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Post by Brunner on Apr 5, 2012 19:27:38 GMT -5
In my case, the coyotes had pulled the anchor back up a little ways. In most cases where I noticed the damage to the cable, the coyotes mouths were bloody. I've also had coyotes with bloody mouths where there was no damage to the cable. I imagine that was from chewing on the trap.
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traps82
#3 Newhouse
Hope is always alive
Posts: 3,208
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Post by traps82 on Apr 5, 2012 21:07:39 GMT -5
In my case, the coyotes had pulled the anchor back up a little ways. In most cases where I noticed the damage to the cable, the coyotes mouths were bloody. I've also had coyotes with bloody mouths where there was no damage to the cable. I imagine that was from chewing on the trap. Same here... Dang good post!!
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Post by bballou on Apr 5, 2012 21:12:51 GMT -5
eric---you want to watch out ---this trapping bug is easy to catch.---It may last a life time.
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Post by bballou on Apr 5, 2012 21:42:25 GMT -5
Many times the leg not in the trap ----will have pad damage --- caused by the partly broken cable------- Brunner -- chewing on the trap can cause bleeding---- but most of the time the cable and chain are to blame for the bleeding---the coyote will bite onto the cable or chain and jest pull -----they exert a lot of pressure on there teeth and gums causing bleeding---but the damage is hard to find sometimes ---- I have to tell you guys where I learned this ----- I worked with the county vet for about 5 years ---on a heart worm study--- on wild K9's -- all this damage --- and how it happened --- Dr Mellon pointed out to me. He was a great teacher----I think Dr.Mellon was the first to point out that coyotes might throw mange. Dont remember if he ever proved it or not.
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oldeman
Fulton Montgomery Fur Harvesters Ass.
Posts: 581
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Post by oldeman on Apr 5, 2012 22:36:56 GMT -5
I am sure that most yotes bite on the trap and chain.I use mostly dogless traps because they almost always mangle the dogs on regular traps and I once had a crunchproof swivel all bent up and could tell that it had been bitten.So far I have not had any try to dig out superstake but they almost always pull them back about an inch or so but I am sure that is about when the stake begins to tip in the sandy gravely soil where I trap most.I once had a yote lunge so hard when I shot him that he broke the D ring off the trap.but the superstake did not budge and the chain was fine I dug it out and remade with another trap.
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Post by bballou on Apr 6, 2012 6:29:30 GMT -5
oldeman----this is very interesting to me-----Zagger never had a cable chewed on---- and you told about swivels being bent up by coyotes biting them --- that is something I have never seen---never had a swivel bent by a coyote biting it.---GO FIGURE----I guess happenings like that --- are what have kept me in this game so long---I am sure both swivel and cable biting are a thing that happens all the time---and I am jest as sure there are trappers that never see either done by coyotes.---MY QUESTION IS ----WHY----why do I have coyotes that dig and chew cable ---and you and Zagger don't---Brunner has coyotes doing both but not as aggressive as the ones I encounter ----I have heard that you have to know YOUR PRAY to out smart him -----GUESS I got a lot of learning to do. THE Indians say the last two things that will be alive on earth will be the Coyote and the Raven. I don't disagree.
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Post by trappermac on Apr 6, 2012 7:27:40 GMT -5
Some interesting talk regarding cable stakes. Myself I use HD Berks with 15" of 3/32 cable, they've always worked for me. I may start using the wolf fangs to see if I like them any better....not because the Berks don't hold but to see how they hold up better for reuse. I try to pull every stake when I pull my line using a stake puller but the disc in my back dictates how hard I try. If it don't want to go it gets snipped off as far down as I can get the cable cutters. I make my own stakes, not that pricey that way. Never had a canine chew a cable, I think they are most likely to chew closest to the point of contact...the paw and therefore the trap. I think if you're using very short chains you increase the likelihood of the animal chewing the cable as it is closer to the trap and becomes more a part of the trap. Never had a canine try to dig up a stake but the soil I trap in is not conducive to digging. I think the soil dictates whether an animal digs. I learned that from watching my dog, you can learn a ton from watching your dog if you have one. As for chain stakes I can't understand why unless you just like the convenience of hooking the trap directly to the chain. But putting a chain behind a Wolf fang or Berk is like threading a needle and using that thread to pull a rope through the needle. Behind a super stake I think the chain diameter is the same or less than the stake, so no problem. But I think the only reason someone goes to chain is because of short chains causing the animal chewing the cable (becomes part of the trap) which could be eliminated by going to longer trap chain with shock springs. Just IMO, of course.....
