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Post by walleyed on Jul 27, 2020 16:53:41 GMT -5
Why hasn't anyone answered Walleye on the season change question? Simple question, childish answer. Maybe he's right, we got a back room old mans club making decisons behind closed doors. Decide on a direction for NYSTA, make it known, show me some leadership vs tight lips, and I'll be all in. There's still time for NYSTA to reveal how they felt about NYS DEC, Bureau of Wildlife taking away a week's worth of Northern Zone Muskrat season "So they could better align the water trapping seasons and avoid confusion among trappers about season openers". What a load of bull-chit. NYSTA could still come out with a position on the "proposal" and go to bat for us Northern Zone muskrat guys and save us from losing out on a week's worth of trapping opportunity and 50% of my fall muskrat catch. That's what NYSTA is for, right ? To protect NY trappers from trapping regulations that hurt trappers. To ensure that any regulations adopted are based on actual science, and sound wildlife management practices, not for the convenience of Encon police or Furbearer Biologists who have other motives that are left unspoken. I never heard from a County rep on this proposal, nor on the website, nor from a news letter, nor from the JTI chair, or from the board of directors many of whom were present at the fur sales this spring, or in person while I was selling my spring rat catch. Not a peep. Wonder why that was ? maybe because they didn't want me to know because I might make noise. Better to keep it a secret. It got slipped by under the rug, without ANY warning to membership. Kudos to Jim Patrician for bringing it to our attention. I'd like to request that the board of Directors, my county rep, and The JTI chair come out against this proposal in the NYS Register by commenting on my behalf before the close of comments on August 3rd, 2020. Actually, I demand it, as I am entitled to representation as a dues paying member who has volunteered plenty of his time with NYSTA until Gamba ran off with our funds. It's time for a payback from NYSTA for all my volunteer time, and membership dues payed, to represent me in this manner. walleyed
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Post by joemarshditchrat on Jul 27, 2020 17:09:27 GMT -5
I don't think the NYSTA gives a frogs fat A$$ about you Bob.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:05:38 GMT -5
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Post by bobsamuelson on Jul 27, 2020 18:05:38 GMT -5
The new season dates were the result of the surveys that are sent out randomly each year! The questions are leading but that’s where the determination for the new dates came from. It’s the same as the opening of the new fisher seasons. Hobby trappers like opportunity regardless of quality of fur, yet complain about low prices when it comes time to sell.
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Post by walleyed on Jul 27, 2020 18:38:22 GMT -5
The new season dates were the result of the surveys that are sent out randomly each year! The questions are leading but that’s where the determination for the new dates came from. It’s the same as the opening of the new fisher seasons. Hobby trappers like opportunity regardless of quality of fur, yet complain about low prices when it comes time to sell. Thanks Bob for your answer. Another question ? When did NYSTA, The Board of Directors, and the JTI Chair 1st become aware of this rule change ? For how long did they know about it ? Why did NYSTA not inform the membership so we could provide our input ? w
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Hi guys!
Jul 27, 2020 19:34:36 GMT -5
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Post by trappermac on Jul 27, 2020 19:34:36 GMT -5
The new season dates were the result of the surveys that are sent out randomly each year! The questions are leading but that’s where the determination for the new dates came from. It’s the same as the opening of the new fisher seasons. Hobby trappers like opportunity regardless of quality of fur, yet complain about low prices when it comes time to sell. Makes no sense, if opportunity was the desire, why would they want a later season?
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Post by walleyed on Jul 27, 2020 20:34:34 GMT -5
trappers like opportunity regardless of quality of fur, yet complain about low prices when it comes time to sell. In my case, opportunity means I get to trap Fall surplus rats before bad weather shuts me down versus not being able to harvest few if any, due to bad weather when I lose that weeks opportunity from October 25th to November 1st. Those fall rats are decimated by fatal Lake Seiche Ice conditions and are not available for harvest in the spring because winter mortality removes them. I receive the lowest prices for my spring rats each year, and always get better prices for my fall caught rats. You'd have to ask the NYS In-country furbuyers why that is ? This makes the Low prices for fall-higher prices for winter & spring argument a pile of horse-chit from my perspective. I know for sure I won't be payed anything for my Fall rats if the season is not open, or the weather makes it impossible for me to catch them. w
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Post by milkie62 on Jul 27, 2020 23:55:23 GMT -5
When all this Gamba stuff was going on I was just a dues paying member and knew nothing about what was going on. But I will be honest and say that as I was paying my dues at the end of his tenure I did notice that his buddy president at the time was looking over his shoulder acting like it was Gamba's first rodeo making sure he was doing everything right. I knew the way he was acting that something was up for some reason but had no clue that money was being taken from the coffers at that time. I am a straight shooter and feel that president knew what was going on. But I am not part of any old man back room club regardless of my gray/white hair.
