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Post by johnrockwood on Sept 8, 2020 20:32:53 GMT -5
I'm going to tell you all a true story. I spent much of the day today putting this story together as timeline of events leading up to, and through, the recent DEC Water Season Date Change Proposal as published in the State Register on June 3, 2020. This is an honest, factual timeline backed up with time stamped documents. Hopefully, this will set the record straight here. I felt compelled to do this after so much incorrect information has been presented by those that have NOTHING FACTUAL on which to base their suppositions and negative comments. 5/27/2020: NYSDEC prematurely (read accidentally/erroneously) emailed a notification of the Season Date Changes Proposal via their "DEC Delivers" notification system. 5/27/2020: NYSTA receives notification from a DEC employee that the "DEC Delivers" notification was prematurely distributed. 5/27/2020: As a result of the "DEC Delivers" notification, Dino copied the announcement to a post on this site to inform trappers reading here. Kudos to Dino! 6/3/2020: The DEC Water Trapping Season Changes Proposal was placed on the State Register for a 60 day comment period. 6/6/2020: NYSTA placed a notice of the proposed changes on the very Front, Home Page of the NYSTA Website. It would be the first thing seen by anyone upon accessing the website. Kudos to NYSTA. 6/7/2020: NYSTA announced the proposal and ensuing comment period on the NYSTA Face Book Page at 9:20 PM. Kudos to NYSTA again. 6/8/2020: NYSDEC announces the proposal via notification in its "DEC Delivers" "Hunting and Trapping" delivery system. (Same announcement as the premature 5/27/2020) 6/9/2020: Redknot posts notification of the proposal on the Trapperman.com site. Kudos to Redknot. 6/9/2020: Walleyed posts notification of the proposal here on this site. Kudos to walleyed. 7/18/2020: NYSTA BOD Meeting. Notification was given to all the Board Members in attendance that the proposal was placed in the State Register on June 3 for a 60 day comment period, please pass the word. As JTI Chair, I requested input from all members of the Board, after first consultating with as many of their "constituents" as they could reach. I asked to have that information relayed to me as early as possible but at least by, if I recall correctly, July 31. I stated at that time that if I received no input from them that I would have to assume that they, as well as those they represent, completely agreed with the proposal as presented in the State Register. 7/21/2020: I quote from our IT Chair, Ray Nolan, "On this date I moved the notice of proposed changes to the NYSTA News & Events Page; BUT, the notice of the proposed changes remained on the home page on the left had column titled LATEST NEWS which provided a link to the NYSTA News and Events Page that contained the entire notice. The notice was on the NYSTA website from June 6, 2020 until the present." End quote, from information received today 9/8/2020. 7/28/2020: A website member here started advocating for trappers to call Legislators regarding the proposed changes. A more informed note here: Lawmakers will not usually interfere with this legal process and usually will only inform you of the proper way to proceed with the process, encourage you to respond via the process, and generally respond to the caller with something like: "We will let the appropriate agency know we received feedback/concerns/comments from some constituents." In other words, commenting properly means following the instructions to comment given in the State Register! This is one of the differences between dealing with law changes and dealing with regulation changes - two entirely different processes. From 7/18/2020 through 7/31/2020: I received only one communication from a NYSTA Director containing the views of the trapper constiutents he represented in his Region. During this same period of time, I contacted numerous trappers, personally, to get their views and monitored the chatter on this site and elsewhere for additional viewpoints. I received NO other direct communication from any other trappers unless I initiated the communication, NONE. Again, all of my contact information has been out there for the world to use and abuse for decades. I received NOTHING further via phone, NOTHING further via email, NO ONE showed up at my house, NOTHING further via USPS mail (You remember, right? This is the letter in the mail, in an envelope with a stamp and a return address? Most of us here are old enough to remember that and the time it takes to get a response. ). NOTHING!!! Complacency? No one cares? Fur market is non existent? Who knows? 7/31/2020: I started drafting the official NYSTA response to the proposal in the early morning hours based on all feedback I had accumulated as well as input from NYSTA's JTI Committee Members. At 5:53 PM The first final draft was completed. I emailed the 1st Final Draft to the entire JTI Committee for further input, comment and/or approval. 7/31/2020: Early evening, I believe, I emailed a Final, Final Draft of the official NYSTA Comments to the JTI Committee for approval after some input from one of the Committee Members who is also a NYSTA Director. These changes were a result of direct feedback from trappers in his Region at a very recent local affiliate meeting. 