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Post by bballou on Feb 16, 2013 8:50:08 GMT -5
Chappy ----as soon as I stop laughting Ill answer------- never thought of it that way----AND YOU ARE 100% CORRECT. Oldeman----You also (IMO) are 100% correct----they do a great job of adapting to there suroundings----I know they have moved into a lot of the upstate villages and citys----ONE spring waiting for an engineer at a bridge project (at a citys edge)----I saw 4 different mink moveing upstream in about a 30 min. time period. ----------I have often heard the coyote is suppose to be the most adaptiable-----but I think the mink is starting to push pretty hard.
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Post by mole on Feb 16, 2013 16:44:33 GMT -5
Water pollution changing their activities.?
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oldeman
Fulton Montgomery Fur Harvesters Ass.
Posts: 581
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Post by oldeman on Feb 16, 2013 16:58:32 GMT -5
I don't think it is water pollution Mole all of a sudden about a week ago I started seeing tracks along the small streams and beaver dams in my area.I think it has been a feeding issue here this year they were just somewhere else,maybe the shortage of rats and frogs from last summer.
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Post by jsevering on Feb 17, 2013 9:17:39 GMT -5
the water pollution thing my thoughts are to what degree... imagine pcb's and such arnt a good thing with the food base, reproduction and all that... but...
remember an old washing machine drum that was out in the middle of the neversink river... guess that's a form of pollution... it was canted at an angle... dirt and debris formed a small landing on part of the mouths side and the rest of the drum was full of water, packed full of shiners.... guess it offered them a sheltered area... neversink was about fifty to seventy feet wide... and fairly shallow, in this particular area, just above a small island... no overhead cover to speak of out in the middle like that... but boy did that set produce.... rats and mink... sometimes i wish for a little more pollution of that sort, not that much to be an eye sore, but.. just enough would be nice.... jim
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Post by bballou on Feb 18, 2013 8:29:11 GMT -5
My memory is real hazy on this----but wasent there a study years ago----where the findings (inital) were----the ink from news papers was causing a lot of mortality in the mink----seams the study covered the Mokawk river----Barge Canal and the Hudson River. Know I attended the opening introduction to the study----but dont remember anything after that. ANYONE ELSE REMEMBER THIS? ?
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Post by silverfox on Feb 18, 2013 8:29:31 GMT -5
i have scoured/ followed this thread dilligently (great info) and will now bow to the pro's and field this question, i have a stretch of stream, proly 3/4 of a mile, its about 15-20 feet wide average, fairly swift moving, very rocky both in creek and the banks, banks are littered with "shelved ledge" which creates natural cubbies everywhere, theres mink tracks up and down both sides the entire length (stream continues but the property i can trap doesnt) my question, general ballpark figure how many ,give or take, mink can i expect to or should (with proper sets) pull from that size area? thanks in advance, im planning to run a bunch of sets starting day after tomorrow following our pending storm
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Post by chappy on Feb 18, 2013 9:05:18 GMT -5
Bill,
I do remember a study that showed the relation between Higher mercury levels and reduced reproduction. Believe the study came out of Michigan. Should be some where on the Internet just can't find it.
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Post by mole on Feb 18, 2013 9:16:52 GMT -5
It makes perfect sense that mink mortality could increase from mercury contamination from their diet. The health officials warn humans about it, also other diseases. I see a lot of heart worm here. silverfox, it is hard to say how many mink can be taken from a certain area. as far as setting for mink now , I dont do it. this is beginning of mating season. females with litters. I just dont do it.
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Post by bballou on Feb 18, 2013 10:21:58 GMT -5
ED ---I am with you ---I do not trap mink in the spring (March --- April)---absoutly NO WAY-----to me its CUTTING your nose off to spite your face---- killing your new stock is all you will be doing.How many traps to set in a area---is a great QUESTION---- and I cant answer it----- I think its something you get a feel for after many years of trapping and sign reading----I think most trappers get a feel ---as to how many( PER STOP)---- how many (traps) up and down a (stream -- river) etc. -----some times if you set a couple of hot spots --- its all you will need --- many times 2 sets will provide 8 to 10 (or more) mink from a single area. You jest have to find that place to put your trap. The study may have included mercury ----I jest cant remember---Thanks for the help.