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austin
test results are back... I am joerat's daddy
Posts: 483
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Post by austin on Jul 28, 2020 7:08:57 GMT -5
"Those fall rats are decimated by fatal Lake Seiche Ice conditions and are not available for harvest in the spring because winter mortality removes them."
that's odd... scroll down a few threads and you'll find just the opposite of this observation, Bobby. In March I noted where a traps-laden canoe float into the Lakeview marsh showed scant few live rat signs amidst several dead floaters. You repeatedly said there were hoards and hoards of live muskrats assaulting your floats and toilet sets in there. Now you flip sides 180-degrees and support my observations from this spring?
If I didn't know better, I'd almost think you were just humorously trolling me back then. But I would never do that to you... lest the mods here call me out on my tit for your tat lol
**
On a serious note, I've said for the past several years that trapper (and quite frankly all sportsmen) organizations that rely on donations, live meetings and volunteer employees are fast going extinct. Modern generations have absolutely zero interest in any of that. We are at most, several year's max from seeing the end of all trapping organizations from states to national levels. Once the current crop of 50s to 70s year old active (not passive) members age out, it's over. Now we don't know if some type of alternative organizing efforts will replace the outdated mode. If so, it will be something online based, remote meetings using zoom or other virtual group technology. Paid leadership positions and perhaps one yearly in-person gathering. Trappers United virtually, in today's modern era fashion.
Like it or not, that's the reality of progression. What we have with NYSTA right now is as good as it's ever going to get in the current mode. So enjoy what you currently have. Anyone who thinks a new generation of volunteers are going to step in, donate time and their own money out of pocket to take over is deluded.
Like it or not, for better or worse, that's the facts Jack.
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Zagman
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,186
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Post by Zagman on Jul 28, 2020 8:35:10 GMT -5
Couple things.... When I was on the Waterfowl Task force a billion years ago, it was clear to me that NY is a big state, and every corner had little nuances that affected the guys that lived there, their thoughts on seasons, openers, last days, etc. Also, it was clear to me that it was IMPOSSIBLE to make everyone happy. Hell, the guys on the North side of Oneida Lake had different opinions that the guys on the South side of said lake! LOL One thing they DID all agree on was SATURDAY openers......first season and later season reopening....... I'll get back to that.... I used to be very vocal about my dismay at the Oct 25th opening for coyotes and the continued INCREASE in deer gun season, and how it shortened my opportunity to trap coyotes in numbers. I also voiced my opinion on hard-date opening (Oct 25) vs. a floating-Saturday opener (third Saturday in Oct) and how THAT decreased my opportunity forcing me to take vacation to start vs. starting on a Saturday. Even though I was being selfish (in hindsight only LOL!) I tried to play the "kids" angle......"We all talk about wanting to get more recruitment in trapping, yet we DON'T open on a Saturday for a kid to be off of school to do it? " Didn't work. I really found out that I was pretty much the only one that wanted this.....and while many agreed with me in concept, it wasn't as big of a deal to them as it was for me... Some guys said: "I can't support that.....I need to plan my vacation a year out with my company" I'm like: "Huh? " Look at the calendar for next year.....pick the third Saturday (perhaps its Oct 22nd??) and go from there. I pointed out that our DEER season in NY certainly has more people planning vacation around it than trappers planning theirs, and THEY can figure out the third Saturday in November some how annually! I even pointed out the 8 billion worldwide Catholics that somehow work with different dates annually for Lent, Good Friday, and Easter, and THAT involves Christ rising from the DEAD! LOL In the end, my argument was sound, but it really didn't seem to matter to others. Alas, Bob, I think you muskrat deal is similar to my coyote deal, and from a macro scale would be viewed as a micro-issue..... I want to be clear: The people that did NOT jump on my bandwagon were the trappers of NY, NOT the NYSTA. I had hoped to get a rally cry going before I could take it to the next level. I just didn't have the support. Now, I recognize the difference between having something and THEN having it removed vs. MY angle of trying to change something that apparently didn't need changed.....I am merely juxtaposing my micro situation with Bob's.... That said, NO ONE has ever given me a good reason for the LACK of a Saturday opener annually for trapping....(Edit: this does NOT mean I want it to open the FIRST Saturday in Novmber! LOL) The "I have to plan my vacation" ain't cuttin' it! Oh, and NO ONE can explain to me why coyote hunters have a month or more on the beginning or end of season over trappers. Why the heck isn't it the same? Not saying I want trapping to start Oct 1st.....or end March 31st. Just saying they should be the same. Many states DON'T regulate coyotes.....no closed season. It might as well happen here because every turkey hunter but me shoots every coyote they see in the spring, farmers shoot them in Sept from the tractor when starting to chop corn, etc. In the end, Oct 22nd coyotes would be just as good as Oct 25th coyotes.....just like Bob's rats. MZ