7:31/2020: At 7:25 PM I emailed a notice that a potential final draft of the official NYSTA Response had been sent to the JTI Committee, and if approved, would be immediately available for forwarding. This email notice was sent to all of the NYSTA Officers, Directors, County Representatives, Affiliate Officers, Past Presidents, etc. that I had an email address for in my own contact list. One County Representative replied asking for a copy of the NYSTA response as soon as approved. This email also served as a final reminder that the Comment Period was closing within two days. I encouraged everyone to send in their comments, whether or not they agreed with the NYSTA response. In that email I also reminded all current NYSTA Officers, Directors, and County Representatives that providing comments to the proposal, was their obligation and duty. I informed all whom were sent this email that the final draft would be approved before noon on Saturday, August 1, 2020 and that if there was ANY further information anyone needed to relay to me regarding our official position, I needed to know that before I submitted my response. 8/1/2020: By 9:00 AM, at the latest, I had received approval correspondence from all members of the JTI Committee, except one. Those who responded approved unanimously of the language and content. However, I had also lost all internet service here at home. 8/1/2020: Internet service was restored at approximately 11:00 AM. I hit the send button on the keyboard to forward the Official NYSTA Comments to the proposal to the appropriate DEC email address at 11:08 AM. I Bcc'd all the Committee Members. 8/1/2020: 11:18 AM, I forwarded an approved copy of the NYSTA official response to the NYSTA County Representative who requested a copy. Job complete, off to my folks place (4 hours late) to parent sit for the weekend! 8/4/2020: The NYSTA bashing started, again, on this site with accusations of betrayals of trust, no representation, lack of communication, etc. The baseless accusations continue! End of true story, I hope you enjoyed it! I will again state that my contact information is published in numerous places. I will not respond on here, I'm only here to provide factual information. If you have questions, you are welcome to contact me via phone, email, or USPS mail.
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Post by Itrapny on Sept 10, 2020 4:45:24 GMT -5
How about we stop deflecting blame onto NYSTA for something that they didn't propose, its was the trappers of NY that brought about the season change by their comments in the trappers surveys sent out every year by the DEC I believe that what was stated in the original notification. As far as NYSTA not doing anything, specifically John Rockwood, most have things going on in their lives too, just like everyone else and guess what LIFE HAPPENS, so before we start crucifying NYSTA and specific people, lets keep that in mind. Finally, I want to see everyones name on a NYSTA ballot for an officer position for the next election that thinks (or knows) they can put forth a better effort and/or get better results than the current officers.
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Post by trappermac on Sept 11, 2020 10:32:15 GMT -5
I echo much of what Bob says, was glad for the changes down here for me but absolutely did not like the week loss in the northern zone. And I will say that I think I've gotten every survey sent by the DEC the past 5 years or so and I do not recall a question asking if I'd prefer a later muskrat season in that zone, but the surveys are another area that blame is being assigned. NYSTA has always preached that we should always fight to ensure nothing gets taken away from us, fight to keep what we have. That premise was not supported by NYSTA in this instance.
Yes, when is the last time there was any soliciting for nominees? I can't remember the last time. It would be difficult to become involved. There have been some very good people who came on board the past 5 or 6 years or so and who have left of their own accord due to how things were being run or were pushed away by back stabbing or being shut out of decision making. Basically they were expected to click their heels, sit up straight, and keep their mouths shut. Add to that no communication to the membership, hell, we weren't even aware of any officer changes including president changes. Everyone is simply appointed these days. I really don't think the BOD and officers realize the perception they evoke to the membership on how weakly things are run. Appearances can mean everything. There are many who feel this way, its not simply three people talking on here, trust me on that. So ask yourself why would someone who genuinely cares want to get involved? When an officer comes on here and tells a member that he is not a member in good standing and that he should refrain from membership simply for speaking his opinion, that he has done more to hurt trapping than the antis,.... why do more? I've said this before, if people are complaining you need to look at it and find out why. These grievances are spawned from genuine caring and concern. Instead you lash out.
You need to start seeing the poor way in which you are protraying the organization before you attract new people. You need to clean your house.
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Post by hardwoodcharlie on Sept 11, 2020 16:43:55 GMT -5
It’s been a while guys not even sure if I should comment?? But anyway.... it don’t take much of an imagination to put you in Bobs shoes,He is spot on when saying if we lost a week of k9 season that it wouldn’t tie our underwear in a knot.and It has noda to do with dollars and cents. As far as an earlier southern season yea buddy...but not if the only way is to take from the northern, after all as trappers are we not always striving for more not less??
Best wishes to everyone Charlie
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Post by jackspriggs on Sept 11, 2020 20:51:56 GMT -5
Milkie62 said, "Like I have stated before, I do not even know your name Walleyed so I cannot comment about you. Is there any chance that you can make a NYSTA meeting so that I can finally see who you are and introduce myself ? I would like to show and explain as I have to other members what I have done to protect & secure our treasury so another Gamba type thing never happens again."
