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Post by twotrappers on Feb 16, 2012 17:19:06 GMT -5
Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs) are lands that are supposed to be managed for wildlife; wildlife study; and wildlife-related recreation. Wildlife-related recreation is hunting, trapping, and bird watching. WMAs have different rules & more restrictions than other "state lands". Many states include the language "public hunting area" and/or "open to licensed hunters & trappers". Which sinage do you think is more informative? We like the green signs and detest the yellow ones. We want the DEC to use the green signs. What are your opinions? [/img] Attachments:
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Post by jsevering on Feb 16, 2012 17:43:44 GMT -5
who's we ;D... jim
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Post by twotrappers on Feb 16, 2012 17:51:45 GMT -5
So far, My wife and I and a couple other people who agreed on another forum. What do you think?
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Post by jsevering on Feb 16, 2012 18:05:55 GMT -5
yellow kinda goes nice with hemlock... white contrast way too much in the darker woods and not enough in winter are they both gonna be metal or paper...
states kinda broke from what i hear... so much so... their back logged on wild life studies promised to be completed a decade ago... they have a way of following the money... do they have a poster in green ;D... jim
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Post by milkie62 on Feb 16, 2012 18:23:27 GMT -5
The yellow one looks better on my wall
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Post by jonathon721 on Feb 16, 2012 18:35:57 GMT -5
the white sign says "public hunting grounds". i think that could cause some confusion. i found out the hard way this year that huntable property doesnt mean trappable property. i was told lasts eason by a couple of nyc d.e.p offficers that watershed property was now open to trapping. what they didnt tell me was not all was trappable. i assumed that the huntable portions were also trappable. i found out i was wrong when an officer stopped me on my way in and made me pull all my sets. public hunting may or may not include trapping so on the signs it should say what is allowe. were i live i am surrounded by watershed property and all the signs have a picture of what is allowed. they are pictures of bowhunters for bow only fisherman for fishing only a trapper on trappable land and any land with more than one has multiple pictures. if a sign just says public hunting land that could be hunting only and cause some confusion and possibly trouble like i luckily managed to avoid.
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Post by Brunner on Feb 16, 2012 18:39:57 GMT -5
the white sign says "public hunting grounds". i think that could cause some confusion. i found out the hard way this year that huntable property doesnt mean trappable property. i was told lasts eason by a couple of nyc d.e.p offficers that watershed property was now open to trapping. what they didnt tell me was not all was trappable. i assumed that the huntable portions were also trappable. i found out i was wrong when an officer stopped me on my way in and made me pull all my sets. public hunting may or may not include trapping so on the signs it should say what is allowe. were i live i am surrounded by watershed property and all the signs have a picture of what is allowed. they are pictures of bowhunters for bow only fisherman for fishing only a trapper on trappable land and any land with more than one has multiple pictures. if a sign just says public hunting land that could be hunting only and cause some confusion and possibly trouble like i luckily managed to avoid. Nearly made the same mistake myself this year.
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Post by mikespring on Feb 16, 2012 18:59:45 GMT -5
LMAO @ Jim. S I needed that.....
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Post by milkie62 on Feb 16, 2012 19:25:45 GMT -5
You would think if you could hunt coyotes on state land that you could also trap them.In fishing only areas are bows allowed for carp I would hope not..
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Post by sixgun44 on Feb 16, 2012 21:23:52 GMT -5
I live a few miles from the Alcove resevoir and the only signs there are white and black federal posted signs for miles in all directions...drives me crazy when i drive by and see 6..7.. or so muskrats on top of ice or swimming, hanging near shore...i would rather look at either one of those signs...at least people have some kind of access on those tracks of land.
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Post by twotrappers on Feb 16, 2012 21:45:28 GMT -5
the white sign says "public hunting grounds". i think that could cause some confusion. i found out the hard way this year that huntable property doesnt mean trappable property. i was told lasts eason by a couple of nyc d.e.p offficers that watershed property was now open to trapping. what they didnt tell me was not all was trappable. i assumed that the huntable portions were also trappable. i found out i was wrong when an officer stopped me on my way in and made me pull all my sets. public hunting may or may not include trapping so on the signs it should say what is allowe. were i live i am surrounded by watershed property and all the signs have a picture of what is allowed. they are pictures of bowhunters for bow only fisherman for fishing only a trapper on trappable land and any land with more than one has multiple pictures. if a sign just says public hunting land that could be hunting only and cause some confusion and possibly trouble like i luckily managed to avoid. Hey Jon, was that a WMA? If you look at the guide to laws & regs, the magazine you get when you buy your license, on page 58; there is a section about WMA regs. It clearly states trapping is permitted, except as specifically restricted by posted notice. This is why we got to be hawk - like stewards of our WMA land, which only comprises 187,000 acres compared to the vast amount of total public land. Its the only public land that defines hunting as a priority use and hunters as legitimate users.
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Post by inthewoods on Feb 17, 2012 8:09:08 GMT -5
Jon If you go on the nyc dep watershed website it shows every property and its designated use along with maps. this is from the website. Trapping is only allowed on Public Access Areas and tappers must possess a valid New York State trapping license and follow all applicable New York State trapping regulations, including species restrictions and seasons. www.nyc.gov/html/dep/html/recreation/hunting_and_trapping.shtml
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Post by jonathon721 on Feb 17, 2012 8:19:52 GMT -5
It isn't a state land wma. It was watershed property. I used my instance as a point. Most people know that the yellow state land signs mean we can trap hunt hike etc. The white one just says hunting. I was only trying to comment on signs like that so it hopefully keeps someone from getting confused and in trouble. As far as watershed property use I know have a list and map of what areas are open to what activities. My mistake was an easy one to make and could happen to someone else. I was trapping on land open to rifle hunting for both big and small game and since I was told trapping was allowed I assumed it was ok were I was. The topic if this thread is about Wich sign is more informative and I was only trying to make a point about signs being more informative to help save at least one person from getting into trouble.
