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Post by 160andup on Dec 14, 2012 8:00:28 GMT -5
on bringing someone on the trapline with you? Can they help paddle the canoe? I know with fishing (trolling) someone without a fishing license cant even drive the boat. I know if they're under 12 they can do anything due to the mentor program, but what about if they're over 12? Thanks guys
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Woj
#3 Newhouse
Posts: 3,381
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Post by Woj on Dec 14, 2012 8:04:00 GMT -5
Far as I know, the law is they can do anything BUT touch the traps.
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Post by Itrapny on Dec 14, 2012 8:09:09 GMT -5
Pretty gray area on that one You can't legally have anyone carry traps, equipment or animals for you without a trapping license so paddling a canoe while engaging in trapping should fall under that same criteria. Now if that person was fishing or hunting with you
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Post by trappermac on Dec 14, 2012 11:16:47 GMT -5
I would think someone could paddle a canoe and not be considered to be trapping......if someone drives your vehicle and pulls up to a fox set for you and you get out and tend the set is that driver trapping?
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Post by kritterpatrol on Dec 14, 2012 11:23:48 GMT -5
Easiest answer to that question is contact the local ECO and get their interpretation.
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Post by Itrapny on Dec 14, 2012 12:28:40 GMT -5
Mac....yes
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Post by trappermac on Dec 14, 2012 12:55:13 GMT -5
No way Wayne...can't be. I know some kids who have parents drive them to their trapsite after school, they have no trapping license. Someone can walk with you, if they do not have anything in hand...they're fine. But sitting in a truck waiting on someone tending a set is trapping? No way.
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Post by mikespring on Dec 14, 2012 13:04:06 GMT -5
I gotta agree with Mac on this...
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Post by rockintheocean on Dec 14, 2012 15:28:48 GMT -5
The fact is they are AIDING in the act of trapping .Even if you don't get out the car ,you provided the transportation .If someone is paddling the canoe as your setting or checking traps ,that person is indeed helping to trap.
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Post by trappermac on Dec 14, 2012 15:44:44 GMT -5
The fact is they are AIDING in the act of trapping .Even if you don't get out the car ,you provided the transportation . So if my wife drops me off 2 miles down the road to deer hunt my way back to the house, she is hunting?
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Post by herm on Dec 14, 2012 16:03:15 GMT -5
Wayne and rockingtheocean are correct.That is why we got the youth mentoring law passed.Some of the NYS laws are hard to follow and understand.Some of the hunting laws are out there also.A youth or anyone can not be afield with a dog as a dog is consitered a hunting impliment just as a gun is.If law inforcement really wants to get you they can.
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Post by rockintheocean on Dec 14, 2012 16:32:32 GMT -5
So if my wife drops me off 2 miles down the road to deer hunt my way back to the house, she is hunting? [/quote] That's why Wayne said gray area,depending on how the ECO looks at it.If he or she wrote you a ticket though ,bet you couldn't get it thrown out of court.Wife did help in the sense she dropped you off .If not then you would not have been able to hunt your way back.Now if you only had that one mode of transportation and wife needed car ,would the ECO understand or would they have said to you,did you have to hunt today?
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Post by skunkman on Dec 14, 2012 18:08:30 GMT -5
Here's another look at it, what if you are in the boat fishing, instead of trapping ? If one person is doing all the fishing,do others in the boat need a license also ? Or maybe just the driver,(paddler?)as he is helping you troll for them fish ? And what about the poor guy that towed the fishing boat to the lake ? He was also helping that fella catch some fish ? Maybe need a license also ? And the man that sold him the bait, he most certainly needs a license, without him you'd never catch a fish? He had to be helping out. ;D Glad I trap alone, and don't have no boat.
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Post by Hochay on Dec 14, 2012 18:29:41 GMT -5
Anyone can accompany you they just can not dispatch the animals.