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Post by centro44 on Apr 6, 2012 22:03:12 GMT -5
Very good point talked about today with using chain........if you have felled a tree in your life you may understand........tree is on ground and you can get chain under it but not where it needs to be.....what do we all do?? Pull it back and forth like a knife pulling until it gets to the front of the log.........might the same happen to the ground with a coyote working that chain all night long so then a hole is open to pull the anchor........eric
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Post by J.P. Wilson on Apr 7, 2012 7:12:22 GMT -5
So if i'm following you right, you are suggesting the constant tight chain and than slack chain wears away at the ground around the anchor causing it to be pulled easily?
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Post by bballou on Apr 7, 2012 7:43:15 GMT -5
JP---did you ever chain up a dog---and drive the chain into the ground---say a foot or so----It wont be long and the dog will have a very good sized cone shaped hole going to the anchor---the chain acts like a cutter to the ground---- its almost the same as --- what centro ----is saying ---useing the chain to cut away the earth. Jest ask any logger. Cable dont have that effect ---- its smoother.----My grand-father taught me that a very long time ago ----he raised and borded hunting dogs---100's of them----we always had to attach a wheel rim or cement weight-- to the chain so the dog wouldent take off. I did chase a lot of dogs before I learned.
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Post by centro44 on Apr 7, 2012 9:18:25 GMT -5
Thanks bill ;D..........I know I'm not trying to be a smart guy with anyone and I know bill isn't........just giving suggestions so a first time trapper doesn't pull up to a set and find what would have been his or her first coyote.........eric
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Post by bballou on Apr 7, 2012 13:44:43 GMT -5
Dr. Chambers stopped this morning----and I was tellling him about the coyote discussion---mainly the digging and chewing----He also found it a very interestiog topic --- he suggested that jest may-be----there was more wolf in the coyotes that did the digging and chewing----- and the reason I had noticed more of that was because ---the coyotes brunner and I were trapping lived in a more wolf type environment--- (more woods) than the broken farm land where Mark traps. Wolves have more of a tendancy to dig and chew than coyote. Sounds like a good theory to me.---all we have to do is wait about another 50 years for someone to prove it---or some of the other theorys that came along in the mean time.
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Post by Brunner on Apr 7, 2012 16:23:22 GMT -5
Glad this one is still going. Some good stuff in it.
Bill...you talk about never having a swivel crushed. When I first started to get into k9's, I started adding swivels to my traps. At that time they were just standard swivels, no crush proofs or anything special. That and I still ran twin loop chain. I use to save the swivels and chain that I had crushed, but have since trashed them. Guess it would be about like saving the dogs that coyotes have chewed up on me. Since then I run crunch proof swivels, nail swivels and machine chain. These problems have since gone out the window.
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oldeman
Fulton Montgomery Fur Harvesters Ass.
Posts: 581
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Post by oldeman on Apr 7, 2012 16:34:27 GMT -5
I use nothing but chai and try to get as much of the 18 in in as possible but sometimes due to bolders or roots where I trap in the adirondacks it is less than I like .I have noticed that the catch circle is more torn up when they have more chain.I wonder if some of the problems the guys are having is due to two day checks? I have done away with these on K9s and it seems to have reduced the number of shreded fox in my traps a lot.It seems as if two days is usually just long enough for the yote to find them.It also has greatly reduced the ammount of damage done to my equipt. by trapped yotes.