Really??? Hate to break it to ya but that system was in place and running flawlessly before you arrived on the scene. Thanks to John Gidney. See, there are 2 key reasons that NYSTA is in the condition it is. (low memberships, lack of involvement)
First and foremost is the lack of communication from the top down because if they inform the general membership about important matters like reg changes or office vacancies, they can no longer control the agenda.
Number 2 is the same complaint that the membership has been hearing for years. " The same ten people do everything, what have you done to help NYSTA?." Well, let me tell you all a little secret, THAT'S THE WAY THEY WANT IT! Many very hard working members have resigned out of shear frustration. The frustration that comes from being dictated to and not allowed to effect necessary change to move the organization forward. Many of those were made out to be "the bad guy/gal or in it for personal recognition/gain. Maybe, just maybe, they weren't who they were made out to be.
Notice I have not named names, nor will I. We all know the who, what and when. NYSTA was bought and paid for years ago by a group who thought then, and still think, they know more than anyone else.
That friends is the truth
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Post by trappermac on Sept 12, 2020 8:16:34 GMT -5
Great post Jack. Thank you for confirming what many were only able to decipher from appearances. So sad that so many who volunteered their time to effect change and move the organization forward have been casualties of the reigning few. One can only hope that somehow things change.
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Post by joemarshditchrat on Sept 12, 2020 12:19:33 GMT -5
BOBBY FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!
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Post by herm on Sept 12, 2020 16:01:04 GMT -5
I am just a lowly county rep but I feel that my going to BOD meetings has well been worth it to me. You don’t have to be a director to make an impact on our trapping as I have always found the BOD willing to listen to anything I was proposing I also pass down information to our county sportsmen’s federation at our monthly meetings
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Post by milkie62 on Sept 12, 2020 22:29:23 GMT -5
Milkie62 said, "Like I have stated before, I do not even know your name Walleyed so I cannot comment about you. Is there any chance that you can make a NYSTA meeting so that I can finally see who you are and introduce myself ? I would like to show and explain as I have to other members what I have done to protect & secure our treasury so another Gamba type thing never happens again." Really??? Hate to break it to ya but that system was in place and running flawlessly before you arrived on the scene. Thanks to John Gidney. See, there are 2 key reasons that NYSTA is in the condition it is. (low memberships, lack of involvement) First and foremost is the lack of communication from the top down because if they inform the general membership about important matters like reg changes or office vacancies, they can no longer control the agenda. Number 2 is the same complaint that the membership has been hearing for years. " The same ten people do everything, what have you done to help NYSTA?." Well, let me tell you all a little secret, THAT'S THE WAY THEY WANT IT! Many very hard working members have resigned out of shear frustration. The frustration that comes from being dictated to and not allowed to effect necessary change to move the organization forward. Many of those were made out to be "the bad guy/gal or in it for personal recognition/gain. Maybe, just maybe, they weren't who they were made out to be. Notice I have not named names, nor will I. We all know the who, what and when. NYSTA was bought and paid for years ago by a group who thought then, and still think, they know more than anyone else. That friends is the truth Jack, I am not saying that John Gidney did not cleanup Gamba's mess. But some people are still talking about Gamba's mess so apparently some members that do not attend meetings do not know what has been done with the treasury since he left. John Gidney cleaned it up and I am continuing on with some of my own improvements. As of right now we do not have bonding due to Gamba and we must show the bonding company that we have our checks and balances in place so that we can be bonded again. Hence the reason that I do not get the check statement in the mail. It goes to the president and he looks it over and then gives it to me. I am new on the block so I do not know of any former BOD members frustrations.
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Post by milkie62 on Sept 13, 2020 1:12:12 GMT -5
Let me go on record that I fully support The Gidneys and it was a sad day when NYSTA lost them. Those two jumped in with both feet and untangled the financial mess that Gamba left.I have heard the rumors spread against them by one officer, and my reply is the same as my reply to Gamba's Treasurer report, "I don't buy it". Al, were there checks & balances during your tenure ? There was pre-Gamba & post Gamba. I have only been involved in NYSTA for the last couple of years even though I have belonged since 1986. Were the finances ever checked prior to Gamba ? If not, then why not ? As of now we are way past Gamba times. John Gidney straightened it out and now we have checks and balances in place. Gamba-type tampering is over. Also when John Gidney was treasurer he made it a point to tell affiliates that they are responsible to get their financials in on time, just like yearly taxes. So why do affiliates say they never got a notice to send them in ? Are we all big boys and girls or do we need a yearly reminder and still do not do it ? So what do I do when you send a notice and nothing comes back ? Or they say they are not treasurer anymore ? Is it NYSTA's job to track these people down ? Right now from a financial point we need to find out how many life members we have along with proper addresses. Being that I work at a postal plant I see an undeliverable TP from time to time. Is it a member who moved ? Is it a member who is deceased ? We need a person or persons to go through the life member list. Maybe the directors should take the list of names from their area and follow up.
