austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
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Post by austinp on Apr 25, 2013 18:09:12 GMT -5
I never received one of these in the mail. If I had, I would have gladly sent it back
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Post by minkman1 on Apr 29, 2013 14:16:59 GMT -5
I sent mine in but made a few comments on it. I didnt like the idea of a school like cornell trying to get this information. I filled it in and sent it in anyhow. Always good to make your voice heard.
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Post by walleyed on Apr 29, 2013 14:29:01 GMT -5
I sent mine in but made a few comments on it. I didnt like the idea of a school like cornell trying to get this information. I filled it in and sent it in anyhow. Always good to make your voice heard. I believe that Cornell University is contracted by the DEC, Bureau of Wildlife to conduct a scientifically based study Poll Each Year on Trapping that is Statistically Accurate and Unhindered by ("MOST") biases found in many surveys or polls. I found out at the Spring Trapper's conference that Cornell University is also doing the Genetics on the Fisher study to determine if data collected from hair samples of fisher at the survey sites is from single unique individuals or multiple animals to better determine the accurate population estimates of each study area. Cornell, In spite of it's somewhat liberal leanings is a Research institute whose reputation is beyond reproach. walleyed
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Post by whartonrattrapper on Apr 30, 2013 6:59:06 GMT -5
I sent mine in but made a few comments on it. I didnt like the idea of a school like cornell trying to get this information. I filled it in and sent it in anyhow. Always good to make your voice heard. I believe that Cornell University is contracted by the DEC, Bureau of Wildlife to conduct a scientifically based study Poll Each Year on Trapping that is Statistically Accurate and Unhindered by ("MOST") biases found in many surveys or polls. I found out at the Spring Trapper's conference that Cornell University is also doing the Genetics on the Fisher study to determine if data collected from hair samples of fisher at the survey sites is from single unique individuals or multiple animals to better determine the accurate population estimates of each study area. Cornell, In spite of it's somewhat liberal leanings is a Research institute whose reputation is beyond reproach. walleyed walleyed, It was my understanding the hair sample can determine within a 25 mile radius of where the fisher was caught. is this True?
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Post by walleyed on Apr 30, 2013 8:29:54 GMT -5
I believe that Cornell University is contracted by the DEC, Bureau of Wildlife to conduct a scientifically based study Poll Each Year on Trapping that is Statistically Accurate and Unhindered by ("MOST") biases found in many surveys or polls. I found out at the Spring Trapper's conference that Cornell University is also doing the Genetics on the Fisher study to determine if data collected from hair samples of fisher at the survey sites is from single unique individuals or multiple animals to better determine the accurate population estimates of each study area. Cornell, In spite of it's somewhat liberal leanings is a Research institute whose reputation is beyond reproach. walleyed walleyed, It was my understanding the hair sample can determine within a 25 mile radius of where the fisher was caught. is this True? I don't have that information at hand and I did not pay close enough attention to the Overall presentation to answer that question. I don't think it went that far in depth at the Spring Conference Presentation but I'm sure the DEC Region #8 or #9 Furbearer Biologists could better answer that question. w
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Post by fisherman on Apr 30, 2013 9:33:54 GMT -5
I greatly value Frenchie's opinion.He has in made some very valid points. As for the Cornell survey I have to assume that it was put together by some grad student who took some of the questions from the NYSTA survey. I have not received or seen the Cornell survey. The NYSTA survey was put together by myself and edited by the other JTI members.It was merely a survey, not a proposal.It was included within the NYSTA newsletter and all NYSTA members should have received one. If Cornell duplicated the muskrat, mink season question all I can say is that we had nothing to do with that. I'm in Pennsylvania chasing spring gobblers and do not have my NYSTA paperwork with me so I can't quote exact figures, but I do remember that the majority of northern zone trappers favored the November 1 date for opening the mink-rat season. The survey did ask if that trapper trapped in the northern zone, southern zone, or both. I am of the belief that trapping seasons should be regulated by WMU, not northern zone, southern zone. The question should have been presented that way. I strongly favor a later a November 1 opening date for the SOUTHERN ADIRONDACKS, with that lost week tacked onto the tail end of the season. I certainly don't want to shove changes down the throat of trappers in other areas. I don't know why the southern zone trappers like that November 25 date when some years everything is already iced up, but that is their business, not mine, and is not for me to try to change. I also favor a later fisher season; November 15 thru Dec.31., however there has been an argument that snow comes early on tug hill and a later season might hurt those trappers. All of these things need to be considered. By the way, most of the responders did NOT agree with my opinions on fisher. As for me, I am against any loss of trapping days. I am against season quotas, and if it can't be done by WMU I can live with no season change at all. After all I already don't start trapping anything when the season opens. That hurts me, but is my choice; I don't like trapping blue critters.
