Post by johnrockwood on Sept 7, 2020 15:02:32 GMT -5
Truth: I am personally so sick of the bitching and bickering on this website that I rarely ever come here anymore to read or post anything. I know many more who feel the same and no longer participate here; it's sad. It was brought to my attention some time ago that walleyed had launched a campaign that would support his position on the changes to water trapping season dates in the NZ. Bob did a great job of making his position known and I respect his position, along with all others who commented here, pro or con. Everyone who has a stake in the trapping game has the right and privilege to comment on proposed regulation changes and I sincerely hope everyone did. However, in reading the entire thread about the proposed water trapping season date changes, I have observed many inaccuracies in some of the statements made and accusations against the NYSTA. I went on to read some other threads that contained NYSTA related comments and I honestly was thoroughly disgusted. I almost removed myself from this site permanently without making any statement. However, that said, I want to keep this post on target and only discuss the issues surrounding the recent DEC proposed regulations changes to water trapping season dates as published in the NY State Register on June 3, 2020.
Fact: The NYSTA, when making decisions regarding controversial issues that affect trappers, has to support the majority of it's members while still promoting what is best for the resource. Sometimes those decisions are easy, sometimes they are not. Sometimes they are extremely divisive. After over 20 years of direct involvement with the NYSTA Board, in one capacity or another, I have learned that I, and we, can please most of the trappers most of the time but it is impossible to please all of the trappers all of the time.
Truth: Folks, I have broad shoulders and can accept personal attacks pretty well and will defend them with the truth. I have never used screen names as I have nothing to hide. I dislike a liar as much as a trap thief and many of you know how much I dislike those. I personally, face to face, honestly and truthfully answered a fellow trapper's questions regarding how the NYSTA came to know about and officially responded to the comment period regarding the DEC's proposed season date changes to some of the water trapping season dates in New York. Unfortunately, this fellow trapper either did not hear my answers correctly or changed them to fit his narrative and thereby outright lied about some of my responses. Again I'm disgusted and this situation just further increases my belief that trappers are their own worst enemy and that social media will be a big factor in their final demise.
Thus my need to present the truth and the facts as follows, along with a few comments of my own. I have endeavored to change the font color on my responses to walleyed's accusations/dissertation. I have addressed each of his statements.
QUOTE:
walleyed
#4 Newhouse
****
walleyed Avatar
Posts: 4,280
Sep 5, 2020 at 8:40am QuotelikePost OptionsPost by walleyed on Sep 5, 2020 at 8:40am
Walleyed spoke to several NYSTA B.O.D. officials at the Herkimer
Trapper's flea Market yesterday regarding
the DEC,Bureau of Wildlife proposal to change mink, muskrat,
and beaver season dates.
Most knew nothing about it, or said they missed the meetings
when the proposal was discussed.
Wow, I find that hard to believe. NYSTA is required to have a quorum at every meeting. I wonder how "most knew nothing about it or missed the meeting"?
walleyed then spoke briefly with JTI chairman rockwood
who seemed to know everything about the proposal.
That is the Truth: I did speak directly to you and answered each of your questions truthfully.
rockwood claimed the proposal was posted on the NYSTA site
long before the It was listed in the state register on June 3rd.
That is a Lie: I stated that I believed the proposal was posted on the NYSTA Face Book page and/or website before you saw it on Trapperman. Think about it, how could NYSTA put it on our website before it was even proposed on the State Register?
rockwood claimed "a DEC employee" erroneously/wrongly posted
the proposal in the NYS Register long before they had
intended to either by accident or error.
Wrong: I stated that someone at DEC put out an announcement that there was a comment period regarding the proposed changes, accidentally/erroneously, before the proposed changes were placed in the State Register for comment. For further information, this was on the "DEC Delivers" notification system that Dino referred to when he started the original thread. We, NYSTA, were respectfully made aware of that miscommunication on May 27 and was what I was trying to reference to you.
rockwood stated un-apologetically that NYSTA supported the
proposal in it's entirety, and added that (I) shouldn't be trapping
muskrat in October anyway.
That is an Outright Lie: Bob, come on, this one really stretches it. I told you outright that the NYSTA did indeed support the NZ provisions, but NOT ALL of the proposed changes to the SZ. Our positions were based on trapper input from all regions and NYSTA Director feedback from their "constituents". "Unapologetically" Am I supposed to apologize to you for supporting the position of the MAJORITY of the trapper members NYSTA represents? Give me a break! And I didn't say "you shouldn't be trapping muskrats in October anyway". What I said, if you were listening, is TRAPPERS shouldn't be trapping muskrats and mink in October when those same trappers are regularly advocating for seasons when our valuable furbearers are prime!
rockwood claimed a majority of trappers have been asking
for a common opener for many years.