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Post by lauragidney on Sept 14, 2020 16:39:36 GMT -5
You know, for the past two years after we walked away from NYSTA, my husband and I haven't said a word. (Notice I said "walked away" because that's what we did, make no mistake about that.) Not even a word posted when members of the board were lying about and trashing us behind our backs. We took the high road and just made a couple of phone calls to the President and Vice President so they would tell certain people to stop slandering us and trying to tarnish our good reputation. We just wanted to be left alone…but you (certain board members) had to keep using our names and speaking to things you have no first-hand knowledge of. So now I’m done with sitting back and not saying anything. You can thank yourselves later.
Just my opinion, but regarding the original topic here, a lot of things could've been solved very simply. An "I'm sorry" to Walleyed and all the other northern zone trappers would've been a nice place to start rather than the response that was given. Then, it didn't end there, we get into verbal attacks on long standing members because they ask a question or have their own opinion because they are frustrated with the things they see or don’t see going on with NYSTA. Then we have the Treasurer doing the same with the affiliates. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that's probably not very professional, nor is it the right way for NYSTA to respond to the membership. How does this help NYSTA gain trust and support from the members and affiliates? Again, just my opinion, but like I said that doesn't matter much right? After all, in the words of a now former Executive board member, " Laura doesn't deserve to be in the Board room, she belongs in the kitchen with the rest of the women."
So now, in the spirit of being open and honest and telling true stories, I'd like to tell you all a few things as well as clarify some others. We left on our own. It was out of pure frustration and a lack of cooperation from the board on important treasury matters. We will leave out the details on my husband NOT signing his name to taxes that he couldn’t confirm were 100% truthful because he was not provided with the requested documentation from a certain individual. When I say “requested” I’m talking upward of 20 times here including requests from the accountant and he still got nothing. Anyway, like Jack said earlier in this thread, they say they want change but they really don't. The good ole boys are really happy with the way things are. Unless you're going to tow the company line, get out or be forced out. There’s no real way to effect change right now. For example, there was a director in one particular region who couldn't be a director anymore. Certain individuals on the board did not want the County Rep who wanted the position to have a vote so they kept the original Director there, in name only, and never said there was a vacancy ...until that Rep wasn't at a meeting. Then they brought in their pick, who also doesn't even live in that region, to fill the Director seat. And you’ve all wondered why nobody could ever move things forward... they always have the vote and make sure of it.
This whole thing started at an "emergency meeting" on Mother's Day in 2016. The treasurer was removed from office and the President at the time was being removed that day, the old VP had already resigned so there was nobody to do the convention. It was a lot. In that meeting, NYSTA needed to pick a treasurer, it went around the room three times. Nobody wanted it, (and sorry to burst your bubble Milkiewicz, your name never came up). So, my husband stepped up. Then it came time for someone to run the convention, again around the room several times. Nobody wanted to do it. So, my husband and I volunteered. Then the old President was reinstalled to run things again as NYSTA was in a pretty bad spot. During that meeting, my husband was also asked to be the VP instead of the treasurer. He said no, he'd just do the convention and that he didn't need or want the title and for them to find someone else. (Which they did a short time later when Jack Spriggs stepped up) Now, to those that say we were in it for personal gain or that we wanted to take over let's be honest here, it's a bunch of bull. Is that the best you could come up with? Personal gain? What gain? What did we get besides a headache? My husband didn't even take the treasurer's salary that he was entitled to. He donated it back to NYSTA. He lost 6 personal days trying to get NYSTA's account straight. He’s spent countless hours on NYSTA business. Do you have any idea how much work goes into the convention? Or the hours that went into untangling NYSTA’s finances? Yeah, lots of personal gain there. And tried to take over? That's absolutely laughable. "Hey we need help with this, nobody else will do it." "Ok, I’ll help out." Wow... how absolutely horrible of us. When there’s a need, you’re supposed to step up and help out especially when nobody else will. And NYSTA wonders why they have trouble finding volunteers.
Let's talk treasury for a moment. When my husband took over, he was literally handed a checkbook with a handful of months accounted for. That's it. Nothing else. NYSTA had ABSOLUTELY NO RECORDS. We went about trying to get as much back information for NYSTA as possible. Bank statements as far back as the bank would allow and not just for the general checking account. We did it for the investment accounts and the raffle account as well. Plus, Gamba had a NYSTA credit card too. It was certainly a lot to go through but it helped paint a picture of what had been going on. About the raffle account, it took over a year for Gidney to get access to it even though he was ultimately responsible for it as the treasurer. Why you ask??? The holder of the account, which was different than Gamba, was used to running things his way with no accountability or oversight so the change was unwelcomed to say the least. He NEVER gave an accounting of what was in the raffle account at a board meeting...ever. How do you like that? NYSTA's raffle account that was supposed to help make money for the organization went unchecked all those years until Gidney insisted and even though he insisted, there was never an accounting for the ins and outs given. How much were the tickets? How many do we need to sell to break even on a raffle? How much did we make after expenses? Did we lose money? Was that particular raffle worth it? Nobody will ever know because they didn’t track the money or account for it. But I can say this, the payment for the prizes/winnings came out of the general checking account after the then President wrote the winner checks out of his personal account because the account holder wasn't doing his job. Also, in two years, the raffle account never transferred money to support the general account. When it came time to remove this person from the raffle account and hand it to the new guy, he wouldn't give the checkbook over so we had to go to the bank and remove him from the account and cancel all the checks in his possession. Would it have been easier to start a new account you ask?? Probably. But NYSTA does not have any of the required paperwork in their possession to do so.
