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Post by fingerlakesfur on Feb 16, 2006 8:49:08 GMT -5
Since the last question cleared the air, here's another fuzzy topic. Bridge Trapping.
I was told this year by a D.E.C. Officer that you cannot trap bridges unless you have permission from the adjacent land owner.
Eminent Domain, Utility right aways and such, do not allow the public to encroach like I always thought.
I was surprised by his answer.
What are you thoughts.
Dale
P.S. Keep in mind NY state only. Other states have different regs.
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Post by fisherman on Feb 16, 2006 11:24:58 GMT -5
I believe this question was addressed several years ago by DEC with an in-house memo allowing trapping under bridges and in culverts. Technically the law states that you can't trap on a public highway. Some deeds read that the property extends to the center of the highway. Of course there are the road right of ways, but they do not pertain to allow trapping. I'd suggest contacting your regional DEC wildlife manager. I beleive the ECO's answer was incorrect.
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Post by seandicare on Feb 16, 2006 17:39:40 GMT -5
i remember reading (i think on the DEC website) that trapping on the roadway was illegal, but bridges and such was ok. Dom
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Post by Itrapny on Feb 16, 2006 18:54:24 GMT -5
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Post by herm on Feb 16, 2006 19:57:46 GMT -5
I agree with Fisherman that the ECO answer is not correct.But the way things have been going wait a month and you may get a different answer. Their clearly is no one answer to your question.Power lines right of ways are for the power co. only.Eminate domain is an act of the goverment taking title of the land.Some land may be owned to the center of the road some not.Most tax mapes have landowners paying taxes to the center of the road,but a tax map does not nessasarly mean someone owns it. On bridges alone there are several different factors that are in effect.Weather the bridge is over a ditch,stream,navegable stream,navegable comercial stream,federal waterway(a waterway that eventually flows to the sea),weather you are above or below a comercial place on the stream ,high water marks,improved lands,unimproved lands, etc.Al these factors have different cercumstances involved. Also all of the above have nothing to do with DEC regulations but pertain to the different state and federal laws. To make matters more confusing in 1799 the first state highway was declared,it goes by my house.It also happens to be a creek.Could I get a ticket for trapping on it?
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Post by Dave Leibig on Feb 16, 2006 20:20:14 GMT -5
I believe that, if the land is posted you need permission. It is the same as if the land is posted you can't fish off of a bridge. On the issue of is it a Bridge or a Culvert, They are the same thing, just bigger. You can't trap on a public highway. I don't know of any reason why, cars move too fast and have no fur . You can trap the ditch with permission if posted. I hope that helps . Dave
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Post by Itrapny on Feb 16, 2006 20:29:30 GMT -5
If you look at the post I made, it states right in the trapping regulation booklet that if the land is posted you need permission, if it isn't posted, trap away!!
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Post by herm on Feb 16, 2006 20:46:23 GMT -5
I have never seen a posted sign on a highway only along the sides of the highway.My question then that I pose to the legal minds that belong to ITrap NY is .If I do not trap on the land which is behind the posted sign but stay on the unposted land infront of the posted sign on lands between the posted sign and the road,which according to the posting laws of NY would be unposted lands am I legal if I place a trap on that land.
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Post by Itrapny on Feb 16, 2006 21:06:58 GMT -5
You guys are cutting hairs here. If the land is posted than why take the chance of getting your traps stolen, or being charged with tresspassing, is it that hard to ask permisssion or just trap on the other side of the road?? Many landowners post their property because someone abused or took advantage of a situation just like this at a time in the past. All it takes is a little kindness and consideration at times to start a new relationship that may get you more than a culvert. Of course you can't place a posted sign on a right a way, that's why the trapping booklet states if the land isn't posted you can set the trap. You have to use a little common sence and good judgement at times and really ask yourself "is it worth it?"
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Post by wmthrower on Feb 17, 2006 7:29:31 GMT -5
Wayne, reread the link that you posted. At the end it states "or the landowner does not allow trapping". How will you know unless you ask? Also, you could run into the question of trespassing. Just because land isn't posted doesn't mean that anyone can go there. That is the common belief but it is still trespassing unless you fall into the unimproved, unfenced....etc but that can be a tough claim to make.