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Post by silverfox on Feb 18, 2013 11:30:52 GMT -5
thanks for the input!!! as for targeting mink this late in season (same debate as K9's into feb) my logic is this (and i do not make the claim i am right and folks who think different are wrong) but here in the NZ season runs till april 15th, are seasons (for the harvest of all species) not based on studies/data from supposedly educated "officials" (appointed by the state, based on "credentials"and paid a fair amount of money) whos "findings" dictate season dates based on the renewable ability of each species? could it be that here in the NZ the season is later because the breeding window is later? (im asking i dont really know), i observed this same debate here on the forum in regards to fox trapping VS breeding seasons (and it got quite heated to say the least) understanding that we as outdoorsman are the "real" stewards of the land, and therefore should follow sound management practices, are we in essence more knowledgable than the biologists and other professionals establishing harvest dates based on sound management? (surely theres some that truly are but that would have to be the exception) i dont hear anyone say "i dont deer hunt once the rut starts" (thats breeding season) or see anyone not harvest doe's during the late season (after beeing bred in essence killing up to 3 deer for every one doe harvested) and to me this kind of goes hand and hand, of course i am fully aware that the population density/recovery ability of prey species compared to predator species is completely different but have to assume that season dates are set for a reason based on population stability. i also fully understand not trapping a particular area out completely, and in this case the area im referring to has not been trapped at all for many years, (at least 15 according to land owner) so with all that being said, i fully admit im not familiar with mink habits like i am numerous other species and would really like as much substanciated input as to the potential impact my continued harvest of mink might be (while season is still open) if anyone has any, and again "mole" and "bballou" (sorry im not familiar with names on here yet) i appreciate your input and am receptive to what folks have to say, i am not the "my way or no way" kinda guy, as for the 8-10 from a single hot area!!!! wow!!! obviously i got alot more research to do!! thanks!!
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Post by jsevering on Feb 18, 2013 14:21:47 GMT -5
here it runs with rat season... starts late... ends late... the southern zone misses a good part of the early dispersal... and probably stays open a month to long... march into april ... if i had a dream wish...wish they would work on that... and no bill... not the month to long part...
some places the density of a given area would surprise you... even embarrass you some checking, if there's snow on, more than i ever would like to admit....
go a few hundred yards either way at times and scratch your head...what the heck happened.... i wouldn't even attempt to guess how many you should be able to take off that stretch.... but imagine right now there's at least one... possibly two good reasons for all the sign your seeing... jim
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Post by mole on Feb 19, 2013 6:48:51 GMT -5
one reason for the spring mink season; used to be closed here but people picking them up in rat sets and either tossing them or being outlaw and keeping them. DEC got a lot of complaints and that was there cure. I dont set for them, some do and thats their right. I just think its wrong.
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Post by jsevering on Feb 19, 2013 9:13:48 GMT -5
them little buggers singh up pretty good also this time of year....
heres a portion of a radio study that kinda goes against the normal way of the mink thinking grain some... jim
....................................................................................................... the American mink seems to be a more social species - intra-specific aggressive behaviour in the American mink population has never been recorded during a fairly long-term radiotracking study on many individuals. Moreover, we recorded three peaceful contacts between two male American mink and nine peaceful contacts between males and females of this species. It means that the two radiotracked individuals stayed close (e.g. in the same beaver burrow) without evident aggression. Five such peaceful contacts (3 between two males and 2 between males and females) were registered in the non-mating season (July, August, October, November, May). These five contacts continued for quite a long time, the maximum was 5 hours and 11 minutes when two male American mink were possibly sleeping in an abandoned beaver lodge. The other four peaceful contacts between radiotracked American mink continued for 10-32 minutes.
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Post by silverfox on Feb 19, 2013 9:32:09 GMT -5
one reason for the spring mink season; used to be closed here but people picking them up in rat sets and either tossing them or being outlaw and keeping them. DEC got a lot of complaints and that was there cure. I dont set for them, some do and thats their right. I just think its wrong. wow!!!!! proly not the best "fix" but that was what was bugging me most about it, "the why have a season if its bad for the species" thanks for the input mole!!!!.....so fur quality (as well as potential litter kill) is valid......im gonna do some more digging but startin to lean towards waitin till next year, wanted to set just to keep trapping (K9 closed and no access to good beaver or rat...yet...) might just have to succumb to the end of season being my reality
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Post by bballou on Feb 19, 2013 10:43:58 GMT -5
Silverfox----as to trapping mink in the spring -----ME --I dont do it ---- I will not tell you --- you cant---ME ---I jest wont do it on purpose. I do get a few each spring in beaver ---otter and muskrat traps.-----Every year I think trappers who catch a good amount of mink---find a few sets that will take----8 to 10 or more mink each season----sometimes year after year in the same sets-----but again I cant tell you what to look for ---- that makes these sets good catchers----ya jest set the trap where you know they will be.----and "hope" Jim---YOU JEST WONT GET OVER IT ----showing up a month to early at Castor Corners for the trapping season-----every time I say anything about doing something or going some place ---you have to say NOT A MONTH TO EARLY. You jest dont want your wife to find out ---- you spent that extra month relaxing in the hotel bar.---One question -----when are we going again.
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Post by jsevering on Feb 19, 2013 13:21:31 GMT -5
might be earlier than you think, bill ... wife found my supply of spring water... i know cause the blackberries are gone ... not good ... may need more than a month if she acquires a taste.... jim
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Post by bballou on Feb 19, 2013 22:59:35 GMT -5
Jim you better be careful----she gets to likeing that stuff---you will have to build a still. The last study told about the time mink spend together----- for the past few years I have notices catching more and more doubles-----enough doubles so its more than a fluke---anyone else noticed they are taking more doubles. MAY-BE WE ARE WITNESSING a change in habbits.