Regarding the BONDING: Let me be perfectly clear here. DALE GAMBA WAS IN FACT BONDED. I can say that...do you know why?? BECAUSE I HAVE THE EMAILS, BANK STATEMENTS, CANCELLED CHECKS AND A COPY OF THE INSURANCE POLICY TO PROVE IT!!! Let me let you in on another little secret. John Gidney was ALSO BONDED! How amazing is that when the company line is that it can't be done!!! You see when my husband resigned, NYSTA inherited what I like to call the golden egg. Literally everything my husband did as treasurer was documented in two black file boxes. In those boxes was a file called "BILLS TO BE PAID" and inside that file was a bill to renew the bonding. You see the three board members who came to my house to pick everything up didn't listen. We told them several times it needed to be paid and that they had to call the insurance company and add the new treasurer by name. We know they didn't do it since the current treasurer stated here that he is not bonded. So now, here's NYSTA in the "post Gamba" days, as the treasurer called it, without one of the major safeguards to NYSTA's money that my husband made sure was in place. Good Job. But let me get back to the fact that Dale was bonded for a minute. Instead of being mad that nothing's happened regarding that case, maybe you should be asking why. Why was the ball dropped? I gave the board a long list of suspicious charges to the NYSTA accounts for things like a boat slip, tax software, a trac phone, gas, etc. totaling about 15 thousand dollars. Was it ever passed along to the DA? I don't know. Do the members realize that tax documents are public record and a quick little google search will pull up NYSTA's tax records? I know because I googled and have copies of that too. Did the fact that NYSTA's monies dropped by over 100 thousand dollars raise any red flags? I understand the market fluctuates, but that’s a lot of money. Did they look into it or do anything about it when I brought it to their attention? I don't know. Now right here I can tell you exactly what the company line will be...if we go after him "We'd have to prove the charges," "the bonding paperwork is too hard to fill out," "the bonding company will try to spin it like NYSTA was negligent," "it costs too much to go after him," "we might never recover anything." Well, aren't these some of the reasons NYSTA approved a 5-thousand-dollar budget for a Lawyer? Didn’t you need him to fill out this "difficult" paperwork? Weren't you guys supposed to get the meeting minutes together in order to prove you didn't approve the payment for a boat slip and the other ridiculous charges? What did the Lawyer actually do for the money you paid him? I know my husband wrote out a $1500.00 retainer check. What did NYSTA and the members get for their spent money? How do you expect the membership to feel if he gets away totally free and clear? Maybe on the bonding it doesn’t matter anymore, I’m pretty sure NYSTA let the statute of limitations run out on that one but it’s still something to think about.
Now let's talk safeguards. Gidney put A LOT of things into place to make sure that nobody could steal from NYSTA again. Besides getting himself bonded, he established safe guards for the NYSTA accounts and convention too. Some will say you need 2 signatures on a check, which all fine and dandy but when your treasurer lives in Orange County and the President in say Oswego, that not really possible. So, what was done instead? The Treasurer was not the only person on the accounts and my husband NEVER wrote a check or paid for anything without a receipt first. Everything was documented. The President, the Vice President and the webmaster (at the time) all had access to the NYSTA accounts. (You may be asking why the webmaster right now so I'll tell you why. Because he ran the PayPal account for memberships through the website and in order to transfer the funds, he needed access but I'll get into PayPal later on) Any one of them, at any time, day or night, could go online and check any of NYSTA's accounts. Online banking is a great tool if you know how to use it. You see at the board meetings; with Gidney, the BOD got a real time accounting of NYSTA's monies. They got the CURRENT balance of every account, with a copy of the printed statement from each account plus the record of what came in and what went out. Not what happened a month ago which is what the current treasurer is doing with the paper statements getting mailed to the president now. That system is what people did in 1950. Do you even realize that by taking away the online banking, you took away the oversight? Not that the current treasurer would do this but just say he cleaned out the NYSTA accounts on the first of the month, the President who gets the statements wouldn't know a thing until he got the statement at the end of the month. Whereas with online banking he could've been checking the account every day if he wanted to. Not so safe is it?? Especially since the current treasurer IS NOT bonded. How about NYSTA learn from past mistakes and not repeat them. In regards to the convention, I’m fairly sure everyone knows the old cash register didn't work and had no tape in it for accounting purposes. So, the first thing we did was get a working cash register and program it for everything NYSTA sells. It also had tape and not only printed a receipt for the customer, it kept a record for NYSTA. Then, at the end of each day, you could "Z" out the machine and know exactly how many t-shirts you sold, what color they were, how many memberships, chicken dinners, pins, raffle tickets, etc. that were sold each day. There was a button for everything. Now that NYSTA knew exactly what was sold, they knew exactly how much money came in. And here's another safe guard, three people at all times brought the money to the safe and counted it BUT NEVER THE SAME THREE and then each person put their signature on it and sealed it in an envelope. On the final convention count there were 7 people. Here's a little side note, in 2012 when the fur prices were really high, NYSTA had close to 2200 people through the gate for the convention. That year it was recorded that NYSTA made around 26 thousand on the convention. In 2016, when the fur market tanked and the year we did the convention, we had roughly 1500 people through the gate and NYSTA made almost double. You do the math. Here in lies the reason safeguards are so important and why you should not be doing away with any of them.