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Post by walleyed on Jul 28, 2020 9:10:54 GMT -5
"Those fall rats are decimated by fatal Lake Seiche Ice conditions and are not available for harvest in the spring because winter mortality removes them." that's odd... scroll down a few threads and you'll find just the opposite of this observation, Bobby. In March I noted where a traps-laden canoe float into the Lakeview marsh showed scant few live rat signs amidst several dead floaters. You repeatedly said there were hoards and hoards of live muskrats assaulting your floats and toilet sets in there. Now you flip sides 180-degrees and support my observations from this spring? If I didn't know better, I'd almost think you were just humorously trolling me back then. But I would never do that to you... lest the mods here call me out on my tit for your tat lol ** It's apparent that the writer of the above load of bull-chit and bad gas is absolutely and totally clueless as to the Eastern Lake Ontario Muskrat population migration dynamic at play in our coastal marshes. 80% of the spring muskrat marsh population migrates downstream from the network of tributary rivers, streams, brooks, and spring creeks of Tug Hill to the coastal lake shore marshes. Rats are migrating to the top quality brood-stock habitat that our coastal marshes provide to raise their young. Spending a couple of days a year stumbling around our lake shore marshes apparently makes this carpet bagging, trap line jumping, poseur an expert in it's own mind on the ins and outs of our local muskrat marshes remotely from a three hour drive away. walleyed has only been trapping the Eastern Lake Ontario marshes for a mere 40 years so I don't yet know what's happening in my own local marshes. Better to rely on some sputtering gas bag spouting horse manure to tell you the way it is here from 10 counties away. LOL Better keep a tight, firm hold on your wallet, fellow trappers. Sounds like baldy might be getting ready to resurrect his bamboozling, flim-flamming "United Trappers" scam to fleece more unsuspecting trappers out of their hard earned cash. LMAO All in my own opinion, of course. w
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austin
test results are back... I am joerat's daddy
Posts: 483
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Post by austin on Jul 28, 2020 14:49:34 GMT -5
Those fall rats are decimated by fatal Lake Seiche Ice conditions and are not available for harvest in the spring because winter mortality removes them. w brother walrus... it don't matter if those rats were born in Port Ontario, Lakeview, Sandy Creek, points northward or Lake Erie and they survived the Niagara Falls plunge. Either they exist to be trapped in the springtime as you said before, or they are decimated midwinter as you say now.
either you have muskrats on location from who-the-he(ck)-cares-where in the spring season, or you do not. Pick one story and stick with that.
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austin
test results are back... I am joerat's daddy
Posts: 483
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Post by austin on Jul 28, 2020 14:53:08 GMT -5
Sounds like baldy might be getting ready to resurrect his bamboozling, flim-flamming "United Trappers" scam to fleece more unsuspecting trappers out of their hard earned cash. LMAO All in my own opinion, of course. w I have zero, no... wait a minute... less than zero interest in participation with ANY group or organization ever again. What I'm a lifetime member of, is it.
On the other hand, NYSTA, NTA, etc will in the visible future transform to remote, virtual meetings and paid officer positions or they will surely cease to exist. There is no third option.
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Post by walleyed on Jul 28, 2020 17:16:48 GMT -5
Better a walrus than a Thief !!!! You and Gambling Gamba should hook up and get a room !!! All in my opinion, of course. LOL w
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Hi guys!
Jul 28, 2020 17:20:22 GMT -5
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Post by trappermac on Jul 28, 2020 17:20:22 GMT -5
When all this Gamba stuff was going on I was just a dues paying member and knew nothing about what was going on. But I will be honest and say that as I was paying my dues at the end of his tenure I did notice that his buddy president at the time was looking over his shoulder acting like it was Gamba's first rodeo making sure he was doing everything right. I knew the way he was acting that something was up for some reason but had no clue that money was being taken from the coffers at that time. I am a straight shooter and feel that president knew what was going on. But I am not part of any old man back room club regardless of my gray/white hair. Appreciate your honesty and for being open about the situation when you got in there, I've heard the same and it wasn't just the president and will leave it at that.