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Post by herm on Dec 14, 2012 19:01:21 GMT -5
Anyone can accompany you they just can not dispatch the animals. Not true at all.Way off the mark.
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Post by 160andup on Dec 14, 2012 19:02:42 GMT -5
might just have to make them follow in a kayak... lol if that's legal?
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Post by rusty on Dec 14, 2012 19:40:08 GMT -5
Befor you buy a conoe make sure the sale woman has a trapping license lol this thead has gotten out of control. Every ECO opinion is going to be different . So when and if you get stopped just explain and hope for the best .
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Post by herm on Dec 14, 2012 19:51:43 GMT -5
The example of a youth paddling in a conoe was what was presented to the NYSTA BOD as to why we needed a youth mentoring law.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2012 21:14:01 GMT -5
Don't forget the guy that sold you the beer, or the guy that made the gun, or the ammo.......give em all tickets...lol
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Dec 14, 2012 21:24:33 GMT -5
So if my wife drops me off 2 miles down the road to deer hunt my way back to the house, she is hunting? That's why Wayne said gray area,depending on how the ECO looks at it.If he or she wrote you a ticket though ,bet you couldn't get it thrown out of court.Wife did help in the sense she dropped you off .If not then you would not have been able to hunt your way back. that's absurd... no way under the sun would that stick in any reasonable court. If convicted, I'd appeal that one higher and counter-sue for costs. The act of hunting does not begin when your wife/husband makes your sandwich and brews the coffee for lunch on an all-day hunt. After all... without that nourishment, you couldn't hunt all day. I have brought unlicensed observers along in my canoe before, and they paddled. Had I gone alone, I'd have paddled alone as usual. If someone else wants to observe while adding weight to my float, I'd expect they'd want to at least propel their own displacement along. For cripe sakes I'm not volunteering to take on ballast. They did not assist in the trapping efforts in any way. Had they not been in the back of that boat observing, I'd still be right there doing the same things without them. Gimme that case to try in court any day... it'd get tossed by the ADA ten times out of ten.
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Post by herm on Dec 15, 2012 6:18:08 GMT -5
The burdon of proof is higher on ECL Laws than other laws.The proof being that the defendent has a tough time proving he is not guilty.Might be very hard to prove that a person in a canoe was doing nothing in regards to trapping.Now that the courts also get a kick back on ECL convictions by the way of surcharges the offender is up againts it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2012 7:10:05 GMT -5
Would have to be a prick of a law enforcement officer to write some one a ticket for going on someone else's trappline as a observer without a licence. People just like to play lawer I guess.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2012 7:54:48 GMT -5
I am not a lawyer......I just play one on trapping forums.
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Post by mexicantrapper on Dec 15, 2012 14:46:18 GMT -5
Hate to say it guys but I just had this conversation with an ECO this week when he was tagging my fisher. Here's the senario I gave him. My adopted son turns 12 on March 9th and we have not been able to get him into a training course in the time since he was adopted. Can he run with me in the spring as long as he does not actively trap? His response was, If he is with you on the line he IS participating in the act of trapping and would be ticketed as such. Sorry, but that's right from the horse's mouth.
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Post by rockintheocean on Dec 15, 2012 15:56:38 GMT -5
Wow still going with this...lol You can always try and find a way around laws.your wife making lunch for you is not helping you to hunt ,shes feeding you, many days I'm so busy with work that I leave the house on an empty stomach and come home that way.Not going to die in 8-12 hours without food and water .water maybe if I'm trapping or hunting in the desert. people who sell you items to fish ,hunt trap, all have a license to sell that stuff ,but no laws against buying them with out a license.I never was asked if I had a license when buying traps.how do the sales person know what your up to for all they know you could be decorating your home with those traps .As far as just buying a canoe ,well that does not mean your using it to hunt ,fish or trap.,so how can they be involved.When your wife drops you off to hunt back to your house ,she very well knows what your up to and agreed to help you do it. No need to be a lawyer ,just need to know how to read.
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