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Post by walleyed on Apr 30, 2013 10:49:50 GMT -5
I greatly value Frenchie's opinion.He has in made some very valid points. As for the Cornell survey I have to assume that it was put together by some grad student who took some of the questions from the NYSTA survey. I have not received or seen the Cornell survey. The NYSTA survey was put together by myself and edited by the other JTI members.It was merely a survey, not a proposal.It was included within the NYSTA newsletter and all NYSTA members should have received one. If Cornell duplicated the muskrat, mink season question all I can say is that we had nothing to do with that. I'm in Pennsylvania chasing spring gobblers and do not have my NYSTA paperwork with me so I can't quote exact figures, but I do remember that the majority of northern zone trappers favored the November 1 date for opening the mink-rat season. The survey did ask if that trapper trapped in the northern zone, southern zone, or both. I am of the belief that trapping seasons should be regulated by WMU, not northern zone, southern zone. The question should have been presented that way. I strongly favor a later a November 1 opening date for the SOUTHERN ADIRONDACKS, with that lost week tacked onto the tail end of the season. I certainly don't want to shove changes down the throat of trappers in other areas. I don't know why the southern zone trappers like that November 25 date when some years everything is already iced up, but that is their business, not mine, and is not for me to try to change. I also favor a later fisher season; November 15 thru Dec.31., however there has been an argument that snow comes early on tug hill and a later season might hurt those trappers. All of these things need to be considered. By the way, most of the responders did NOT agree with my opinions on fisher. As for me, I am against any loss of trapping days. I am against season quotas, and if it can't be done by WMU I can live with no season change at all. After all I already don't start trapping anything when the season opens. That hurts me, but is my choice; I don't like trapping blue critters. GREAT POST FISHERMAN !!! ;D ;D ALL OF THE ABOVE sounds MUCH MORE palatable and acceptable than starting the Mink and Muskrat Season On November 1st which is a week later in THE WHOLE NORTHERN ZONE and thereby losing a week of trapping opportunity. I AGREE that the Entire Northern Zone should be managed by Individual WMU instead of as an entire region. That was the whole purpose of establishing the individual WMU's in the first place. So DEC Bureau of Wildlife could Micro-Manage Individual Wildlife Species in each area with unique sets of conditions on a case by case basis. I also agree that Fisher Season needs some tweaking on certain individual WMUs on a case by case basis. Most trappers are Really not that far off from Consensus on managing Furbearers, and just need to continue to share information and Communicate Both in person, and by all forms of media on a Regular Basis. walleyed
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Apr 30, 2013 11:11:32 GMT -5
I favor the southern zone late Nov opener for several reasons. Rats are just starting to look good on leather then. There is usually a decent stretch of open water sometime before Jan 1st... even if there is ice at the opener, there was only one season in recent memory (2010-11) that never thawed once from late November.
Also, the spread between land seasons and water seasons gives us a chance to focus on each, rather than being split in two. If fox-coyotes-coon-rats-mink-beaver all opened within a week's time, that would make for tough choices on what to target. I greatly prefer a month of land trapping only followed by water season added later.
There is no compelling reason to open water season down here any earlier than the Saturday following Thanksgiving Thursday... not a random 25th date. What we could really use are a couple more weeks on the back end of season... not the front end.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2013 11:14:18 GMT -5
I favor the southern zone late Nov opener for several reasons. Rats are just starting to look good on leather then. There is usually a decent stretch of open water sometime before Jan 1st... even if there is ice at the opener, there was only one season in recent memory (2010-11) that never thawed once from late November. Also, the spread between land seasons and water seasons gives us a chance to focus on each, rather than being split in two. If fox-coyotes-coon-rats-mink-beaver all opened within a week's time, that would make for tough choices on what to target. I greatly prefer a month of land trapping only followed by water season added later. There is no compelling reason to open water season down here any earlier than the Saturday following Thanksgiving Thursday... not a random 25th date. What we could really use are a couple more weeks on the back end of season... not the front end. Good thing no one sent you a survey I'd love the oppurtunity to pursue rats and mink while I'm on the line for fox in Nov.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2013 11:14:55 GMT -5
I agree
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Apr 30, 2013 11:40:22 GMT -5
Good thing no one sent you a survey I'd love the oppurtunity to pursue rats and mink while I'm on the line for fox in Nov. Well, everyone's different. I prefer to spend the whole effort either on land or in water, not both. That doesn't make either of us right or wrong, now does it?