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Post by joemarshditchrat on Jul 28, 2020 17:29:45 GMT -5
I was on a NY Facebook group and I asked where my money went...I was soon banned and a person that got me banned tried to portray me as an "anti". Right after that I got a few messages from people and I figured there was more than a few who were guilty. I still don't see why the matter hasn't been resolved and it is the main reason why I have not joined although I do show up to the convention to support them.
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Hi guys!
Jul 28, 2020 17:33:32 GMT -5
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Post by trappermac on Jul 28, 2020 17:33:32 GMT -5
Sounds like baldy might be getting ready to resurrect his bamboozling, flim-flamming "United Trappers" scam to fleece more unsuspecting trappers out of their hard earned cash. LMAO All in my own opinion, of course. w I have zero, no... wait a minute... less than zero interest in participation with ANY group or organization ever again. What I'm a lifetime member of, is it. On the other hand, NYSTA, NTA, etc will in the visible future transform to remote, virtual meetings and paid officer positions or they will surely cease to exist. There is no third option.
Look no farther than the PA trappers association to see that the old model can still work if you have strong leaders, strong board, great relationship with the PA game commision, district leaders who are held accountable to report monthly, strong web presence, FB presence, good members, etc. Oldest trappers org in the country who had no model to go by. Shows that people of integrity and all being on the same page can be a success with time tested methods.
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Hi guys!
Jul 28, 2020 18:02:20 GMT -5
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Post by trappermac on Jul 28, 2020 18:02:20 GMT -5
Couple things.... That said, NO ONE has ever given me a good reason for the LACK of a Saturday opener annually for trapping....(Edit: this does NOT mean I want it to open the FIRST Saturday in Novmber! LOL) In the end, Oct 22nd coyotes would be just as good as Oct 25th coyotes.....just like Bob's rats. MZ I have no good reason for not moving the opener to the third Saturday. But I am most likely guilty of not signing on for it back when you first started talking in support of it. It really didn't matter to me, I also enjoy bowhunting and like a couple weekends being able to enjoy that prior to putting out a line. I know the season now starts the 1st, but really the bow season doesn't get interesting until later in the season, I don't even bother until mid month. Another reason is my work schedule was flexible, getting out there when the competition was waiting for the weekend was an advantage. I also didn't have to contend with goose hunters on the day I was setting the line up, yeah they'd be there the Saturday after but I'm just doing a drive thru by that point. So we all had selfish motivations is all that says, perhaps others found themselves in the same situation as me. For me, Bob's situation is different, with an established season for years that he scheduled his trapline around, successfully, and now stands to lose an entire week. And I know you said you also perceive the difference there. On that last paragraph, look ahead at 2026 or 2027, is a canine, coon, cat or fisher as prime on the 16th as it is on the 25th? Yeah, 22nd to 25th may be minimal, but where is the cutoff?
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Post by walleyed on Jul 28, 2020 18:13:15 GMT -5
Things started going to heck with NYSTA when we were told "we could no longer afford the news letter, (Because "Gambling Gamba" had stolen all the money) and we're going to replace it with a modern website".
As a member, I was never able to log on to the site, and from what I heard, there was never any up to date news on it to begin with.
Never any information forth coming about anything, Just:
"If you want to know what's going on, then come to a B.O.D. meeting and find out"
I've been a member for a long time, but this potential loss of a week's muskrat trapping opportunity has me questioning If I'll ever give NYSTA another dime, If I find out B.O.D. were complicit in this fiasco without informing the Rank-In-File membership of their tacit approval of this betrayal of trust.
w
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Jul 29, 2020 20:10:26 GMT -5
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Post by bobsamuelson on Jul 29, 2020 20:10:26 GMT -5
Walleyed, for being an intelligent guy, you sure say stupid stuff sometimes! The embezzlement of funds had nothing to do with discontinuing the news letter! It had to do with the cost and the fact that 99% of the info was 2 to 3 months old! It was decided that posting info on the website would be more efficient as it would be more up to date! Unfortunately, the previous moderator quit with no notice! So now, we have a group working to fix all the website issues, which have taken time!
One of the biggest issues I hear is lack of info about what’s going on. When we had a news letter, very rarely was there any info submitted by any affiliates! NYSTA’s Executive Director submitted info if there were issues of interest to the members. He was very good at fending off issues detrimental to trapping, which we rarely heard about.
The new website is up and running, with some tweaking still needed. The committee has done a fantastic job and should be commended.
Mac, you want Regional Directors to submit a report of what’s going on in their region. Here is mine for the last 12 months:
I can’t submit a report unless there is something to report!