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Post by Itrapny on Feb 17, 2006 7:40:36 GMT -5
That was my point exactly, why take the chance of getting yourself in trouble, just ask. I would rather set my traps knowing I have permission then try to sneak around.
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Post by jsevering on Feb 17, 2006 8:00:17 GMT -5
if the road is a user road (no fee taking) or the land is on both sides of the user road the underlying fee title is with the property owner.....you need permission.....jim
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Post by herm on Feb 17, 2006 10:04:24 GMT -5
In my first post on this thread I stated many different cases where a bridge over a waterway trapping could be perfectly legal. In my second post I was spliting hairs wanting to have everone exercice our minds to our legal rights just like the anties do.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2006 11:24:59 GMT -5
A little story, although a bit off topic. I own several hundered feet of road frontage in two counties with ditches and culverts on each side. I have had to get a permit to do anything, like to add a culvert for building an access road to a field. Once we added an access without a permit.This was some years ago and we didn't realize you had to have a permit, just that a certain size culvert and length was needed. We were forced to remove a legal sized culvert and the state offical made me get the permit. Then they supplied a same sized and type culvert , and charged me for it and then I had to supply the gravel and backhoe to build this access. All very silly, and a waste of everyone's time, as I was happy to pay for the permit and what we installed was what the state specified anyways. They just wanted the money like they always do, and wasted taxpayer money by re-installing a culvert that was legal size already. I was then informed by that same nasty little state offical, that the state has control of the land from 33 feet from the centerline of the road to the land on either side of the road, no matter what our deed said. A few months latter after this all happened, the state cleaned the ditches and scraped the very edge of the leach field of our expensive, legal county/state approved septic system. They really over did the ditch cleaning compared with what had been usually done in the past,( much wider ditch). Of course when we complained ,they said they weren't responsible for such damage. Bottom line is, don't trap without asking permission period, posted or not, as any use is a sore spot with many people who own such property. People who own property are being pinched harder and harder with taxes and insurance. Having said that, this little episode kinda makes me wonder if you really own the land the ditch, culvert, or whatever. I know I'd find out quick if I neglected pay my taxes just once! Also when it comes to this issue on trapping large culverts, and fishing rights access on creeks ,we, as trappers are getting short changed on access. We help pay for those parking spots and bank fishing access the DEC maintains and cultivates. Trapping has more in common with fishing than hunting, and could be confined to the immediate bank, water, and roadside culvert areas. Access is what keeps people in the field. Unfortunately , it probably won't change as many landowners distrust people they don't know, as well as some state officals.
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Post by fingerlakesfur on Feb 17, 2006 13:15:54 GMT -5
Thanks for all the response.
The general consensus is GET PERMISSION.
On other sites, you hear the Minnesota/Iowa bridge trappers say "I have the right to trap this bridge, and I tell the landowners to kiss my rump", not true in NYS.
This all came about when a friend of mine who lives in Lysander gave me permission to put some mink traps on his property. When I arrived at the bridge I noticed two 1 1/2 coils already set there. Together we read the tags, and he contacted D.E.C.: The Officer told me everyone trapping bridges needs permission. Next day the fellas traps were gone and we haven't heard from him since. My friend didn't want him ticketed, just gone.
The old days nobody cared, but today, people see you stopping at a bridge they want to know what you are doing. If they get curious, traps get stolen or the law gets called. I have certain bridges I trap and thats it. Blame it on social attitudes, urban encroachment or fear of being sued but that's the way it is and it will only get worse.
Dale
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Post by walkonwater on Mar 1, 2006 19:54:54 GMT -5
This is one of those issues I just can't seem to give an inch on. If it is a structure that my tax dollars built and maintains and is not designated 'park' or 'safety zone' then I have a right to trap it .
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Post by wmthrower on Mar 2, 2006 7:26:15 GMT -5
Maybe you do. But are you saying that you don't have to ask permission from the adjoining land owner?
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Post by walkonwater on Mar 2, 2006 7:33:10 GMT -5
i am not saying that. I am saying that if it is a public bridge, I am the land owner. Trapping the adjoining land is a different topic.
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