I switched all my coyote traps over and will never use anything else again,no more friggin around with files,dremels,hack saws or whatever method one uses to touch up and adjust their pan posts,dogs and pans.I went from losing 1 out of 4 or 5 coyotes to 1 in 36 this year,same traps,same sets ect, only difference was the Paws-I-Pans.The consistency and no fuss factor goes along way in my book.If one chooses not to utilize them,especially on long spring traps for predators they are missing out.I also experienced far less toe catches and pad catches,almost every animal caught deep,no real iffy catches other than a few toe catches during freeze thaws and very cold temps.I am a believer in them so to speak,I will take any advantage I can when it comes to coyotes.They take a mediocre trap and make it an excellent trap,they take the hassle out of tuning traps and keeping them tuned.
|
|
traps82
#3 Newhouse
Hope is always alive
Posts: 3,208
|
Post by traps82 on May 12, 2012 18:16:06 GMT -5
What CLT said Bill.... What do you have to do to those clamp type pans to get them to work right? I know we should all know how to make them work right, but the PITs are a dream on DLS traps. On my coils.. I simply night latch and go..
|
|
|
Post by bballou on May 12, 2012 21:04:44 GMT -5
clt and 82----I will be the first to say ----we cant all make things work for us as well as others can---but my first run in with PIT pans was with #5 bridgers --on beaver---the exact opposite happened with me ----bad catches ---lots of misses ---rely bad luck (1 year)-------so I never tryed them again---but why cant the wobble be taken out of the pans with washers ----sounds like you can do what you are saying for a lot less money --- Includeing the other adjustments ---with a wrench ---- screwdriver and a file.----I have around 5 dozen PIT"s that have never been used in the shop--(for #5's)---the other dozen went down the road on the traps.We went back to washers and machine serews.---Please dont get the wrong idea---I am in no way saying anything against the way you guys set up your traps---its jest that I cant get the same results ---with the same product.----never tryed them on yotes---figured if I couldent make them work on beaver why try on anything else.-----Jest figured it was another gimmic.
|
|
traps82
#3 Newhouse
Hope is always alive
Posts: 3,208
|
Post by traps82 on May 12, 2012 22:22:56 GMT -5
Bill... I was talking about the stock pans on Vics and B&Ls. The clamp on and the B&L style. And I TOTALLY get what you say. You sure as heck have only ever steered me in the right direction!! You taught me more about fisher and otters over the phone than gosh knows how long it would have taken me to learn
|
|
|
Post by centro44 on May 12, 2012 22:52:37 GMT -5
I take #4 duke coils right out of the box and trap beaver(dyed of course)........why is there a need for a hair trigger? Seems as if you would get alot of toes from a trap that is itching to fire.......like taking a trigger happy person hunting, just isn't going to end good...........someone correct me as I'm not totally sure but if you need a hair trigger for beaver, something with your set can't be right? Pocket sticks will make him drop his feet for a solid step
|
|
traps82
#3 Newhouse
Hope is always alive
Posts: 3,208
|
Post by traps82 on May 12, 2012 22:57:10 GMT -5
By hair trigger, we are referring to no pan creep. Basically when the pan does move down. BANG it fires! I set my #4 DLS traps to fire at 4-5 lbs. I use these for front foot beaver. And trust me, no toe catches.
|
|
|
Post by bballou on May 13, 2012 6:58:35 GMT -5
82 ---clt ---centro44 -----many times I am very thicked skulled about things---but mostly it comes after thinking about something ---and doing the math----math is a very important part of machanics to me----the same thing happened here----after 82 explained the trap setup he was useing it became very clear to me that I had missed a very important part of what was being said -----(how the original pans were fastened.)------ I learn a lot about traps and trapping on this site ----and take very little as gospil ---until I get a chance to check it out. BUT when it comes to the people on this site---99% are all ACE'S in my openion. I am jest one of them people who have to check everything out for them selves. I am still not sold on PIT-s but in 82's case I am----sometimes things are different.
|
|
|
Post by nightstalker1 on May 13, 2012 7:45:25 GMT -5
I have put alot (over 100) of these on #3 and #4 DLS for the cat trappers out west. With cat prices soooo high out west, they ALL want baseplaes, lams and PIT pan systems on their long spring traps. The PIT pans give them a solid pan (no wobble),a nightlatch and adjustable pan tension. With western cats in the $500 - $1500 range, I had to notice this common modification for them as they are not a cheap mod. On the other hand, they are a simple system to install (no welding required)
Ed Medvetz is a genoius ! An old government trapper with the brain of a scientist who at one time made his own SFE (the long method) He even helped set up some chemical companies because of his SFE (synthetic fermented egg) experience.
