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Post by centro44 on May 15, 2012 19:40:01 GMT -5
So I had to go look at a sandblasting job in utica today.........guy wanted the stone face on his house(which has paint on it) and cement walk way blasted.........1) its a good drive from my house 2) would have to cover flowers/bushes and tape/plastic windows 3) to get job done in a day, I would bring a worker with me 4) responsible for clean up 5) tight space to work in...........I told the guy $600........he told me I was too high........lol god I love people and being in business...........maybe tomorrow I will tell you about the real knee slapper I had for a call today
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Post by Itrapny on May 15, 2012 20:02:44 GMT -5
Sorry to say but I have to agree with him as I wouldn't pay anyone $75/hour to sandblast(assuming an 8 hours day). Did he have a counter offer for you?
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Post by centro44 on May 15, 2012 20:40:43 GMT -5
no offense to you at all wayne..... but lets all do the math....daring but ill let people know...
cost to do job(10 hours):
1) sand $50 2) fuel $125 3) supplies $50 4) laborer $100 $325 total just to do job with no break downs and no other costs
now the cost for me to be able to do the work i do:
1) a ton of sand is $75 and i cant buy less then a ton 2) fuel at $3.99 a gallon 3) comressor $8,900 4) hopper $589 5) chevy dually $10,999 6) nossels $47 a piece 7) hoses $887 for all that is needed grand total of $21,497
now thats where my prices come from whe i bid a job.......i dont play with the walmart blasters otr tractor supply blasters......i use equipment that i do work such as for example of past jobs......10 story building out of state.........tractor trailers for walmart(painted also).......22 pay loaders for a gravel company in rochester(painted also) just examples......i enjoy the small work too
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Post by mexicantrapper on May 15, 2012 20:55:27 GMT -5
I am also self employed and unfourtunitly run into the same issue, If you've never done it, you don't understand. Let's break it down..... $50.00 for gas (truck and blaster), a good laborer will run $100.00 for the day, and if your like me you'll spend $20 on lunch for the two of you, sand for the blaster , insurance for the business and the truck, wear and tear on equiptment and truck which should always be figured into each job, you mentioned tape and plastic. I'm sure I missed something cause I don't sandblast. So.... bottom line you would probably clear $300 for the day. Good for you. Tell the guy to go rent a sand blaster and do it himself. And when he destroys his house it'll cost him thousands.
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Post by mexicantrapper on May 15, 2012 20:58:50 GMT -5
You beat me to the punch Centro. I was typing when you posted.
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Post by papabear on May 15, 2012 21:15:33 GMT -5
Dear Friends, Boys its the OVERHEAD costs that most folks dont understand. Insurance, workers comp., licences/permits, taxes, equipment depreciation and on and on. Factor that all in and your $300 is probably nore like $75 - $100 is what you actually end up with if your lucky and dont run into problems.......Regards papabear
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2012 21:32:49 GMT -5
Been there, I have done heating and air conditioning for 25 years and everyone always calling me because they think I will give them free labor when there furnace craps the bed in the middle of the night.
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Post by papabear on May 15, 2012 21:49:06 GMT -5
Dear Mr. Centro, using the costs you listed and assuming you and a laborer for 10 hrs. your base cost for that project should be $625. Now you factor in overhead and profit at 20% {conservative figure} oeverhead and 10% profit @ 187.50 for a job total of $812.50........Id say that fella passed up a fair price..........Just so you know ive been estimating jobs for over 20 years.......Regards papabear
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traps82
#3 Newhouse
Hope is always alive
Posts: 3,208
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Post by traps82 on May 16, 2012 0:13:05 GMT -5
I had a lady tell me today that her parents should not have to pay for a service call because they are in there 80s!! DO NOT EVER UNDERESTIMATE THE DEPTH OF THE STUPIDITY OF THE PUBLIC!!! Look at what was elected as our POTUS!
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Post by scott on May 16, 2012 4:09:31 GMT -5
I worked as a professional estimator for a contracting company for about two and half year at the end of my carpentry career before I went into education.