That is the Truth: I did indeed state that MANY trappers have been asking for a common opener of water trapping seasons in New York for years. I believe there have even been comments to that effect on this forum in years past when more trappers were participating here. The reason I made that statement is because it is the absolute truth.
rockwood claimed a majority of trappers have been demanding
a later season opener for all species for years.
That is a Lie: Again, it appears you have misrepresented what I said. My statement to you was that many trappers have been advocating for seasons that better align opening and closing dates with fur primeness and quality for some species of furbearers. Furthermore, when the Department offers an opportunity to do so, how do we defend taking a position against everything we have been previously advocating for? I'll even add a bit of insight here to further support our NYSTA position beyond that of representing the majority. There are other species of furbearers for which new season dates could be proposed in the not too distant future. Some of those would also be something trappers have advocated for for a long, long time.
rockwood never mentioned wether the B.O.D had bothered to poll
the NYSTA membership regarding their preferences
or their opinions on this subject.
Fact: You never asked that question. However, if you read all of my above statements you will find the answer to that.
There you have it fellow trappers.
Sounds like a unilateral decision on the part
of the B.O.D. and/or the JTI chair without
consulting the membership regarding this
very important rule change.
That is a Lie: Again, please see above statements regarding outreach for input.
Not happy !!!
Fact: I am truly sorry you aren't happy, honest. However, I believe that if the proposal is adopted as written for the NZ that you will trap just as many muskrats during the new opening week as you did in the past opening week. Maybe even more. However, I do not believe that I deserve to be personally attacked over the NYSTA position which supported the majority nor do I believe that it is necessary to twist my words to fit your narrative of "the world is against walleyed" All in my humble opinion, of course.
walleyed
END QUOTE
Fellow trappers, I'm not going to get into a war of words on here. What time I have left on this earth is too valuable to me. I would hazard a guess that pretty much everyone on here knows how to contact me if they need to. My phone number, email address, personal address, etc. has been a matter of public record to the trapping community for decades. Admittedly, I can be hard to reach at times. I have a full time job, a trapping supply and fur business, and a family. I have aging parents that now need extensive time and care from myself and my siblings. I may not be able to answer the phone right away, or an email, but if you leave a message and I actually receive it, I WILL get back to you. There are some things that cannot be discussed in an email, and especially not on an open forum. Please do not ask me to do that. I am no longer the official spokesperson for the NYSTA. So there may be some things I cannot discuss but most of the time I can refer you to who can.
John Rockwood
Fact: The NYSTA, when making decisions regarding controversial issues that affect trappers, has to support the majority of it's members while still promoting what is best for the resource. Sometimes those decisions are easy, sometimes they are not. Sometimes they are extremely divisive. After over 20 years of direct involvement with the NYSTA Board, in one capacity or another, I have learned that I, and we, can please most of the trappers most of the time but it is impossible to please all of the trappers all of the time.
Truth: Folks, I have broad shoulders and can accept personal attacks pretty well and will defend them with the truth. I have never used screen names as I have nothing to hide. I dislike a liar as much as a trap thief and many of you know how much I dislike those. I personally, face to face, honestly and truthfully answered a fellow trapper's questions regarding how the NYSTA came to know about and officially responded to the comment period regarding the DEC's proposed season date changes to some of the water trapping season dates in New York. Unfortunately, this fellow trapper either did not hear my answers correctly or changed them to fit his narrative and thereby outright lied about some of my responses. Again I'm disgusted and this situation just further increases my belief that trappers are their own worst enemy and that social media will be a big factor in their final demise.
Thus my need to present the truth and the facts as follows, along with a few comments of my own. I have endeavored to change the font color on my responses to walleyed's accusations/dissertation. I have addressed each of his statements.
QUOTE:
walleyed
#4 Newhouse
****
walleyed Avatar
Posts: 4,280
Sep 5, 2020 at 8:40am QuotelikePost OptionsPost by walleyed on Sep 5, 2020 at 8:40am
Walleyed spoke to several NYSTA B.O.D. officials at the Herkimer
Trapper's flea Market yesterday regarding
the DEC,Bureau of Wildlife proposal to change mink, muskrat,
and beaver season dates.