I have talked to Ed many times on the phone for many hours ( that guy can talk!! LOL) A pleasant man with THOUSANDS of stories related to trapping all over the US
Anyone can deal with Ed direct and he is easily accessable by phone or e-mail
Ed Medvetz M-Y Enterprises (Paws-I-Trip Products) 220 S. Lincoln St. Homer City, PA 15748 Ph# (724)479-9442 Fax#(724)479-9275 email: emedvetz@verizon.net
|
|
tomsnare
It's a good time to be a trapper!
Posts: 514
|
Post by tomsnare on May 13, 2012 9:00:54 GMT -5
I used them on my 44's, liked them a lot ,still cuss myself for ever selling them-Tom
|
|
|
Post by clt on May 13, 2012 11:39:01 GMT -5
I personally don't think they are necessary water trapping,they really shine on land.In the water beaver are used to putting their feet down and feeling movement,mud squishes and compresses under their feet,sticks move when they step on them ect...I believe that goes for just about any animal when in the water,so a wobbly pan,a little creep,differences in pan tension that stuff don't matter as much when a trap is in the water.If you are getting poor catches on beaver I tend to to blame trap placement and guiding.I catch a lot of my beaver in old number 4 jumps,they aren't tuned and adjusted I set them with a little creep on purpose,I don't want them to fire at the slightest touch myself. Where Paws-I-Pans shine is on land where pan creep,wobble,inconsistent pan tension will all cost you animals.Especially canines,they do not like stepping on unstable ground and when something shifts under their foot they move it.With pits when they fire it is a surprise,a certain weight gets reached and bang,they go.To me the biggest advantage is the simplicity of them and the consistency you get.I like to tinker and do my own mods and I can night latch traps,I do it with all my 1.5 dukes I use in the water,but I don't do it with predator and land traps anymore,I catch more animals with them on my land traps,so to me it is simple,I do whatever I can to catch as many animals as I can and tilt the odds in my favor.
|
|
|
Post by bballou on May 13, 2012 15:05:13 GMT -5
WELL clt---you got me to woundering----about the land trapping-----I have a few questions---I want answered before I hop very far into this---- I will take my questions to a couple of design engineering friends----and let you know how I make out. Dont know about the trap placement issue and guiding ---- with the beaver----my problem wasent with that---(I dont think) I dont have any trouble catching beaver--- Jest the PIT's gave me trouble---and if I am having trouble with water I dont see the differance on land. Your explination about the weight fireing the trap---and the trap going in a instant---unstable ground (bedding ) was probably one of the very first lessons I received over 60 years ago---- and I work my butt off to follow those instructions today when trapping K9's. " If I may"----do you wax your traps???-----do you free up your pans 100% ?do you clean the dog and pan areas (touch points) from wax and or dye ? Thank you very much--- sorry to be a pain---but how else does a guy learn in this trapping game? ?
|
|
|
Post by centro44 on May 13, 2012 15:27:06 GMT -5
Did hawbaker have P.I.T. pans in the 40's
|
|
tomsnare
It's a good time to be a trapper!
Posts: 514
|
Post by tomsnare on May 13, 2012 16:31:24 GMT -5
Here is what I have found(so far) pan tension as long as it is light ,a pound or two doesn't matter, pan travel doesn't have to be crisp or "short" I use the KB excluslively for cats&coyotes fox---------this is what I feel is important --pan lower than the jaws----the built in shock springs that tighten when the animal pulls------the other stuff that I use to fret over like chain length spring strength don't matter as much what counts is the design and engineering of the trap look at the traps that are designed by trappers not the knock offs Sterlings,Connors etc they built traps that met their needs and were tested and proven all those things or" stuff" are there because they work and these men saw the need for them ------this might tick off a few but I'll put it out their and chew on it -------if your equipment isn't performing it might be the way it is designed maybe all those gizzmoes you're adding are not addressin the problem------like tryin' to shine a horse turd 10 minutes after it left the horse---------Tom
|
|
oldeman
Fulton Montgomery Fur Harvesters Ass.
