austin
test results are back... I am joerat's daddy
Posts: 483
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Post by austin on Jul 16, 2020 10:53:52 GMT -5
Many times in the past I've been vocal about my displeasure with various NYS trapping season dates and/or regulations. It's also fair that I commend the decision makers for what they've granted us this season...
Southern Zone
Water season opener moved from 11/25 traditional to 11/10: this was badly needed for a long time now. Those two weeks are often the difference between a week or two of completely open water to work in, or none at all. As was the case last season (2019/20) and many prior. Love it!
Now all we need are open seasons for fisher and otter, ability to set muskrat traps at/on houses (constructions) and repeat-catch (colony style) trap legalization, statewide
Northern Zone Water season opener adjusted from 10/25 traditional to 11/01: also a great move. Many benefits to this, including... uniform opener for all water animals, including beaver & otter an extra week for slate-blue fur to prime an extra week for land trapping focus
don't know if there are any other changes I'm not aware of, but kudos to the men who are actively working behind the scenes for positive change. We see you... and we approve. Thank you!
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Post by trappermac on Jul 16, 2020 12:59:38 GMT -5
You're in the southern zone Austin, how do the changes in the northern zone effect you positively? I'm in the southern zone, and yeah, love the change we got here. But if I was in the northern zone LOSING something cannot positively effect anyone. Can't believe a trapper would wish that upon another trapper and then openly commend the lawmakers. Even if stating it only to piss another trapper off.
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Post by walleyed on Jul 16, 2020 13:14:15 GMT -5
You're in the southern zone Austin, how do the changes in the northern zone effect you positively? I'm in the southern zone, and yeah, love the change we got here. But if I was in the northern zone LOSING something cannot positively effect anyone. Can't believe a trapper would wish that upon another trapper and then openly commend the lawmakers. Even if stating it only to piss another trapper off. Don't feed the troll, Mac. IF you ignore it, It will go away. It should have have left for Nebraska, or South Dakota,or where ever it said it was going to leave NYS for. LMAO Probably still tying up loose ends at "UNITED TRAPPERS" LMAO Just more pipe dreams and hot air. w
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austin
test results are back... I am joerat's daddy
Posts: 483
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Post by austin on Jul 16, 2020 13:37:32 GMT -5
You're in the southern zone Austin, how do the changes in the northern zone effect you positively? I'm in the southern zone, and yeah, love the change we got here. But if I was in the northern zone LOSING something cannot positively effect anyone. Can't believe a trapper would wish that upon another trapper and then openly commend the lawmakers. Even if stating it only to piss another trapper off. I set more traps and caught more fur in the northern zone last season than southern zone by far. You followed the threads here, you saw the pics, you commented. Am I right or right again?
This season ahead with the epic drought we've experienced so far, I expect most if not all of my trapping to be in the water from Port Ontario northward again.
How many guys here complain about too-early seasons for furbearers in NYS where animals (fisher, etc) are blue haired and unprime? With wild fur markets demand and prices at historical lows, it only makes sense to harvest wild fur resources with utmost quality possible. If someone was shooting for all-out longline blitz catch numbers I can see where they'd be irked. But most trappers are just hobbyist han & eggers these days. Some openly profess they want to limit their catch sizes for sake of leisurely convenience. How could that possibly impact part-time hobbyists?
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Post by trappermac on Jul 16, 2020 16:49:57 GMT -5
You're in the southern zone Austin, how do the changes in the northern zone effect you positively? I'm in the southern zone, and yeah, love the change we got here. But if I was in the northern zone LOSING something cannot positively effect anyone. Can't believe a trapper would wish that upon another trapper and then openly commend the lawmakers. Even if stating it only to piss another trapper off. I set more traps and caught more fur in the northern zone last season than southern zone by far. You followed the threads here, you saw the pics, you commented. Am I right or right again? This season ahead with the epic drought we've experienced so far, I expect most if not all of my trapping to be in the water from Port Ontario northward again. How many guys here complain about too-early seasons for furbearers in NYS where animals (fisher, etc) are blue haired and unprime? With wild fur markets demand and prices at historical lows, it only makes sense to harvest wild fur resources with utmost quality possible. If someone was shooting for all-out longline blitz catch numbers I can see where they'd be irked. But most trappers are just hobbyist han & eggers these days. Some openly profess they want to limit their catch sizes for sake of leisurely convenience. How could that possibly impact part-time hobbyists?
