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Post by jsevering on Jan 10, 2006 7:41:16 GMT -5
attempting to control and\ or using to your advantage digging , roling, rubs. along with creating locations within a general location.
setting the set proper vrs the approach\ reaction
any thoughts? ....jim
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2006 11:27:34 GMT -5
Here's a couple . I have used a loud LDC on a paper towel in a pop bottle wired in a bush 4 to 5 feet up, or buried a loud smelling ripe bait and setting up near the bait on the approaches. They roll and rub on places where loud baits are or were, and like to then pee on significant things near by. Mound sets work near the pop bottle with the LDC . I use a similar variation of this one in brushy pastures where I want to avoid livestock stomping my traps and sets. I make a bait station in the pasture. Then I watch outside the fences for crawl throughs and trails, and set-up near those outside the pasture. Another is the buried bait set in winter time. Set trap right on buried bait and use their digging response to guide them into the trap.When using a trench set or step-down, response to a bait or lure is important but not the whole equation. Canines will often approach a un-lured fresh dug set and if there is a trap there they will be caught as they step down in the pattern, even if they are just a looker. I use this idea and the low narrow pattern to my advantage and catch them as they scratch for the smell at end of the pattern. If you watch a dog who is after mice they dig like that, and make a trench as they dig. So I go where the mice and canines are, and make trench sets.
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Post by jsevering on Jan 10, 2006 22:40:39 GMT -5
I use a simular set up for creating location within a general location as you, good heavy call lure up high with the addition of a beaver peel or coon carcass hung up there with it, to attract the birds and provide a visual focus for attention, try to get smell, sight and whatever sound the birds wiil produce for me working, like you I find that it opens oppertunities for subtil sets within a general location, that works against their natural nature within range of the loud call, it also in my chain of thought opens up other set oppertunities that work to confuse/distract their already somewhat hightened frustrated senses along with the example of set opertunities you gave avoiding livestock.
know theirs others out there with some thoughts , nothing ventured, nothing gained, what the hell are we here for any how?.....jim
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Post by mole on Jan 11, 2006 5:12:16 GMT -5
Very aggresive responces by an animal can be hard to deal with sometimes. You are not going to get something by the shoulder if they are rolling. This is where setting back and possibly using two traps in order to intercept them before they get to the rolling stage. I have put a beaver in a tree also to use as a call station. The cyotes especially get very aggrivated with this. This is the place for a simple urine post set,something for them to vent their frustrations on . Rubbing;shoulder or chin, again this can be to your advantage by usind two traps and setting back. You have their interest and their nose is up in the air. The difficultity is trap placement. This was touched a little in the thread I started about to much lure. bottom line; the lure that you are using is doing its job now the problem lies in you,handling the various situations as they arise Theres my thought, take care Ed
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Post by bballou on Jan 11, 2006 23:16:10 GMT -5
Jim I would sure like to join ya on this subject but I am cought up in the beaver now. 16hr. days. Ill join in as soon as the run stops. P.S. Grab a knife and come on up there is plenty of skinning to be done, we are behind by 6 as of 9:00 tonite.
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Post by jsevering on Jan 12, 2006 7:23:25 GMT -5
bill, I'll send ed right up ;D, ..........
thanks for your reply mole...........
know theres other opinions and ways, the guy I trap with, ed, is a little heavey on the lure right from the get go and at certain dirt sets and locations so am I.
had a conversation with pete leggett a few years back that got me thinking, more or less relayed a lure combo I was using that worked good for me, on canines and cats, a loud developed call up high and a mild tri plex lure at the set.
to make a long story short, pete asked me, if my loud call lure was good enough to bring them in to the set why not just use it there. the point being, more or less if its good enough to call them in its good enough to use at the set itself, we were more or less talking dirt holes and flats, made sence to me, except for my worries of shoulder rubbing and rolling, figured Id catch more hair than animals.....jim
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Post by mikespring on Jan 12, 2006 11:16:11 GMT -5
I have never had much of a reason to use a call lure, figure if I can place my set within a few yards of were they will be thats good enough for me then a subtle lure to end it.
There are times I use a rancid bait down the dirt hole and am expecting them to dig it out and roll on it, but you have make sure you nail them on the approach.
I have always thought that less is more when trapping canines, there are exceptions but as a rule I will opt for less.
Mike Spring
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Post by Itrapny on Jan 12, 2006 20:54:50 GMT -5
Mike if you ever get a chance to set for fisher, you'll appreciate a good call lure!
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Post by mikespring on Jan 12, 2006 21:20:56 GMT -5
I took for granted we were talking fox and coyotes, my mistake.
