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Post by rookie on Mar 15, 2017 13:15:57 GMT -5
Ok.... Enough arguing then. Now that I know that you all are still passionate trappers, enlighten me as to why these predator mass kill calling contests are fine with you. First of all it's dangerous hunting at night with this high tech gear they have out now. A guy just got shot around here not to long ago by a caller. Lord knows what he was doing looking for sheds in the dark but nonetheless it happened. Seriously, I must be missing something. Although I do get once a "privy" is taken away it's often on to the next "privy". I am not advocating that hunting, trapping, fishing rights be taken away at all. I guess I just have a hard time with unusable fur or any other thing that is wasted. Again, I am totally fine how ever you desire to kill your game but contests just compound the problem of waste to me. I really do want to stay united with outdoorsman and do what is best to manage a resource for future years of enjoyment for everyone. My name's not "rookie" for nothing!
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Post by hardwoodcharlie on Mar 15, 2017 13:38:16 GMT -5
If you were to vision all of our outdoor passions or hobbies all in one group picture it as a wheel,Now each group represents a spoke in this out door weel,crow hunters,deer hunters, Rabbit,and coon hunters,fisherman,all of these people that partake inthe same out doors as us trappers,compatition hunters.ect....so once you start nocking the spokes out of your wheel it becomes very shaky and unstable and will fail quicker than a wheel whith all it's spokes in it...it's about the best I got for ya.
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Post by rookie on Mar 15, 2017 14:30:10 GMT -5
Hardwoodcharlie? Should be Hardwisdomcharlie! I'm really good with this analysis. Thx
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Post by psb1011 on Mar 15, 2017 14:36:00 GMT -5
Here in SEPA we (hunters,trappers farmers,etc) are trying to exterminate the last coyote left alive and can not get it done.For years. If you think trappers,and callers are going to hurt your coyote populations ,,you are kidding yourself.The only thing that will eliminate your redox is the coyotes themselves.Get out there and kill as many as you can,and we will revisit this issue in about 20 years and see who is right. In the mean time,don't ever side with the enemy.
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Post by trappermac on Mar 15, 2017 14:56:20 GMT -5
Nothing more exciting than a pair of eyes glowing red coming at you and your caller 1:00 in the morning on your 5th stand, especially a yote. Hangs up at 150 yards and you light him up with your scope light and place the crosshairs on his chest and squeeze the trigger on your .204 and watch that yote fall over like a rock. Excitin stuff!
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Post by rookie on Mar 15, 2017 15:59:05 GMT -5
No doubt trappermac that sounds exciting. I just would rather see him laying down with a foot stuck in my MB 550 before I put him down. I also call and also run dogs after those Yotes. When fox come into my call or run by with the dogs I let em go. Just would rather catch Mr. Red in the trap. I wait for Mr. nasty Yote to arrive. It's all good and again for everyone gettin their share and then some. I know many want every Yote there is to be a dead Yote. Not sure if I like that idea as I enjoy pursuing them. Again, my problem is trying to utilize everything that a creature offers. I hate waste! "Peace out" my brothers!
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Post by jeckman on Mar 15, 2017 16:15:19 GMT -5
There's piss poor people in every part of life.. A few bad apples shouldn't be a reason for the rest of us to not be able to do anything. Wether it be carry a gun, be in a yote/fox contest, or sled ride without a helmet... lol but seriously
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Post by trappermac on Mar 15, 2017 16:44:02 GMT -5
No doubt trappermac that sounds exciting. I just would rather see him laying down with a foot stuck in my MB 550 before I put him down. I also call and also run dogs after those Yotes. When fox come into my call or run by with the dogs I let em go. Just would rather catch Mr. Red in the trap. I wait for Mr. nasty Yote to arrive. It's all good and again for everyone gettin their share and then some. I know many want every Yote there is to be a dead Yote. Not sure if I like that idea as I enjoy pursuing them. Again, my problem is trying to utilize everything that a creature offers. I hate waste! "Peace out" my brothers! You continually assume shot fur is wasted. Why? Have you ever attended a predator contest? I have a few of them and there has always been fur buyers at the events with guys lining up to sell. Others leave with their animals as they prefer to put up first. You continually make assumptions without any examples to back up your notions that you must derive from others assumptions. I see deer hunters shoot coyotes and leave them, they're not hunters they just like the sounds of their guns. I know some real serious predator hunters who take pride in well handled fur and respect the animal as much as any trapper. Check this site out...used to be a very busy predator hunting section and these guys were also trappers. You're drawing your line in the wrong forum.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 17:06:14 GMT -5
I have nno problem shootting coyotes....it is the publicity of the contests that gives us a bad name.