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wcs
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Post by wcs on Apr 30, 2013 16:45:23 GMT -5
I have to say I disagree with regulations being different for each Wmu. There are so many regulations as it is I feel that making it anymore confusing would make guys shy away from trapping.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2013 20:08:52 GMT -5
Good thing no one sent you a survey I'd love the oppurtunity to pursue rats and mink while I'm on the line for fox in Nov. Well, everyone's different. I prefer to spend the whole effort either on land or in water, not both. That doesn't make either of us right or wrong, now does it? Different strokes for different folks, its what makes this America ;D
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Apr 30, 2013 20:30:37 GMT -5
To me our season dates here are fine, only thing I'd really change is an extra 3 - 4 weeks of rat season on the back end. But whatever the state does in the future, it does.
What I would really like to see is a 7 - 9 day maximum firearms season for deer. Leave archery as-is, shorten firearms to two weekends and the days between, leave blackpowder same and be done with it.
Regular firearms deer season is waay too long to be effective, and it screws up the prime core of land trapping seasons to boot. If any one thing could be changed to benefit trappers, that would be it.
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Post by mrlongbeard1 on Apr 30, 2013 23:50:56 GMT -5
To me our season dates here are fine, only thing I'd really change is an extra 3 - 4 weeks of rat season on the back end. But whatever the state does in the future, it does. What I would really like to see is a 7 - 9 day maximum firearms season for deer. Leave archery as-is, shorten firearms to two weekends and the days between, leave blackpowder same and be done with it. Regular firearms deer season is waay too long to be effective, and it screws up the prime core of land trapping seasons to boot. If any one thing could be changed to benefit trappers, that would be it. I'd agree with shorting gun season for deer. I don't believe that it would make for less opportunity but would make people hunt harder in the time allowed.
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Post by trappermac on May 1, 2013 3:43:17 GMT -5
To suggest shortening the deer season, the number one revenue source for the state when it comes to sportsman is a waste of time. Shorten their season to benefit 13,000 trappers? Ain't gonna happen.
I agree with a March 31st or at least a March 15th closure for rats, but I'd also like an earlier opener....say around Nov. 15th or so to allow a week or so before the deer opener. Some of the private land I water trap the landowners don't want me in there during the firearms season as it may mess up their hunt, by the time you can get in there its ice time. Would also provide better opportunity for the young trappers to experience open water trapping. Years ago it used to open on or about the 10th....of course back when I was a kid we used to have a spring season here as well.
And I could certainly trap canines and hit the water at the same time here.
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Post by fisherman on May 1, 2013 8:13:50 GMT -5
Wait a minute! You guys don't want to lose any days from the mink-muskrat season, but you are advocating shortening the deer season? I'm a trapper, but also an avid hunter and I say that suggestion is Bull****!
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Post by minkman1 on May 10, 2013 19:41:21 GMT -5
As fisherman stated the southern adirondacks needs a november first opener for rats and mink. Also the fisher season should be later in general everywhere. This is my opinion, but I find it more conveinent to set for prime fur all at once. MEaning rats, mink, otter, beaver, and coon on the same line. I dont like haveing to drive back and forth to beat competition and then haveing to go back again for beaver. Waste of time and gas money. I would rather catch fisher efficiently instead of burning gas and traps when the wheather is warm and there is gut piles everywhere. They shouldnt change deer season, but instead adjust the tapping season in our favor. Also thank you for the correction walleye on cornell, I thought there might have been more bias involved, but I shouldnt have just assumed.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on May 11, 2013 5:44:08 GMT -5
Wait a minute! You guys don't want to lose any days from the mink-muskrat season, but you are advocating shortening the deer season? I'm a trapper, but also an avid hunter and I say that suggestion is Bull****! Look at the firearms season structures in PA, OH, IA... just about everywhere other than NY. They have roughly 10 - 14 day seasons where all of the hunting is concentrated within. Now look at the southern zone NY. Season runs several weeks from Sat before tgiving to end of late blackpowder. By the second week, deer have moved away from pressure and into buffer zones behind posted signs. The actual deer take past first ten days is miniscule. In your personal case, are you down here hunting our entire season, or just the first part like everyone else? NY southern zone firearms would be best suited to run 9 or 10 days max, then same blackpowder, then shut it down. Same number of deer would be harvested if not even more, quite frankly. The greater concentrated pressure inside a shortened season would mean more deer movement by hunters before they catch on and change patterns to avoidance. NY is the only state around here with a months' long firearms season. Needs to be adjusted asap, imo
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on May 11, 2013 5:56:08 GMT -5
agree to what? your vote was to close muskrat season statewide for the next five years. as for mixed species trapping, I've done it and still do it. But for the guys who want to take big numbers of anything, you need to focus on that particular species all day long. everyone here oohs and aahs, high-fives and congrats when someone posts truckload pics of coyotes or red fox from the day's catch. "Awesome!" "Great Catch!" "You Da Man!" etc Hey jack... that don't happen running some canine traps on land and some muskrat traps in water. Splitting efforts is fun and that's fine, I do it myself. But for anyone here who ever wished they could experience a truckload of coyotes or fox or muskrats from the day's haul, you likewise want to focus your all-day effort on whatever single target species and that's it.