Affiliates. The current treasurer made some statements regarding my husband and them. Again, enough with you speaking about us especially when you have ZERO firsthand knowledge of anything. Your words are as follows: "When John Gidney was Treasurer, he made it a point to tell affiliates that they are responsible to get their financials in on time, just like yearly taxes. So why do affiliates say they never got a notice to send them in? Are we big boys and girls or do we need a yearly reminder and still not do it? So what do I do when I send a notice and nothing comes back? Or they say there's no treasurer anymore? Is it NYSTA's job to track these people down?" ..........Again, I know you are speaking here on things you "heard" because you were NEVER in the board room when Gidney was the treasurer. You see, Dale did not require the affiliates to do anything. He did whatever he did himself. My husband is an honest man who really wanted this organization to be strong and united as well as run like a professional business/organization. In following the guidelines from the new accountant, he reached out to the affiliates and explained what he needed and why it was necessary...He didn't "just tell them to do something." He reached out via email, snail mail and by phone on multiple occasions. He spent time at the convention speaking with affiliate board members...he didn't just put a blurb in the back of the Trappers Post hoping for a response. As far as a reminder, in any business situation there are checks and balances. Any treasurer worth their salt would never just pay anything out without a receipt even if it is a yearly expense. So, if you want affiliate dues, you send a bill. If you need an accounting for the taxes, you send a letter, well in advance of the due date, so you don’t have to keep filing for an extension. You need to explain in detail what you need or include the accounting format that was in one of the file boxes we gave you, so the affiliate can just fill it in. If they can't do it, offer to help. Make multiple attempts like we did, it’s your job as the treasurer. This isn’t a once and done situation, the officers in the clubs change all the time. If still nothing comes back after multiple attempts, then you don't include them on the taxes. That affiliate will then be responsible to the IRS themselves and not eligible for the NTA insurance. But I'm sure you already knew that right? Having an attitude about the situation does nothing to foster a good working relationship with the affiliates.
Membership. Having only one person with the master list is not exactly what most people would call a safeguard. If the NYSTA computer crashes or something bad happens and everything is lost, where does that leave things? It would be smart to treat things like the memberships, like they really matter. You need to back things up and have multiple copies in multiple places. That’s just smart business. Mike Finn preached about backing things up at every meeting for years. Of course, nobody listened to him either. But really, one person should not be holding all of NYSTA's cards. Also, in regards to the lifetime membership mess that the treasurer brought up earlier on this thread, I said 4 years ago to mail a post card to every lifetime member asking them to update their information. If nothing was returned to NYSTA, then remove them from the membership list and stop paying for their Trappers Post. Simple solution. But you didn't listen on that either, so here you are all this time later, with the same problem and still paying for them. Genius.