Mike Spring
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Post by Itrapny on Jan 12, 2006 21:39:09 GMT -5
We were, just thought I'd add my 2 cents ;D
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Post by jsevering on Jan 13, 2006 7:12:50 GMT -5
thats kinda the good part of this thread you both have valid points along with mole and bobber.
some good points on how to use\attempt to control reaction agaisnt or with the sence of smell also.
thought we had more than four or five canine trappers on the board, must of been wrong.....jim ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2006 11:33:03 GMT -5
Thought of another thing , but this may only be of value only where you can manipulate the cover or find similar features. We brush hog trails on some property I co-own for rabbit and deer hunting. We're using a five foot cutter and the trails are about three passes wide. I will, near certain places ,back the hog into the side of the trail creating a thin pennisula of tall weeds and grass. latter I'll make a mouse hole set with a small blended in pattern at the point of this penninsula. Maybe mild bait and or mild lure at this set. Also I will make a flat set with only urine as an attractor right up againist the tall weeds in the corner of the back-up. Setting close to or right up againist tall cover can help with the crawlers. Trappers get too hung up on the old idea that you need a backstop the fox or coyote could step over. I also make sure these back-ups favor the wind. Like the wind to move the scent from these to known travelways. I too, wish there was more trapping discussion when topics like this are brought up. The forums are great but lack good participation at times, except when the political crap comes up. Makes me feel like not bothering to keep participating also. Heck, it takes me 45 minutes to upload one picture with the dail-up service I can get here, if I don't get booted off while doing it. Then you only get one or two comments on it and always from the same ones. Some guys only have the time to trap only a couple of farms each season, but take 8 out of the 12 foxes or coyotes on them with a half dozen sets in a week. Those kind of trappers are what makes up the majority of us. We need their input also, lot of experience lurking out there.
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Post by mole on Jan 14, 2006 10:11:35 GMT -5
I dont think this is off topic. Lets look at where you trap in comparisom to where I trap for a minute. I have no farm land. I have large tracts of woods.When I say large tracts I meen several thousand acres. Most clear land is old logging landings. A call lure to me is sometimes very benificial. I do have general features that narrow things down a little,rivers,lakes,etc. old logging roads provide set locations but again a loud lure helps. Just a couple thoughts. Ed
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Post by Itrapny on Jan 14, 2006 10:27:25 GMT -5
I have some area's that I trap that are just like your's Ed, but I also have quite a bit of farm land. A couple of the farms I trap are very large, in fact one is over 1,000 acres of almost all hay fields and a call lure helps me out a lot I think. If for nothing else it gives my a little more confidence when I am making the set. That brings up another valid point I think. I had read years ago that the human body is a cesspool of odors we can all agree on that, right. Now each body has it's own smells, go smell your spouse or significant other...they smell unique don't they? You could pick them out of a lineup blindfolded, at least I could. Anyway, whenever you make a set you are leaving odors behind no matter how careful you are, it happens. The body has certain odors for different situation through the release of endorphins, bear with me here. As you make your sets and you have confidence in the that set you release a different odor than if you have little or no confidence in the set. Some may not believe this but I have seen it happen before,granted it's not a true scientific study but take 2 individuals, one having a great amount of trapping experience myself and someone with less experience , my son. We each made sets in the same field, same travel patterns, wind direction, lure, etc. my sets caught fox & coyotes, his nothing. The sets were identical, the traps were handled identical, the locations were identical and the lures identical. Why did I catch critters and he didn't????I don't know for sure, but he told me himself when he made his set that he didn't think he would catch anything while I knew I would. Maybe it's cosmic or maybe it is odor's....you decide.
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Post by mole on Jan 14, 2006 10:32:21 GMT -5
dededede; enter Rod Serling- just kidding. ;D
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Post by mikespring on Jan 14, 2006 13:24:11 GMT -5
Ed, in your situation sounds like a good call lure would be the ticket.
Wayne, I to have had the same experience as far as being with another trapper, them being right on location, making a good set and never connecting...
Mike Spring
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Post by jsevering on Jan 14, 2006 16:04:49 GMT -5
sounds like a bunch of short cutting son of a guns think the animals can sence stress through smell? wonder how long a stressed trappers scent can last at a set compared to a trapped coyote, fox,ect. find it peculiar that a stressesd area say a red fox catch circle, produces and produces catch after catch compared to a coyote catch patern that may seem to hot, to count on after a couple of catches, or so and require a fresh back up. difference in critter response or confidence level of the trapper replacing or putting in new steel why does it seem location changes fifteen to twenty feet at times using the same lures and sets, wish I had the answer on that one.......jim
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2006 11:31:03 GMT -5
I also agree that your confidence can affect how a set produces. Also your scent associated with the disappearence and death of a animal you've caught, affects the social structure of the area you're trapping in. Animals forget , but vary in their ability and reaction to effects of loss, and curosity to events surrounding changes in their immediate area. In the short run , like the short time you're maybe trapping there, this has an effect on their responce or lack of, to your sets. I think fox are just too curious for their own good , coyotes are less so, and quicker to associate your scent with danger. Confidence, and the ability to read an animal or location, connect with it if you will, is different in everyone. Not sure if it can be cultivated with some people. They have removed themselves so completely from the natural order of things.
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Post by jsevering on Jan 16, 2006 17:59:33 GMT -5
good post bobber, sure squeezed alot in that one....jim
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Post by wmthrower on Jan 17, 2006 7:44:56 GMT -5
Well I'm one of the guys who only has a few places to trap for canines and only got a few this year. I can't really speak to lure usage yet. I just don't have enough background info to say one way or the other. I do find this thread very interesting. On the confidence thing, I have a similar observation. Go back to the first sets you made for a canine. You were probably worried about scent contamination and wore rubber boots, rubber gloves for traps and something else for bait/lure etc, maybe even used a kneeling pad. As you progress, and you can see this with guys who have trapped for years, they don't always use this stuff. Sometimes they are barehanded, wear leather boots, etc. They could set the trap in the same place, same way, same lures as when they were younger. Now they connect almost immediately. Is it related to the confidence odors? I don't know.
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