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Post by jsevering on Feb 20, 2013 6:43:23 GMT -5
kinda wondering what you consider a double on mink... where you stand in the water and can see mink in two sets close by or two or more mink off the same stretch... did the first a few times over the years, only once this year at the very start, but didn't trap very long into season... catching two or more off a stretch the same day, ive done quite a few times more over the years... guess they would both show about the same result density wise for a given general area....
use to hound my father with questions when i was younger... remember the first time it happened to me... must of asked him a hundred times why... best answer he ever gave me, or the one i wanted to accept was maybe they were litter mates... well any way it was the only one that would shut me up for a while... of course my uncle would come visit... and you know me bill,...the same questions, all over again...
here's one.. how about those rare hundred foot stretches you stumble on even... where you take five does off in a week to two weeks time.... always figured the does were more in tune to holding a core areas and the bucks were more transient.... when that happens it really makes you scratch your top some... don't know if its new habits or not, or something else there to be looked at also that makes that behavior acceptable... think its pretty interesting though... jim
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Post by mole on Feb 20, 2013 7:23:12 GMT -5
Double on mink in my thoughts is two within seeing distance or stop. Females up here are really taking a beating, heart worm. have caught some in one spot, usually after two I may pull trap.
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Post by jsevering on Feb 20, 2013 7:58:31 GMT -5
been asked about different type worms and parasites on the mink here over the years... i don't see it, but know others claim they see quite a bit of it in different areas of the state.... also know over the better part of the last ten years or better ed has been doing most of the skinning and gland collecting... so maybe im just not peeling the right... ones to notice...
know it wasn't the study you guys were talking about earlier... but remember reading a study on captive mink that were feed mercury and i think pcbs... in different dosages... the mercury and others... after a period of time messed with motor functions and reproduction...
didn't theyalso find lesions in the jaws of some a low percentge of the mink they biopsied when they were collecting mink heads back in the 90's or so if i remember right.... know that first study made mention of all the coal burning in canada... don't know much about acid rain and all... but didn't it affect or raise concern about your fisheries up that way some a while back also.... jim
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Post by bballou on Feb 20, 2013 8:56:13 GMT -5
JIM--- I concider a double on mink ------2 mink cough with in a few feet of each other ----I guess its a throw back from K-9 trapping-----where I always tryed to set at least 4 traps close together.---I have found setting traps close together--(for mink) much harder----cant find the GOOD location in the water I could on land. ED I am also finding lots of heart worm in mink-----back in the early 70's The area where I live had the most reported cases of heart worm in the state for many years-----I have lost touch with the reports in recient years----- Most of my mink trapping is further north ---but it didnt matter this year----still had lots of heart worm. tmc ----- I always though finding a lot of sign after I pulled my traps ---as having MURPHY or Jim rideing on my sholder. Also vice versa---findng lots of sign and setting traps and catching little or nothing.----Got so I jest figure it as part of trapping----usually because down the road I made up for it. Jim ---I do remember a study being started ---and the wanting of mink heads----as usuall I dont remember any results or the people who conducted the study. Its not nice getting old.
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Post by jsevering on Feb 20, 2013 14:10:12 GMT -5
sounds like a decent mornings adventure...be nice to catch one in your yard thats for sure...
murphy and me... poor ... poor bill ... kinda figured that was what you were talking about, but wasnt sure, when im lucky enough to luck into them like that, its usally a suicide set, either end or side... the one this fall though was from a long root sytem, hole punched through a small derbis pile on the upper end and an undercut blind at the lower, root system was about ten feet long, both mink were males...
talk about murphy good and bad, that was the same set earlier this year where snapping the water off, the bugger went flying out of my hand into the middle of the river, had to chase it down stream, trying to play the darn current to get it back.... jim
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Post by jdpaint on Feb 20, 2013 18:25:04 GMT -5
What is the best way to preserve mink and rat glands?Also how to slow down or stop rat carcusses from freezing and drying out ?
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Post by bballou on Feb 20, 2013 18:42:03 GMT -5
tmc ---is that what is known as ----HOME GOWN FUR Jim I love them root systems-----but love the trash piled along the edges and on the banks more----little buggers get the right smell ----- they will hang around until cough---- JIM I have put myself (more times than I want to remember) in the same situation----trying to dry or clean an animal-----got it figured now ------ tie a rope to them --- then I dont have to run----one time I was cleaning a beaver up in the snow he got away and was on thin ice----now that was fun---with no room for me ---- between the thin ice and the bank --finally got a rope on a leg.
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Post by mole on Feb 20, 2013 18:58:06 GMT -5
Canning salt for the glands. muskrat is so lean that drying out and or freezing is going to happen.
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