I saw the threads Austin, you trapped spring beaver up there. In the fall you were where you always are, trapping roadside ditches and telling us how much better deer hunting is, right in your hometown. Yeah, that later northern zone start is going to have a big impact on you. If you want to cite your threads and throw "was I right or right" at me, you did post in feb that you are a year or less away from being in northwest Iowa...so make sure you call out that one as well in 7 months or less.
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austin
test results are back... I am joerat's daddy
Posts: 483
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Post by austin on Jul 16, 2020 17:18:11 GMT -5
I saw the threads Austin, you trapped spring beaver up there. In the fall you were where you always are, trapping roadside ditches and telling us how much better deer hunting is, right in your hometown. Yeah, that later northern zone start is going to have a big impact on you. If you want to cite your threads and throw "was I right or right" at me, you did post in feb that you are a year or less away from being in northwest Iowa...so make sure you call out that one as well in 7 months or less. As noted before, I fully intend to establish legal residency somewhere out west. I'll also keep my homestead here and most likely add a camp up north near the Chaumont area too. I'll play in both states, several states actually.
If you count the days spent trapping freeze-thaw rats here versus the days spent trapping beaver & otter up north, more actual trapline days were spent up there. This year the skew will pry be even higher north. But that's all beside the point. NYSTA leaders take all sorts of flack, including too much from this forum here. Trapping season decisions were made that some people prefer and others may not. It is a personal opinion subject, and my opinion was explained with bullet points.
Consider this fact... before with split dates for water fur, guys trapping different flows could only target rats there first week. Which means they either combed the same water twice for all, or passed up beaver & otter in those spots. Now they can catch everything together in one pass. Efficiency. For me personally that's a plus. For others, maybe not. But overall the NYSTA team & DEC decision makers have my approval overall. Whether I trap both zones, either or neither. It's not a selfish "me" thing.
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Post by trappermac on Jul 16, 2020 18:31:42 GMT -5
Consider this fact... before with split dates for water fur, guys trapping different flows could only target rats there first week. Which means they either combed the same water twice for all, or passed up beaver & otter in those spots. Now they can catch everything together in one pass. Efficiency. For me personally that's a plus. For others, maybe not. But overall the NYSTA team & DEC decision makers have my approval overall. Whether I trap both zones, either or neither. It's not a selfish "me" thing.
Funny, never heard walleyed complain about that. In fact seemed to suit him fine, hit rats hard first week, mentally mark beaver sets while doing that, haul in some 330's the following week knowing right where they'll go. Sounds like a win win. Glad to see that go away for those northern guys....
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austin
test results are back... I am joerat's daddy
Posts: 483
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Post by austin on Jul 16, 2020 18:59:08 GMT -5
mac, it's a personal preference thing. What Bobby prefers, others don't. He pry voiced his opinions somewhere, I voiced mine. Kudos to the change makers for making some sort of progress overall. Time to work on fisher and otter statewide next But most of all, you guys miss me when I'm not here. Place is a fricken morgue... nobody posts for days on end, weeks sometimes. I'm pretty busy with life these days but I'll try to stop by more often, liven things up for y'all
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Post by trappermac on Jul 16, 2020 19:07:01 GMT -5
Lol. I know your post is trolling, bob is correct. I knew that, but decided its been quiet. But yeah, always nice to engage Austin in some lively bickering. You have a way about you that....well, you have a way about you.
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austin
test results are back... I am joerat's daddy
Posts: 483
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Post by austin on Jul 16, 2020 19:28:26 GMT -5
Lol. I know your post is trolling, bob is correct. I knew that, but decided its been quiet. But yeah, always nice to engage Austin in some lively bickering. You have a way about you that....well, you have a way about you. Bill volunteered my for the NYSTA dunk tank in Herkimer this year. Hopefully there will be a successful convention and if so, I look forward to seeing all my friends there. Now just because we're all friends doesn't mean everyone should hesitate to try and soak my a** repeatedly in the tank. I really don't want you guys taking it easy on me, deliberately missing the bullseye trigger with those balls. It's a worthy cause... I promise we'll still be good of friends as ever if y'all manage to trip the dunk-tank trigger once or twice.