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Post by pauljohnson on Feb 17, 2012 8:34:29 GMT -5
Yellow. The white one sayes hunting grounds. The yellow tells me it is state land open to more than just hunting. The white 1 could be construed to the anti's to hinder other activities like trapping. just my opinion.
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Post by twotrappers on Feb 17, 2012 11:11:44 GMT -5
It isn't a state land wma. It was watershed property. I used my instance as a point. Most people know that the yellow state land signs mean we can trap hunt hike etc. The white one just says hunting. I was only trying to comment on signs like that so it hopefully keeps someone from getting confused and in trouble. As far as watershed property use I know have a list and map of what areas are open to what activities. My mistake was an easy one to make and could happen to someone else. I was trapping on land open to rifle hunting for both big and small game and since I was told trapping was allowed I assumed it was ok were I was. The topic if this thread is about Wich sign is more informative and I was only trying to make a point about signs being more informative to help save at least one person from getting into trouble. Sorry about that, I got ya. But sometimes the DEC "coops" with other goverment landholders, like parks, dept of transportation. Im still confused, but sometimes thses are eluded to as WMAs & sometimes not. The signs you describe sound better, though I made the same mistake being out of bounds years ago. I was just told to pull up & wasnt ticketed. Hopefully you were not ticketed. Your point is well taken. Not sure if I explained my end though. I hunt & trap. Hunting is considered a priority use and is almost always alllowed on WMAs. Trapping is considered a wildlife management tool ( trappers cooperate to obtain expensive & hard to obtain data, like carcasses, teeth, etc., or by answering surveys) It is also a tool because sometimes furbearers need to be controlled. Most states use this as the basis for allowing trapping on WMAs.( Hunting is different because although we buy trapping licenses, most WMAs are funded by excise taxes on firearms, ammo, archery gear, and a few hunting assecories.) As trapping is a secondary use on WMAs funded or partially funded by wildlife restoration funds or PR funds; other activities are secondary to the "Priority" uses Hunting, wildlife study, and bird watching. Dont scoff at bird watchers, the avid ones like trapping.) Trapping is a regulated secondary use. We have seasons and other restrictions consistent with sound conservation. Other secondary activities are not seasonal and with few or no restrictions. These activities also sometimes interfere with hunting, trapping, even bird watching. They also subject wildlife to year-round harassment, as there are no seasons. I have hunting dogs & am a dog lover. But dogs in the off season are hard on small game and furbearers, yet that is an unregulated activity. There are provisions for activities which interfere with priority uses, that is hunting as well as wildlife. But try to get it enforced. Bottom line is, these lands are FOR wildlife and associated recreation. There are plenty, plenty, plenty, of places for other activities. We are limited by not only safety, but by where the game/furbearers are... We cant shoot anywhere, they can go almost anywhere. If you trap rats or hunt ducks a pine forest wont do you any good, but is fine for the skier, etc.. There are only 87,000 acres of WMA lands in NY which is miniscule to the total public lands.
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Post by herm on Feb 17, 2012 17:34:08 GMT -5
Hunting dogs are regulated year around in NYS.There is a season where they can not be afield without a special license,a running season or training season,and a season where they can be used in the harvest of game. The definition of what hunting is in NYS clearly includes bird watchers.However I have to agree with your post that it will never be inforced.
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Post by twotrappers on Feb 18, 2012 21:08:33 GMT -5
That brings up a lot of stuff. First, enforce may be misleading because its not a violation of law by a person; but it is a state not complying with set conditions of recieving federal funds.
Regarding bird watchers.. Birders sneak around in camo like we do. For them to watch wildlife, they cant be making a big footprint & they dont.
About dogs.. There are special permits that can be issued to train hunting dogs or hold hunting dog competions, called field trials or hunt tests on WMAs. Hunting dogs are highly regulated, like hunting itself, and trapping. But I wasnt refering to gundogs. I mean the much larger general public harassing wildlife with their dogs; especially in the warm months when young are being reared. Even indirect harasment can have a bigger impact then one would think. Studies have shown this over and over with ground nesting birds, like turkeys for example. It is reasonable to assume the same is true with mammals. How many turkeys did you shoot last year? Well one dog walker can kill a whole clutch (10 or more) just by flushing the brood & exposing it to predators. Or by simply playing with eggs or eating them. Anybody who is out there in the warm months is a potential impact, but when accompanied a dog, even a mop dog named FEE-Fee, the problem is magnified.
Some WMAs are closed during the warm months, but most are not. To encourage a multi use concept on WMAs defeats the purpose.
Non wildlife related activities are only to be allowed when they do not interfere with wildlife related activities such as hunting. Try to get it enforced.... Non wildlife related activities that interfere with wildlife itself are also not to be allowed. Try to get that one enforced..
True some of this is gray and subjective. But a major tenet and principle of wildlife management is that it is foremost to "manage" Human use & access to the resources. Federal funds are dispersed to states under the condition the state manages resources correctly. When periodic federal audits finds a particular state not in compliance; funds are withheld and redistributed to other states.
I think the way the state manages is in response to our attitudes as "stakeholders". If we continue to collectively agree to the "multi-use" concept we will continue to get second rate management. To change this requires that we change our attitudes.
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