tmc
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,447
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Mange?
Dec 3, 2019 17:41:13 GMT -5
Post by tmc on Dec 3, 2019 17:41:13 GMT -5
Just wondering, from anyone who knows, how mange is transmitted from one animal to another. When I came in for lunch today, I saw a large red fox, monkey-butt, barely any hair on the tail, I'm sure it was mange. It was old, the fur on the head and face was almost all white. Poor thing was struggling to walk (we've got about 14 inches of snow), but it made it's way to the deer carcass I placed in the orchard about 200 yards behind the house. Nothing had opened the carcass yet, and it was too weak to get through the hide to feed, but it was ALL OVER the carcass. While I was watching it, a friend called and believe it or not he talks more than I do lol... I finally told him I had to go because of the fox and I wanted to put it out of it's misery and bury or burn it. But by that time, the fox was nowhere in sight. So my question is, did the fox contaminate the carcass with its mange, or is that not how it's spread? Not sure if it has to be direct contact or by what means it spreads. Late last night against the snow I saw a lone coyote approach to within about 50 feet of the carcass, but there were 5 deer milling around it and the coyote left after a few minutes of walking back and forth while sizing up the situation. Except for the fox today, nothing else has been at the carcass. I haven't yet made any sets around it, wondering now if I should even bother.
Thanks in advance, - Tim
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Mange?
Dec 3, 2019 18:12:22 GMT -5
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Post by trappermac on Dec 3, 2019 18:12:22 GMT -5
Transferred by the mange mite, usually from close contact. But the mite can also jump ship and survive without a host (such as in your carpet) they say for 3-10 days. The question in your case is if the fox transferred any mites to the deer carcass, would they be able to survive long in the current temps. My guess would be probably not, but thats a guess. Kill that poor fox soon, mange is extremely painful especially when advanced like you describe.
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tmc
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,447
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Mange?
Dec 3, 2019 18:29:54 GMT -5
Post by tmc on Dec 3, 2019 18:29:54 GMT -5
Thanks, Mac. Yeah, I felt bad for letting the conversation go on so long. It's one of the same foxes that's been hanging around the neighborhood since mid-summer. It had been a little slow, at times wobbly when it walked, but the mange wasn't apparent until today. This is the first I've seen it since around the beginning of October. I had presumed it was just old, but now with the noticeable mange it's long overdue for some mercy. Given that it has trouble getting around, I'm thinking it'll probably use the roadways, and likely get hit by a car. Not a better way to go, but then it's suffering would still be over.
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Mange?
Dec 3, 2019 18:37:36 GMT -5
Post by ron finewood on Dec 3, 2019 18:37:36 GMT -5
Mange is such a disgusting ailment for all concerned. I have had 2 coyotes and 1 red fox with it this fall. One coyote was advanced and looked like your fox. The other coyote and the fox, well I skinned them, and after washing the pelts, noticed what looked like coarse sand still in the fur. It was Sarcoptic Mange Mites. All that work for nothing, plus I felt so sorry for the host critters. Well, I gotta go----My head is itching so bad.............
Ron
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Mange?
Dec 3, 2019 20:08:27 GMT -5
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Post by trappermac on Dec 3, 2019 20:08:27 GMT -5
All my canines this year have been perfect fur wise, and thats unusual.
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Mange?
Dec 3, 2019 21:42:07 GMT -5
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Post by dinorocks on Dec 3, 2019 21:42:07 GMT -5
I caught three coyotes over the past days...two had mange (?)...1-2 inch bald patches on their hind quarters and on their sides. I saw two with bad mange on my camera a couple months ago.
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tmc
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,447
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Post by tmc on Dec 4, 2019 0:35:18 GMT -5
Bittersweet, Dino - Congratulations on the catches, sorry for those two. Too bad they weren't the same ones you got on camera, sadly it means at least two more with mange. Another question - I've heard/read that mange is generally a result of overpopulation, but I don't know if that's true. In my own observations, similar to the way lynx population follows varying hare population, mange seems to follow fur prices: A year or two after low prices, mange (and rabies, et al) seems to uptick significantly, and decrease a year or two after prices go up. My thinking is the lack of trapping pressure leads to greater numbers. But that's just my own theory, for what it's worth.
That brings up another point with regard to the anti's -- My observations tell me that nothing in Nature dies of old age, except maybe opossums (3 years is "ancient" for them) and some trees. In Nature, death comes from being killed and eaten, or from being eaten alive, or from wounds or injuries, or infection from wounds or injuries, or from disease, or by starvation, by drowning/floods, or from fires, or extreme heat or cold, or from parasites, or -- pick from among any number of cruel and/or painful ways to die. By comparison, a relatively very short time (especially short, compared to mange) restrained in a trap followed by a humane dispatch at the hands of an ethical trapper would seem a preferred way to go. I know that if an anti runs over a coyote, they'll assuage their guilt by calling it an "accident" (THERE ARE NO ACCIDENTS, ONLY COLLISIONS), or "incidental," "unintentional," and while that may make it better in their mind, it's still a more painful way to go than from ethical trapping. And on top of it, we use the pelt as a valuable resource, while in the aforementioned case it's just compost in a few months.
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Post by Rick on Dec 4, 2019 19:39:31 GMT -5
Tmc, my understanding of the subject and thoughts here. The mange mite cannot live for any length of time without the body heat of the host. I've thrown plenty of manged red fox in the bushes and I believe the dig a hole with a backhoe, light the fox on fire, throw him in and backfill guys are nuts. I have also skinned plenty of mange fox. It is a canine specific mite that cannot live on you. I have reason to believe it can try...and give you a little itchy rash on your wrist but only for a day or so. The mite will not jump off a nice warm fox where it can survive onto a deer carcass where it can't survive whether the deer is dead or alive. Can it live a few days in your carpet as Mac suggests? I dunno...that's a good one. Never thought of that.
I know it is 100% fatal to red fox. I have seen mange fox dead in the trap unable to survive being out in the elements all night completely hairless. I have seen fox that we're blind due to their eyelids being completely scabbed over. I have also skinned gorgeous fox that just needed their tail cut off and fox that showed no sign of mange except for a blue, hairless ball sack. I always felt lucky with those because I know it wouldn't be long.
The mange is horrible. Repulsive to the eye and just a horrible, horrible way for such a beautiful animal to die. I have always said that it's always here. It's always in my fox population, but like Mac, I haven't seen any this year (knocking on wood right now.) I also have reason to believe, no science here, but I believe the mange fox is always on the move, cutting across the countryside. Natures way of spreading it around I guess.
Rick
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Mange?
Dec 4, 2019 19:54:44 GMT -5
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Post by trappermac on Dec 4, 2019 19:54:44 GMT -5
Knocked on wood here as well Rick when I wrote that. Glad you're seeing the same, hope your season is going well.
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