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Post by rookie on Mar 15, 2017 21:44:55 GMT -5
I have observed many shot fox and coyotes at these contests. At least 60%-70% of the shot fox that I have seen require so much rehab they are not worth skinning, thus they are wasted. I skun 2 shot fox that I thought might be worth maybe $10 each. I got $2 for one and $1.50 for the other. No doubt the coyote stands up much better to being shot than the fox. Can't believe any fur buyer buys much fox at these predator contests. Hell they are only giving $10-$15 on respectable trapped fox fur at the auctions to begin with. I'm sure that this doesn't pertain to everyone but it has been my observation.
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Post by Dave Morse on Mar 16, 2017 5:41:17 GMT -5
There is more to our sport than pelt value. We have no laws that pertaining to after the harvest of a pelt. If a hunter shoots a fox he isn't obligated to make the pelt go to market ,in fact he can do what he wants ,including pitching it in the ditch.
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Post by rookie on Mar 16, 2017 6:24:17 GMT -5
Yes that is correct Dave but where I was brought up that is called "waste". Just an ethics thing for me and I usually don't take this ethics crap to far. I have a hard time understanding why you would kill anything without trying to use it. Believe me I have no problem killing anything as long as it can be put to use. I was raised in one of those houses where what was unused for dinner one night was put in the fridge for the next night or week or until it was gone. Never thrown out!
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Post by 160andup on Mar 16, 2017 9:29:01 GMT -5
In the mean time,don't ever side with the enemy. This is what it all boils down to.
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tmc
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,447
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Post by tmc on Mar 16, 2017 15:04:56 GMT -5
What do you call the section of our trapping regulations dealing with unintended catch of non-target species after their respective season closes, and they're injured to the extent "you believe it will not survive" - see page 55 of the New York Hunting & Trapping 2016-2017 Official Guide to Laws & Regulations. To possess such catches, even to take it back to your vehicle, is against the law. Where do you draw the line for the definition of "waste?" Surely not to the point of violating the laws governing the license granted to you, the same laws that by purchasing said license you agreed to in advance. Right? I get the whole "I hate waste" point of view, I agree with it. But as was stated in an earlier post, them's mighty thin lines being painted with a pretty wide brush. I guess it's obvious that most seasons are closed, others are coming to an end, and we've got cabin fever from this S.O.B. of a nor'easter that's wrecked our part of the world. This is the hottest thread on the site right now??? I guess it's all well and good as a topic for discussion, but I can't see where it'll ever turn into something that would produce any results. It's kind of like looking for your chewing gum after you lose it in the henhouse - you have to really feel for it.
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tmc
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,447
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Post by tmc on Mar 16, 2017 15:07:23 GMT -5
And Joe? - shut up, you're stuttering again.
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paintedpaw
Retired NYSDEC Lake George Ranger
Posts: 692
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Post by paintedpaw on Mar 16, 2017 15:53:28 GMT -5
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I happen to be a die hard Conservative, however there are a lots of these contests that I oppose; Coyote hunts, rattlesnake roundups, and bass tournaments to name just a few. I am an avid trapper, but I also love to hunt deer. I just love it when other trappers complain that we deer hunters are messing up their trapping. I don't like that archers get a head start on the deer hunting, but I don't go around crying about it. As a former Lake George ranger I saw first hand the results of the bass tournaments. Dead bass floating for days after! I hate coyotes, want them all dead, but what affect do these late season hunts have upon bred foxes and/or their litters? Rattlesnake roundups? They should be protected in some states; not hunted! Now if you really must have mass killing I would suggest that people start with crows,pidgeons, and wild pigs!
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Post by saquelie on Mar 16, 2017 17:13:13 GMT -5
What do you call the section of our trapping regulations dealing with unintended catch of non-target species after their respective season closes, and they're injured to the extent "you believe it will not survive" - see page 55 of the New York Hunting & Trapping 2016-2017 Official Guide to Laws & Regulations. To possess such catches, even to take it back to your vehicle, is against the law. Where do you draw the line for the definition of "waste?" Surely not to the point of violating the laws governing the license granted to you, the same laws that by purchasing said license you agreed to in advance. Right? I get the whole "I hate waste" point of view, I agree with it. But as was stated in an earlier post, them's mighty thin lines being painted with a pretty wide brush. I guess it's obvious that most seasons are closed, others are coming to an end, and we've got cabin fever from this S.O.B. of a nor'easter that's wrecked our part of the world. This is the hottest thread on the site right now??? I guess it's all well and good as a topic for discussion, but I can't see where it'll ever turn into something that would produce any results. It's kind of like looking for your chewing gum after you lose it in the henhouse - you have to really feel for it. Tmc , with the price of coon improving I wonder if I set 50, 155's in cubbies for them during the open fisher season and not having a fisher permit or logbook I will have to lay them on the ground to rot. Will Dec consider that wanton waste?