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paintedpaw
Retired NYSDEC Lake George Ranger
Posts: 691
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Post by paintedpaw on Jul 17, 2020 9:14:27 GMT -5
One can NEVER satisfy all of the trappers as to season dates. Although I don't agree with Austin and Walleyed on everything I do agree with Austin's comment that it only makes sense to harvest furbearers when they are fully prime. I know some trappers could care less about fur quality. Then there are the fair weather trappers that don't want to deal with frozen ground, snow, or ice. Follow that with the serious trappers that want only quality fur. I consider myself in the last category. Quality, not quantity. Having dealt with DEC for years via the JTI I have a different view of them. There are some truly dedicated professionals among them and there are also some very arrogant political hacks that think they know it all. Nothing would please them more than to have all trapping seasons run together.Quality of a renewable resource is frequently forgotten in order to provide the public unprimed "trophies". The October southern zone fisher season is a prime example.What genius dreamed that up? My pet peeve for a long time has been the northern zone fisher season.DEC shortened that season,but ON THE WRONG END ! Some of these biologists are using their jobs to get advanced degrees, but all are under Cuomo's thumb and they have to protect their arses. Some are dedicated persons, others wouldn't know a moose from a monarch butterfly. Not DEC, but case in point of brain dead was that bright idea of lynx reintroduction into the high peaks where there was no feed.Others would like to reintroduce wolves, yet after decades they still can't get their act together as to reopening a closed otter season. I, for one, blame DEC with a huge failure in northern zone fisher management. They dropped the ball, preferring to run around the country radio collaring pine marten, getting an advanced degree, and a promotion in the process. All on a species that is increasing it's population, not decreasing. Enough of my soap box.
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Post by walleyed on Jul 17, 2020 19:27:44 GMT -5
One can NEVER satisfy all of the trappers as to season dates. I do agree that it only makes sense to harvest furbearers when they are fully prime. I know some trappers could care less about fur quality. Then there are the fair weather trappers that don't want to deal with frozen ground, snow, or ice. Follow that with the serious trappers that want only quality fur. I consider myself in the last category. Quality, not quantity. That's all well and fine AL, when one is dealing with static, stable water levels like those found on Adirondack water bodies. Trapping through or under the ice with Lake effect snow bands common in my area and dealing with Lake Storms surges (seiche) is a lot different on my trap line than yours Try that ice trapping on The Eastern Lake Ontario coastal marshes, and you'd soon be whistling a different tune. There's a reason there are NO through-the-ice muskrat trappers plying their trades on our Eastern Basin Coastal marshes. It's because it is unproductive, unsustainable, and dangerous. Unless you've tried it, you've got no idea. We have a very narrow window most years to harvest the Fall's surplus rat population before the bad weather shuts us down. Then we don't get another crack at them until breakup in the spring. If we don't take them in the fall, mother nature harvests them over the winter. Never saw a fur buyer pay more for spring rats than they did for fall ones. They may talk a good game but by spring buyers are averaging down their collections and paying less than they do for the fall catches. Rat trappers in 7A and 6G have to harvest their fall rats early before bad weather, that's why we have had a traditional early start to our Rat season for a generation. It'd been that way since the 1960's. Why do you think Oswego County is the ONLY southern zone county with an October 25th start date ? It's because Past bureau of wildlife managers had enough sense to know you needed to use or lose the fall surplus rat population before mother nature eliminated it because you can't stockpile wildlife until they are perfectly prime. I'm all for taking as much perfectly prime rat fur as possible, but not at the expense of losing 25% to 50% of my fall catch to accomplish it. For me it's about opportunity. To lose half of my trapping opportunity is not a good deal for me. Another issue is I trap exclusively from a boat or canoe and use it to lay out somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 to 150 rat traps on opening day. I trap from a vessel because my physical handicaps and limitations dictate that I do so. Once the heavy snow and Ice up comes, I'm out of business until spring break up. Just maybe imagine walking in the other trapper's moccasins before judging him by when he chooses to start trapping rats. w
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Post by brandonh on Jul 17, 2020 21:35:04 GMT -5
I am never in favor of regulation changes that decrease opportunity for trappers. If you dont want to catch “blue/flat” fur, dont set traps on opening day.. its that simple
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Post by trappermac on Jul 18, 2020 7:32:23 GMT -5
I know some trappers could care less about fur quality. Then there are the fair weather trappers that don't want to deal with frozen ground, snow, or ice. Follow that with the serious trappers that want only quality fur. I consider myself in the last category. Quality, not quantity. . I don't think its fair to imply that just because a trapper starts when the season opens, for whatever reasons, that he/she is not a serious trapper. You are somehow more serious a trapper because you wait? I live in the southern tier snowbelt, I know what happens if I wait. Been here my entire life, so you learn what to expect and even though you may wish to wait you know your narrow window is closing. Bob is correct, spend a few seasons around the state before you judge the actions and reasonings of others in regards to why they start when they do. What I don't understand is you complain over the things that have been taken away over the years, the coni changes, the otter seasons, etc. But now you support something taken away from trappers that has no direct effect on you?