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Post by Itrapny on Apr 7, 2012 16:54:06 GMT -5
Just because you have a 48 hour check doesn't mean you should utilize it...just isn't smart in my opinion and with limited frost free nights each Fall, why waste it with a critter clogging up a good set
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Post by centro44 on Apr 7, 2012 17:41:58 GMT -5
Even my water sets get checked everyday for the fact of non-target catch, snapped trap and getting a catch out of a trap to get it working again.........also getting them out of a trap reduces theft, pull outs, and animals being eat in by another.......but back to the main topic ;D
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Post by bballou on Apr 7, 2012 17:58:25 GMT -5
Brunner -----all I can say is it must be like Zagger's and my differance with digging and cable biteing----right now I cant think of a reason there should be a differance ---- (crushed swivels) It jest has never happened to me. ------Oldeman--I for one ----try to never leave K9 traps for 48 hrs --- way to much can happen with coyotes--- (even when I used only Sterlings) --- Wayne has a good point why leave a set clogged-up.----when you can be skinning. ( I do hate to put up coyotes.) but with respect to the animal --- when I catch one ---Ill put it up---unless I can think of a way to con Bernie into putting it up.
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Post by centro44 on Apr 7, 2012 18:09:27 GMT -5
Bill I'm putting you through the army PT for the summer.........your gonna be a new man......Bernie is going to be scared
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Post by centro44 on Apr 7, 2012 21:10:25 GMT -5
i think the problem is are northern coyote are just more manly and tougher then zaggers coyote.....
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traps82
#3 Newhouse
Hope is always alive
Posts: 3,208
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Post by traps82 on Apr 7, 2012 21:38:46 GMT -5
Bill told me that about the chain cutting a wide hole.. I thought about... I stuck with cable.. See Bill? I listen!!
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Post by centro44 on Apr 7, 2012 22:38:21 GMT -5
Bill is a master of trapping.....so he thinks ;D........just a joke my friend but he is full of help full ideas just as everyone else here is.......I gain alot of information here
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Post by bballou on Apr 8, 2012 6:16:06 GMT -5
centro 44 ---- I will be the first to tell any one that I am the master of "nothing"---especially trapping---Jest about every day (when trapping) I learn something I dident know about animals---its a learning process that takes more than a life time to learn -- IMO----and I think its getting harder to learn----about the coyote---because he has learned more about co-existing with man in the last 20 years--- than Ill ever scratch the surface of learning about. Guys like Zagger who take the time to look and learn ----- will always see the differance of what the coyote is doing today-- vs -- yesterday --- and will capitolize on that advantage --- ----" Knowledge" when pursueing them.
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Post by centro44 on Apr 8, 2012 10:37:47 GMT -5
But zagger plays with the baby coyotes
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oldeman
Fulton Montgomery Fur Harvesters Ass.
Posts: 581
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Post by oldeman on Apr 8, 2012 11:22:52 GMT -5
One thing I have learned is that if you try to trap yotes with minimal equiptment you will probably wind up putting up a minimal number of them. They are tough and very adaptable critters so go for broke. PS: the quicker you skin them after they are dispached the easier the job is.
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Post by bballou on Apr 8, 2012 19:33:17 GMT -5
oldeman---when I first learned about skinning a coyote when it was warm---I skun a pile of them out in the field ----but now a lot of years later---I jest dont have the strength on my arms or back. ---Have a story about minimal equipment-----One year my partner wanted to trap Fox in the fall---so to avoid the coyotes we decided we would use Victor 1-1/2's ----WELL as all good plans GO---- on the 4 day we trapped (fox not coyote---traps were at the holes and close to the attractors) ----- about noon --- and 19 coyotes to our credit--we decided to pull the K9 traps. ---all I can say is Murphy must of been on our shoulders. GO FIGURE.
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