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Post by nightstalker1 on Mar 16, 2017 17:25:55 GMT -5
If you want to see REAL waste, work for the federal government & just look around
It will make you shake your head
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Zagman
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,186
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Post by Zagman on Mar 16, 2017 18:21:54 GMT -5
I have nno problem shootting coyotes....it is the publicity of the contests that gives us a bad name. How do you feel about fishing contests/tourneys? Those same people that don't like coyote contests don't like you holding that fish for a picture with your son. I mean, holding a fish OUT of the water is like me holding your head UNDER water. Should we talk about the hooks in the mouth, ripping them out of their habitat, and then drowning them OUT of the water for a picture? Sicko!!! Of course, I am being ridiculous, but don't think those people that hate hunting and trapping are some how in love with your picture under your name and what it represents..... It's a slippery slope supporting some animal use and not others so vehemently.......as there are fine lines for sure. Just sayin'............. Zagman
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Post by surveyor on Mar 16, 2017 18:40:16 GMT -5
Being a shooter of fur, it all boils down to... why the trigger was pulled. Whackin' and stackin' for contests will ruin pelts! Deer hunters, as a matter of luck, shooting with high power rifles, will ruin pelts! Guys out there shooting predators instead of getting testosterone shots to boost their manhood, will ruin pelts! I don't participate in contests, but see no more harm in them then I see done by vehicles on highways 24/7 365. I will shoot a coyote while deer hunting, but have chosen to use a caliber rifle that serves both purposes. Deer hunters as group don't shoot many coyotes, unless an area is overrun with them. I see no harm with the few they shoot. I do not shoot predators to boost my testosterone level, but guys that do most likely miss more than they get. I see no harm in what they are doing.
I shoot to control predators and specialize in not ruining pelts. Just ask the avid gent trapper I give dozens of coyotes and foxes to each year. Oh and I don't buy into this waste thing...I have never seen any dead critter left in the woods wasted. Other animals make better use of it than we ever could! One last thing...we are all hippocrates to one degree or another, but left wingers the likes of which mercilessly flatten critters with their Mercedes Benz on their way to get manicures take the cake!
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tmc
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,447
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Post by tmc on Mar 16, 2017 22:54:10 GMT -5
saquelie, I have no idea what the DEC thinks, or if they even do think at all regarding certain things. We're told they have a definition of wanton waste and we can't do that, but then that same regulation would seem to be the very definition of wanton waste. "The more rules governing the body, the more corrupt the body becomes." In time, it becomes impossible to obey one law without violating at least one other.
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Post by pauljohnson on Mar 18, 2017 15:07:24 GMT -5
All sportsman need to support all other sportsman regardless it you agree with them or not. There will come a time when your sport of choice is threatened and you will need their support. What you choose to pursue in the outdoor sports is as much privilege as what they choose as an outdoor sport. The Antis are after all of us, They just go after us one at a time. Please be careful about what you say and do.
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Post by squash on Mar 22, 2017 18:26:53 GMT -5
Paul, that's right, every time there's some proposed anti-trapping legislation, us trappers welcome coyote hunters support.
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tomsnare
It's a good time to be a trapper!
Posts: 514
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Post by tomsnare on Mar 26, 2017 20:12:41 GMT -5
I live in New Mexico so will comment on the coyote contest -------There is NO night hunting allowed except racoons------the contests are held on private land ONLY------Coyotes are a pest and have a negative real negative effect on agriculture ------I've worked the NMTA sales and the price difference when you see the southern pelts versus the higher elevation it's not surprising that a lot of coyotes aren't pelted------want to know why livestock owners feel the way they do? Take a weeks pay and start up the grill then burn it up! That may give you some insight. I worked a contest the NMTA sponsored and spent long hours skinning coyotes for our education program. There are comments about waste, these animals are under harvested and mange is common, they are common in the cities. The bill is dead! When I first moved here I literally trapped and shot coyotes in my front yard.--------Tom----The New Mexico Trappers, I am proud to say opposed this bill, so did our game& fish dept something DEC would be relucant to do, I was in Albany where they sat on their hands at a Trapping Bill hearing!
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Post by hardwoodcharlie on Mar 26, 2017 20:23:42 GMT -5
That's good to hear Tom.
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