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paintedpaw
Retired NYSDEC Lake George Ranger
Posts: 691
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Post by paintedpaw on Jul 18, 2020 9:10:05 GMT -5
Gentlemen, I stand by my opinions, however it is not up to me to judge conditions in other parts of the state and your seasons. Let me be very clear, I do not support the shortening of Walleye's muskrat season! I did not mean to give the wrong impression. A very wise trapper friend once told me;"Don't ever give up a season because you will NEVER get it back". How very true.
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austin
test results are back... I am joerat's daddy
Posts: 483
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Post by austin on Jul 18, 2020 12:34:38 GMT -5
Last season the first week from 10/25 thru 11/01 saw flooding, heavy rains, high winds and sieche events along the eastern basin. From roughly Nv 1st on the weather moderated and smoothed out for a couple of weeks until early freezes began setting in statewide, down south here too. Weather events are a crapshoot, many times here in the southern zone we're frozen up 11/25 opener only to have open water and warm stretches in Dec - Jan.
I know for a fact that men used to ice trap protected bays from Port Ontario to Clayton, to Alex, to Black Lake. But today there simply aren't enough dense muskrat populations to make that worthwhile. It's a long ways between one rat house to the next all thru that region. About the only two places in all of NYS that make sense for thru-ice trapping are the Iroquois complex and Montezuma. I haven't seen anywhere near dense enough muskrat populations to support serious ice trapping anywhere else.
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paintedpaw
Retired NYSDEC Lake George Ranger
Posts: 691
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Post by paintedpaw on Jul 18, 2020 20:02:20 GMT -5
I cut my teeth on muskrats in salt water tidal marshes. No serious ice problems, but tides to contend with, no conibears or stop loss back then.When I moved to the Adirondacks we used to rent marshes along Lake Champlain. You could even legally shoot the rats, but I never did. I don't think we over trapped the rats, but they have all but disappeared. In my area there are not enough rats to put in a tea cup. I have always questioned the Nov.25 southern tier water season and the stupidity of the October fisher season, however those seasons do not affect me and really are not my business.Years ago I published a trapper survey for NYSTA and you would be amazed at the variety of answers about the same species in the same region. That is what I meant that you can never satisfy every trapper, whatever their reasoning. I will never advocate a shorter trapping season, but season dates in some areas do need change. That's not for me to decide for a trapper outside my area, such as southern tier or tug hill. Remember the old north/ south line along Rt.29 before the WMU's. How many regs date back to those days? I too lost ground with a shorter northern zone fisher season, and I'm mad as Hell at the DEC Manager that brought that about. Weather also directly affects my trapping.Some years I deal with 4' of snow and 2 feet of ice to trap my beaver.I disagree with my season, however I would never advocate a shorter season.In my case I just wait until the beaver are prime. My choice alone, others start opening day, How many set for fisher on opening day, then complain about the price they get at the sale? Again, it is their choice. I hope that I've explained myself better.Everyone has different reasons for the choices they make, and I'm not here to judge those reasons.
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Post by greggwny on Jul 29, 2020 4:31:48 GMT -5
Still waiting for someone to figure out that cable restraints would be a safe and effective way to trap K9's in winter after the late deer season ends. Last years freeze/thaw/snow/rain was a tough one to trap coyotes. I took the PA CR Certification course and was very tempted to get a PA licence and drive the 5 miles to the PA border.
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austin
test results are back... I am joerat's daddy
Posts: 483
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Post by austin on Jul 29, 2020 9:30:31 GMT -5
Still waiting for someone to figure out that cable restraints would be a safe and effective way to trap K9's in winter after the late deer season ends. Last years freeze/thaw/snow/rain was a tough one to trap coyotes. I took the PA CR Certification course and was very tempted to get a PA licence and drive the 5 miles to the PA border. that, and open otter seasons in the southern zone where EVERY body of water is fully populated with otter. Habitat is now at full carrying capacity, there will never be more otters across the entire southern tier than there are right now. Same story, another year later.
fisher sightings and encounters are likewise off the hook across western NY. Same story... fisher population is at full carrying capacity everywhere. People are taking pics of live fisher sightings in Buffalo suburbs, downtown Ithaca, etc. Everywhere.
for the record I'm agnostic the northern-zone muskrat & mink opener. Oct 25th, Nov 1st, 3rd Sat in October, etc is all fine by me. Weather is a total crap shoot, many times the last week in October is storm-filled and east shore marshes are blown out. As they were last season, only to settle down and offer first two full weeks of open water opportunity in November.
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