Newsletter and communication. I know members are angry and I get why. I will say that the paper newsletter in the old format was very costly at 6 to 7 grand a year. In coming out of the Gamba mess, it wasn't a feasible option. The Trappers Post, website, email and communication from the Directors and Rep's was supposed to be the new plan. Obviously, there is a serious break down in communication that needs to be addressed. While I know some may have had trouble getting onto the last website, there was never a lack of information on it, except for meeting minutes. But they were never sent to Mike Finn with any consistency, so that's not his fault. He made sure the site was current and if something needed attention, he took care of it immediately. He sent emails out to the members and added new emails to the list whenever they were given to him. He was in regular contact with the affiliates, posting their news. Ask me how I know... because I was also on the IT committee, I could see every email he sent. Every response to a member with a question. Every time he updated something; I got a notification. I even knew when he mailed stuff out from the webstore. He called us to let us know money was being transferred from PayPal. He worked on that site 24/7. As far as the Trappers Post, that's the Secretary's job to get the report in on time and update there. I understand the current Secretary is out of the country a lot, so the board should’ve made arrangements to assist him when he was unable to fulfill his duty. Now, the Directors and Rep's according to the NYSTA Bylaws, are supposed to disseminate information to their local trapping clubs as well as the trappers/members in their area. See this is where information sharing comes in handy. If the Directors and Reps in each area actually had the membership info of the trappers in their area, they could communicate with them. But when jobs aren't being done efficiently, you run into problems. And for the record, and of course in my opinion, the proposed member liaison position while well intentioned should not be necessary. How about people do the job they volunteered for, and if they can't, then instead of making excuses and complaining, step aside and let someone else do it. It really doesn’t take that long to send and email or attend an affiliate meeting.
Speaking of PayPal, NYSTA will never know how much was or wasn’t left in the Gamba era PayPal account. NYSTA could never seem to find a way to get access to it. With the current one, when's the last time NYSTA transferred money out of it from the automatic renewals? Do you even know how? We always had to transfer the money manually, and then checked online to make sure it went smoothly. I guess it’s difficult to do with no online banking.
A few other things, the current treasurer needs to change some things to his address. I still get NYSTA mail, which gets returned to the sender. The accountant, IRS and Conservation Council need updated NYSTA information for sure. It was SO important for NYSTA to be members of the council when Gidney was treasurer, but yet NYSTA hasn’t paid their dues. The phone was ringing here just the other day asking for the renewal. Next, please crack open those boxes we gave you and give Bill the information that's inside. It would be way easier than him asking me where we got stuff for the convention. Another thing, it might be a good time to finally follow through on getting NYSTA the paperwork they need to prove they're an association. That way you can actually get the youth camp a separate bank account or move any of NYSTA’s accounts if you want or need to. Plus, did you get the state tax ID number yet or are you still using your federal number as the state one? You know until you get it, the association is supposed to pay tax on the things they buy right? And hey, when's the last time you did an audit according to the Bylaws?
I could go on but I won't. You all get the picture and it’s not a pretty one. Like I said, you should’ve kept your mouth shut and left us alone.
Laura
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Post by trappermac on Sept 14, 2020 17:58:42 GMT -5
Wow, what a great post. Open and honest, telling it like it is. The Gidneys and Mike Finn have my respect for their efforts to fix things while all the time being fought by others from within.
Broken cash register at the convention, so Gamba could just unload it at will with no accountability. Dumb
I know Dave Miller ran the raffle, sounds like it was a nice cash cow for him. Another thief?
Thank you Laura for the insight, and for caring enough about the members to bring so much to light.
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Post by walleyed on Sept 14, 2020 18:01:28 GMT -5
Laura,
Thank you for the update on things that the membership didn't know.
You Go, Girl !!!
Kudos for all of your's and John's hard work.
walleyed
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austin
test results are back... I am joerat's daddy
Posts: 483
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Post by austin on Sept 14, 2020 19:46:13 GMT -5
I have known countless small organizations hit with embezzlement, including VFWs, Fire Departments, Sportsman Clubs, several state trapper organizations. In every case with zero exceptions, the total losses were ALWAYS far greater than any estimates when reconciled thru audits. I highly doubt NYSTA would be the first exception to that sad list of victims.
There has to be redundancy and several checks & balances on every dime that flows either direction. Minus that, leakage is inevitable.
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paintedpaw
Retired NYSDEC Lake George Ranger
Posts: 688
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Post by paintedpaw on Sept 14, 2020 20:07:54 GMT -5
Thank you Laura for telling it the way it is. I was aware of a lot she said, but certainly not all. Without a doubt in my mind John and Laura Gidney are as honest as they come .Mike Finn too. Without them NYSTA would still be in a giant financial maze. I do not understand the attitude of some officers and Directors. I've said for a long time that NYSTA needs to stop being a "good old boys" club and function in the twenty first century. As for the accusation of the Gidneys "trying to take over" I say horses***! For a long time there was an individual that was trying to run the show; fortunately that person got caught up with and is gone. The truth of the matter is that I felt that as a director I had a responsibility to our membership and I saw what was happening, so I got out. The Gidneys are a young couple, far more uptodate with this modern world than I. They got things done. The truth is that there are some officers and BOD members that should not be there, that don't contribute a d@mn thing. There are others that are truly dedicated and have my utmost respect. The failure of NYSTA to active go after Gamba is a dereliction to the membership. As Laura pointed out, why are we paying that money to a lawyer that accomplishes absolutely nothing, but take NYSTA money. I've heard every excuse in the book, but the truth is that this is a prime example of the laid back "good old boys club" in action. The lack of checks and balances allowed Gamba to reach in our pockets and smile at us while doing it. Thank you again Laura and John Gidney along with Mike Finn. I fully support them and I don't give a d@mn who does not like that. I can think for myself, not listen to caty rumors. and thank you Laura for putting it all out there. I hope that many of the membership will read it. God Bless.