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Post by walleyed on May 11, 2013 7:47:46 GMT -5
Austin,
Why are you NOT out Turkey hunting right now? Stop obsessing over something that is NEVER going to happen, and smell the roses.
Shouldn't you be rolling over big gobblers a few minutes from now instead of debating the Marshrat.
Remember, Don't feed the Troll !!! ;D ;D ;D
w
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2013 8:21:39 GMT -5
Wait a minute! You guys don't want to lose any days from the mink-muskrat season, but you are advocating shortening the deer season? I'm a trapper, but also an avid hunter and I say that suggestion is Bull****! Look at the firearms season structures in PA, OH, IA... just about everywhere other than NY. They have roughly 10 - 14 day seasons where all of the hunting is concentrated within. Now look at the southern zone NY. Season runs several weeks from Sat before tgiving to end of late blackpowder. By the second week, deer have moved away from pressure and into buffer zones behind posted signs. The actual deer take past first ten days is miniscule. In your personal case, are you down here hunting our entire season, or just the first part like everyone else? NY southern zone firearms would be best suited to run 9 or 10 days max, then same blackpowder, then shut it down. Same number of deer would be harvested if not even more, quite frankly. The greater concentrated pressure inside a shortened season would mean more deer movement by hunters before they catch on and change patterns to avoidance. NY is the only state around here with a months' long firearms season. Needs to be adjusted asap, imo [/quot That's why they call it hunting, not our fault you cant take a deer after the first week or so, or you have no posted property to hunt on. Some people cant go out the first week. THEY HAVE TO WORK..... Everyyear a friend of mine takes a nice buck with the muzzleloader, after reg deer season. He cant hunt durning reg season. HE HAS TO WORK........ So just because Austin wants to chase rats without deer hunters in the woods, everybody else has to suffer..... And don't tell me the same number of deer would be harvested.... how can that be...... If my friend shoots a deer after reg season everyyear. the moral of the story is you want to trap with out the headache of hunters......... And that's bull$$$$.
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Post by fisherman on May 11, 2013 14:19:31 GMT -5
Hey Austin, You and I are friends,I stand by what I said, on this we disagree.Here in the northern zone trapping opens usually on the same day as big game. I've had fox shot in my traps too. In the southern zone you have trapping time ahead of the deer season. I'm certainly not calling for a shorter deer season; I just adjust for what I have to deal with.To answer your question, I do hunt deer in the Adirondacks, Southern Tier, and Pennsylvania. My deer hunting does cut into my trapping, by my choice, you really can't do both at the same time. I'm lucky, I usually am done hunting by early December and then I have until April to trap rats, otter, and beaver.My opinion has not changed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2013 23:00:55 GMT -5
Hey Austin, You and I are friends,I stand by what I said, on this we disagree.Here in the northern zone trapping opens usually on the same day as big game. I've had fox shot in my traps too. In the southern zone you have trapping time ahead of the deer season. I'm certainly not calling for a shorter deer season; I just adjust for what I have to deal with.To answer your question, I do hunt deer in the Adirondacks, Southern Tier, and Pennsylvania. My deer hunting does cut into my trapping, by my choice, you really can't do both at the same time. I'm lucky, I usually am done hunting by early December and then I have until April to trap rats, otter, and beaver.My opinion has not changed. Well said...... I enjoy my trapping and my hunting the same... We are very blessed that we have a long firearms season, most people don't. The long season gets kids, mothers, girlfriends, and ect. outside to enjoy ny outdoors, and puts food on the table. Leave it be.... Ny has taken alot from us lately, lets not take our outdoor freedom.........
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redneck315ers
i got the trapping bug and i see u dont have to lay steel to get it
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Post by redneck315ers on May 11, 2013 23:34:56 GMT -5
x10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 stop the madness ny
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