Most knew nothing about it, or said they missed the meetings
when the proposal was discussed.
Wow, I find that hard to believe. NYSTA is required to have a quorum at every meeting. I wonder how "most knew nothing about it or missed the meeting"?
walleyed then spoke briefly with JTI chairman rockwood
who seemed to know everything about the proposal.
That is the Truth: I did speak directly to you and answered each of your questions truthfully.
rockwood claimed the proposal was posted on the NYSTA site
long before the It was listed in the state register on June 3rd.
That is a Lie: I stated that I believed the proposal was posted on the NYSTA Face Book page and/or website before you saw it on Trapperman. Think about it, how could NYSTA put it on our website before it was even proposed on the State Register?
rockwood claimed "a DEC employee" erroneously/wrongly posted
the proposal in the NYS Register long before they had
intended to either by accident or error.
Wrong: I stated that someone at DEC put out an announcement that there was a comment period regarding the proposed changes, accidentally/erroneously, before the proposed changes were placed in the State Register for comment. For further information, this was on the "DEC Delivers" notification system that Dino referred to when he started the original thread. We, NYSTA, were respectfully made aware of that miscommunication on May 27 and was what I was trying to reference to you.
rockwood stated un-apologetically that NYSTA supported the
proposal in it's entirety, and added that (I) shouldn't be trapping
muskrat in October anyway.
That is an Outright Lie: Bob, come on, this one really stretches it. I told you outright that the NYSTA did indeed support the NZ provisions, but NOT ALL of the proposed changes to the SZ. Our positions were based on trapper input from all regions and NYSTA Director feedback from their "constituents". "Unapologetically" Am I supposed to apologize to you for supporting the position of the MAJORITY of the trapper members NYSTA represents? Give me a break! And I didn't say "you shouldn't be trapping muskrats in October anyway". What I said, if you were listening, is TRAPPERS shouldn't be trapping muskrats and mink in October when those same trappers are regularly advocating for seasons when our valuable furbearers are prime!
rockwood claimed a majority of trappers have been asking
for a common opener for many years.
That is the Truth: I did indeed state that MANY trappers have been asking for a common opener of water trapping seasons in New York for years. I believe there have even been comments to that effect on this forum in years past when more trappers were participating here. The reason I made that statement is because it is the absolute truth.
rockwood claimed a majority of trappers have been demanding
a later season opener for all species for years.
That is a Lie: Again, it appears you have misrepresented what I said. My statement to you was that many trappers have been advocating for seasons that better align opening and closing dates with fur primeness and quality for some species of furbearers. Furthermore, when the Department offers an opportunity to do so, how do we defend taking a position against everything we have been previously advocating for? I'll even add a bit of insight here to further support our NYSTA position beyond that of representing the majority. There are other species of furbearers for which new season dates could be proposed in the not too distant future. Some of those would also be something trappers have advocated for for a long, long time.
rockwood never mentioned wether the B.O.D had bothered to poll
the NYSTA membership regarding their preferences
or their opinions on this subject.
Fact: You never asked that question. However, if you read all of my above statements you will find the answer to that.
There you have it fellow trappers.
Sounds like a unilateral decision on the part
of the B.O.D. and/or the JTI chair without
consulting the membership regarding this
very important rule change.
That is a Lie: Again, please see above statements regarding outreach for input.
Not happy !!!
Fact: I am truly sorry you aren't happy, honest. However, I believe that if the proposal is adopted as written for the NZ that you will trap just as many muskrats during the new opening week as you did in the past opening week. Maybe even more. However, I do not believe that I deserve to be personally attacked over the NYSTA position which supported the majority nor do I believe that it is necessary to twist my words to fit your narrative of "the world is against walleyed" All in my humble opinion, of course.
walleyed
END QUOTE
Fellow trappers, I'm not going to get into a war of words on here. What time I have left on this earth is too valuable to me. I would hazard a guess that pretty much everyone on here knows how to contact me if they need to. My phone number, email address, personal address, etc. has been a matter of public record to the trapping community for decades. Admittedly, I can be hard to reach at times. I have a full time job, a trapping supply and fur business, and a family. I have aging parents that now need extensive time and care from myself and my siblings. I may not be able to answer the phone right away, or an email, but if you leave a message and I actually receive it, I WILL get back to you. There are some things that cannot be discussed in an email, and especially not on an open forum. Please do not ask me to do that. I am no longer the official spokesperson for the NYSTA. So there may be some things I cannot discuss but most of the time I can refer you to who can.
John Rockwood