Al
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Post by whartonrattrapper on Sept 15, 2020 6:24:02 GMT -5
Thank you Laura for the candid response. When I met you and John at the first elite trappers school your enthusiasm for trapping and your family showed through. When I saw you took an active role in NYSTA I knew you would be great ambassadors for us...if they let you. Kudos for having the ball's to come on here and set the record straight.
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Post by herm on Sept 15, 2020 13:47:19 GMT -5
This site in my option just hit an all time low when someone cane state that Dave Miller is a possible thief. Don’t we have moderators on this site anymore
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Post by trappermac on Sept 15, 2020 14:17:03 GMT -5
This site in my option just hit an all time low when someone cane state that Dave Miller is a possible thief. Don’t we have moderators on this site anymore I questioned it, I did not state it. Since he ran the raffle during the time period that it has been implied no monies were ever realized from, it does lead to the question.
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tmc
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,447
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Post by tmc on Sept 16, 2020 8:02:44 GMT -5
Oh, herm, there are moderators... Want proof? - just counter something that He Who Has No Name puts on here and your post WILL be deleted after He Who Has No Name whines about what you typed about He Who Has No Name.
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Post by walleyed on Sept 16, 2020 10:42:43 GMT -5
Oh, herm, there are moderators... Want proof? - just counter something that He Who Has No Name puts on here and your post WILL be deleted after He Who Has No Name whines about what you typed about He Who Has No Name. Tim. I'm confused. Just who is: "He who has no name" anyway ? Not sure I have my screen names straight. walleyed
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tmc
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,447
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Post by tmc on Sept 16, 2020 19:24:36 GMT -5
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Post by joemarshditchrat on Sept 16, 2020 19:42:06 GMT -5
When the bitter old man mentions my name his post gets deleted 😀
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Post by walleyed on Sept 17, 2020 8:46:10 GMT -5
This site in my option just hit an all time low when someone cane state that Dave Miller is a possible thief. Don’t we have moderators on this site anymore I questioned it, I did not state it. Since he ran the raffle during the time period that it has been implied no monies were ever realized from, it does lead to the question. Because of NYSTA's information blackout, no dues paying member ever knows what's going on with the Association's finances. NYSTA leadership tried to keep the "Gambling Dale Gamba" financial fiasco a secret from the membership because of all the "other questions" that honest, full disclosure and transparency would lead to. It's not a wild stretch of the imagination to envision that rumors of an Executive Director's "Retirement Account" that have been floating around for years could be true. Is there any truth to this ? Nobody knows because NYSTA brass doesn't provide any info, and covers up financial impropriety resulting from the consequences of Lax or non-existent financial safeguards and the B.O.D's failure to perform their due diligence. See, This is just the type of rumor crap that an NYSTA information blackout to the dues paying membership generates. Until such time that NYSTA leadership agrees to provide to it's membership with Full Disclosure, Transparency, & Accountability then the NYSTA leadership will continue to reap what they sow. All in my opinion, of course. walleyed
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Post by trappermac on Sept 17, 2020 9:34:03 GMT -5
I don't see it happening Bob. We have the entire fox family guarding the hen house. The Guidneys tried taking the financial situation in a positive direction but ran into a wall when accountability was expected. When they pushed, they got chased out of town. Just in these few threads that have been active the past couple weeks I have been made aware of four good people who got chased away after trying to take the organization in a positive direction.
Nope, I think what we have is what it will remain. It's obvious that board members must have gotten a gag order regarding some of these threads. Ignore and maybe it goes away. Nope, until the king and his charges are dethroned we have what we have.
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Post by walleyed on Sept 17, 2020 9:47:29 GMT -5
I don't see it happening Bob. We have the entire fox family guarding the hen house. The Guidneys tried taking the financial situation in a positive direction but ran into a wall when accountability was expected. When they pushed, they got chased out of town. Just in these few threads that have been active the past couple weeks I have been made aware of four good people who got chased away after trying to take the organization in a positive direction. Nope, I think what we have is what it will remain. It's obvious that board members must have gotten a gag order regarding some of these threads. Ignore and maybe it goes away. Nope, until the king and his charges are dethroned we have what we have. Don't be so glum, Mac. We need grumpy old men like you to keep their feet to the fire. Looks like maybe NYSTA brass might be considering using the e-mail list to disseminate propaganda, Err, I mean, information to us Things are looking up now !!!! walleyed
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