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Post by milkie62 on Mar 23, 2013 0:43:32 GMT -5
I had a question on otter triggers and conibears.Page 55 of the syllabus.It states that conibears less than 9" do not need otter triggers.I show two ECO's my Duke 330's that have a 8 3/4" top to bottom inside width like it shows on page 55.They still say since it is 10" wide that it needs an otter trigger.I said once I met the 9" criteria in the first paragraph that I am exempt from the rest of the page.After going back and forth,I had them scratching their heads.
So my question is if I met the first criteria of less than 9" inside spread on a conibear am I exempt from setting the trap up with otter triggers ?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2013 5:35:17 GMT -5
I say yes.
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Post by papabear on Mar 23, 2013 8:56:15 GMT -5
Dear Mr. Milkie, I would say no. If an ECO writes you a ticket most judges are are going to rule in favor of the ECO's interpretation of the law. I would believe that modified triggers are cheaper than lawyer's and fines. Regards
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Post by broadhorizons on Mar 23, 2013 10:51:36 GMT -5
Review how traps are measured. You are right. They aren't measured side to side. Only jaw to jaw which is the "gripping surface".
Look up the actual regulation, not the short version in the reg book. Maybe Wayne or someone could post it. I can't from my phone.
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Post by milkie62 on Mar 23, 2013 13:26:59 GMT -5
Review how traps are measured. You are right. They aren't measured side to side. Only jaw to jaw which is the "gripping surface". Look up the actual regulation, not the short version in the reg book. Maybe Wayne or someone could post it. I can't from my phone. That was another point I made to them.Seeing is we only have a 5 3/4" jaw spread on land,most traps would be illegal if we if we measured jaws in both directions.Well anyway they made notes in a syllabus and were going to call me with an answer.
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Post by erict on Mar 23, 2013 14:45:49 GMT -5
"The dimension of the body gripping trap shall be ascertained when the trap is set in the extreme cocked position and shall be the maximum distance between pairs of contacting body gripping surfaces except for rectangular devices which shall be the maximum perpendicular distance between pairs of contacting body gripping surfaces."
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Post by clt on Mar 23, 2013 17:36:00 GMT -5
Review how traps are measured. You are right. They aren't measured side to side. Only jaw to jaw which is the "gripping surface". Look up the actual regulation, not the short version in the reg book. Maybe Wayne or someone could post it. I can't from my phone. That was another point I made to them.Seeing is we only have a 5 3/4" jaw spread on land,most traps would be illegal if we if we measured jaws in both directions.Well anyway they made notes in a syllabus and were going to call me with an answer. Land traps are measured inside the jaws,how would that make most traps illegal?Bridger #2 is legal stock,mb 650's with inside lams are legal.We have a good choice of land traps for predators.Be nice to have 6-6.5" traps but we work with what we got...
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Mar 23, 2013 17:52:23 GMT -5
CLT, he meant if you measured lever to lever... jaw tips to jaw tips instead of jaw face to jaw face
as for the 10" rule it's plain as written ink in the syllabus. Measurement is from outside jaw to jaw gripping surface of said bodygrip traps. Simple and clear-cut as that until regs are rewritten otherwise
fwiw: most ECOs I talk to are not very knowledgable on the details of trapping regs. Never and I do mean NEVER take their word or opinions or assumptions about what is legal or not as equal to the law. They are great guys and gals, I never have a problem with any of them... but most that I talk to have a very passing knowledge of trapping regs at best.
That's not an insult or disparage, it merely reflects limited contact with trappers and trapping versus environmental, hunting and fishing issues which are dealt with all the time.
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Post by milkie62 on Mar 23, 2013 18:31:26 GMT -5
They tried to point out the word "frames"which in their interpretation is both ways.Unfortunately they are the ones with the ticket book.I only have 3 330's and did not want to have to modify them if I did not have to and miss $10 plus rats. LOL
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Mar 23, 2013 18:43:05 GMT -5
They tried to point out the word "frames"which in their interpretation is both ways.Unfortunately they are the ones with the ticket book.I only have 3 330's and did not want to have to modify them if I did not have to and miss $10 plus rats. LOL They can write the tickets, you can take a trap and the regs to court and discuss that on its face with the D.A. where if you politely explain how the error on their part was made, you would get tickets dropped. Or you could skip that hassle and comply with trigger rules for southern zone. Pretty much only two choices there
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Post by milkie62 on Mar 23, 2013 22:01:30 GMT -5
They tried to point out the word "frames"which in their interpretation is both ways.Unfortunately they are the ones with the ticket book.I only have 3 330's and did not want to have to modify them if I did not have to and miss $10 plus rats. LOL They can write the tickets, you can take a trap and the regs to court and discuss that on its face with the D.A. where if you politely explain how the error on their part was made, you would get tickets dropped. Or you could skip that hassle and comply with trigger rules for southern zone. Pretty much only two choices there Only problem with going to court is if the ECO does not know he was at fault, how would someone explain it to a suit clad DA. ;D ;D
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Post by herm on Mar 24, 2013 19:23:40 GMT -5
Not much of a chance of getting any charges droped in a local court without a lawyer.Even less of a chance now that the local courts get a kick back in the form of a surcharge now on ECL violations like they do on all the others.
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Post by milkie62 on Mar 25, 2013 1:44:33 GMT -5
Got the info needed and will keep it in the truck.
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