Finally, those complaining about lack of transparency regarding the Gamba issue, and implying others were complicit/knowledgeable/involved are blowing smoke out their rectum. It is still an ongoing case and those with knowledge of the proceedings cannot speak publicly until it’s over! Is it worth compromising the case just so you can know what’s going on? I will say this, the DA doesn’t seem very interested in the case, thus why it’s dragging on!
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Post by walleyed on Jul 29, 2020 23:41:00 GMT -5
Walleyed, for being an intelligent guy, you sure say stupid stuff sometimes! The embezzlement of funds had nothing to do with discontinuing the news letter! It had to do with the cost and the fact that 99% of the info was 2 to 3 months old! Sorry Robert, I call B.S. on that statement, "Gambling Gamba" was stealing NYSTA funds LONGbefore B.O.D. decided we couldn't afford the newsletter. Funny Thing, We could afford that newsletter for years before that bottom feeder became treasurer. Then It suddenly became "Too Expensive" ? Give me a break. I paid that piece of trash for my membership dues two different years in cash and then never got my Membership card, window sticker, or subscription to trapper's post and when I called him on it, He blamed it on Bob Noonan. I knew he was stealing funds LONG before you had a clue, and I informed the president. That S.O.B. Gamba pocketed every bit of cash NYSTA took in for years, and He got away with it. So don't you dare tell me, I say some stupid stuff. Stupid is what NYSTA B.O.D. were for giving the fox the keys to the hen house. There's some stupid candidates around this fiasco, but walleyed isn't one of them. All the above in my opinion, of course. w
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austin
test results are back... I am joerat's daddy
Posts: 483
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Post by austin on Jul 30, 2020 7:46:15 GMT -5
Better a walrus than a Thief !!!! You and Gambling Gamba should hook up and get a room !!! All in my opinion, of course. LOL w but Bobby, I never stole anything. I did lose several hundred dollars out-of-pocket on an ill-fated venture once, but that was long ago. No big deal... money grows on trees.
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austin
test results are back... I am joerat's daddy
Posts: 483
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Post by austin on Jul 30, 2020 7:54:29 GMT -5
Walleyed, for being an intelligent guy, you sure say stupid stuff sometimes! The embezzlement of funds had nothing to do with discontinuing the news letter! It had to do with the cost and the fact that 99% of the info was 2 to 3 months old! It was decided that posting info on the website would be more efficient as it would be more up to date! Unfortunately, the previous moderator quit with no notice! So now, we have a group working to fix all the website issues, which have taken time! One of the biggest issues I hear is lack of info about what’s going on. When we had a news letter, very rarely was there any info submitted by any affiliates! NYSTA’s Executive Director submitted info if there were issues of interest to the members. He was very good at fending off issues detrimental to trapping, which we rarely heard about. The new website is up and running, with some tweaking still needed. The committee has done a fantastic job and should be commended. Mac, you want Regional Directors to submit a report of what’s going on in their region. Here is mine for the last 12 months: I can’t submit a report unless there is something to report! Finally, those complaining about lack of transparency regarding the Gamba issue, and implying others were complicit/knowledgeable/involved are blowing smoke out their rectum. It is still an ongoing case and those with knowledge of the proceedings cannot speak publicly until it’s over! Is it worth compromising the case just so you can know what’s going on? I will say this, the DA doesn’t seem very interested in the case, thus why it’s dragging on! the remaining active members of NYSTA are doing a fine enough job for what they have to work with. Between crashed & dead wild fur markets, dwindling memberships due to crashed & dead fur market, and overall disinterest in new recruitment of officers or affiliates, the current state of affairs is in fact good as any of us will ever see it again.
wait until next year comes after no convention this year, and the same wuhan-plague saga continuing into 2021 if not beyond. We ain't seen nothing yet. unfortunately.
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Post by joemarshditchrat on Jul 30, 2020 13:02:21 GMT -5
I am sure Groney will be paying me $6.00 for rats again this year.
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austin
test results are back... I am joerat's daddy
Posts: 483
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Post by austin on Jul 30, 2020 13:31:52 GMT -5
I am sure Groney will be paying me $6.00 for rats again this year. sure... $5+ for the 10% of your catch that grade xxxl heavy and clear
you'll pry fetch a $3 to $3.50 average overall, depending on how many flat fall slates you pollute the total catch with.
fur prices all pending what happens globally with the China-virus plague. If cases are still spiking in Asia this fall/winter, the wild fur market will be a disaster. Cross your fingers none of those Chinese eat any more undercooked Wuhan Wild-Wings
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Post by joemarshditchrat on Jul 30, 2020 13:41:52 GMT -5
You have no clue as to what I get for my rats. My average last year was around $5.00.
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