Posts: 581
|
Post by oldeman on May 13, 2012 17:52:10 GMT -5
Tom as far as I am concerned for land trapping you hit that nail right on the head.
|
|
|
Post by clt on May 13, 2012 21:42:11 GMT -5
WELL clt---you got me to woundering----about the land trapping-----I have a few questions---I want answered before I hop very far into this---- I will take my questions to a couple of design engineering friends----and let you know how I make out. Dont know about the trap placement issue and guiding ---- with the beaver----my problem wasent with that---(I dont think) I dont have any trouble catching beaver--- Jest the PIT's gave me trouble---and if I am having trouble with water I dont see the differance on land. Your explination about the weight fireing the trap---and the trap going in a instant---unstable ground (bedding ) was probably one of the very first lessons I received over 60 years ago---- and I work my butt off to follow those instructions today when trapping K9's. " If I may"----do you wax your traps???-----do you free up your pans 100% ?do you clean the dog and pan areas (touch points) from wax and or dye ? Thank you very much--- sorry to be a pain---but how else does a guy learn in this trapping game? ? All I do with my traps is dye,no wax anymore.I don't use sodium anti freeze so I don't worry about wax.When I did use wax I dipped them one at a time set,hung to dry and then tripped them.Then I would scrape off the contact points with the edge of a knife.It has been a few years since I waxed but I was using pits on my #2 bridgers when I was still waxing and never saw a real difference.In fact I bought that dozen bridgers all modded up and with the pits and used them that first fall and immediately saw a difference.Then I got into longs a couple seasons back,switched half of them over to pits and again immediately saw the difference in performance.The only traps I have that don't have pits are mb 650's,they don't need any help.LOL Someone mentioned quality of equipment,I run a ton of #2 bridgers,I can buy them 4 coiled and offset for $143 a dozen,add baseplates and jaw lams and the pits and have a dozen top notch coyote traps for under $180.KB's are $25 a piece before lams,if I am going to spend that much on a trap I am buying MB's myself.Since we are talking about quality,there is a reason MB uses pits on their 450's and 550's,it ain't to make them pretty,it's because they are an asset to a well built trap.This is all just personal opinion,use what makes you feel good and you have confidence in.I have handled KB's but don't see any real advantage to the levers acting as levers,it might help them fight the trap a little less or give up the fight a little quicker but a well designed trap like a bridger or a #3 victor long will hold them just as well.I am actually waiting for bridger to come out with their dogless traps to give them a whirl,kind of excited about that actually...
|
|
traps82
#3 Newhouse
Hope is always alive
Posts: 3,208
|
Post by traps82 on May 13, 2012 21:51:12 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by bballou on May 14, 2012 18:52:53 GMT -5
clt ---thank you very much----I appricate your time to answer me-----I cant and wont disagree with your openions and ideas--- after all they are yours. I also have a few Bridger #2 mods.Love them ---I also have a few MB's Love them also----during the hay days I had a few Sterlings---(gave them to my son) Great coyote trap----I have always questioned WHY ---- all my life----there are a lot of Bells and Whistle people even in the trapping industry----they want to sell ya worthless junk---I do my best to control my urges and check things out before I buy a few 100.---and cludder up my shop with junk that cant be used for anything. As far as "82" is concerned ---he's a great guy--and knows I had some bad experiences with dogless traps --and wont own one----He loves to bust on me----HELL I-d do the same to him.---as soon as I get the word from the engineers Ill let you know. BY PM ---Thanks Again
|
|
|
Post by traphead2 on May 14, 2012 18:56:07 GMT -5
I went to pit pans on all my traps several years ago for many reasons includeing the ones stated above,but one reason not stated that i really love is the fact that i can pre set all my traps at home befor i put them in the jeep.all i gotta do at the set is pull the pan down until the dog clicks and im good to go.its alot easier this way on the larger traps and on shorter chains,at least for me that is.
|
|