As Papabear pointed out most folks have not a clue as to what the true costs are to running a business. Society, and the government has developed an environment that is not all that friendly to the small business man or women. It is very tough to make a go of it today and my hat is off to anyone that can.
Scott
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Post by Itrapny on May 16, 2012 4:59:24 GMT -5
I fully understand the cost of running a business (I've done it before) and you can't figure in the start up cost into your labor rate. But you stated that it would be a one day job and I was assuming an 8 hour day, which would have been $75/hour. Now if you can't do the job in one day and need additional hours the cost would most certainly be higher, but that's on you to adjust it accordingly....While $60/hour is most certainly fair, I'll stand by my original post and not pay $75/hour and if you're getting that on a regular basis, please letme know as I'm currently looking for a job!
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Post by trappermac on May 16, 2012 7:02:58 GMT -5
I think if you planned on the job being an all day job, and you charge (which you should) portal to portal, then let's figure it's a 10 hour day for you which puts you at $60.00/hour which is very fair for a service. I've managed private industrial business's for my entire life and to find any outside contractor for less then $75.00/hour is almost unheard of. If you do, the quality of work reflects it.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2012 7:40:21 GMT -5
Wayne would you you pay me between a 100 dollars an hr too 125.00 dollars an hr just too mow your lawn thats what i get just too mow your lawn then i charge you sales tax on top of that .people just don't understand the cost assoiciated with running a business 600.00 and 75.00 dollars an hr is cheapif i labor on a job it is 45.00 an hr and a helper is 35.00 being i have too pay workersman comp and it ain't cheap if you ask me people are always wanting you too do something for nothing not this boy!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Itrapny on May 16, 2012 8:33:45 GMT -5
No Joel I wouldn't....maybe I should start mowing lawns?
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Post by centro44 on May 16, 2012 10:27:44 GMT -5
go to a garage to get your car fixed.....ever looked at hourly rate.....it is crazy.......my father owned his own welding business for 28 years and is now retired......he now builds top soil screeners....started it as a little money to go along with the retirment......it has turned into $500,000 company a year.....but when he was a welder he charged $60 an hour and had no shortage of customers....did work for TLC which is a fiber optic cable company, every mill around, and so on......my point is that you pay for what you get
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traps82
#3 Newhouse
Hope is always alive
Posts: 3,208
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Post by traps82 on May 16, 2012 12:02:57 GMT -5
Garages are my FAVORITES to hear complain about the cost of a service call!! They have no problem with charging you the hourly rate and not even blinking...
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Post by rockintheocean on May 16, 2012 17:55:57 GMT -5
I don't understand the start up cost.I mean if the guy ,lawnmower,sandblaster,whatever you do has to lay out the money for the equipment , uses it as they pay it off ,by then probably needs to buy a new one. renting a place or buying a shop, still morgage payment .Always need insurance , license needs renewal .only thing i can think of is maybe the DBA. A one time cost . I can't say that I have the experance then most do on this thread,but can say that I'm trying to start one up right now . I figure by the time I get to the point to where I can say I'm making a profit .i will have to replace at least some equipment . and have plenty of repair costs to go with it. I can only say I'll make a pay check. All in all this thread has been very infomative . thanks all
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Post by centro44 on May 16, 2012 19:04:03 GMT -5
lets look at it this way......the equipment wasnt free so i have to gt my money back some where........also what if you are a person who had to take out a LOAN to start a business.......BANK IS GOING TO WANT THERE MONEY BACK THAT THEY GAVE YOU TO GET THE EQUIPMENT
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Post by bballou on May 16, 2012 19:25:57 GMT -5
Way back years ago----when we used a slide rule---I was in collage---took a side course---on running your own business-----sure did wake me up to the hardships of owning your own business -----and the amounts one has to charge jest to try and stay in business.---- Centro and papabear---and a few others here ------ would probably do very well teaching ( how to run your own business today) ---because they are wright on track.I.M.O.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2012 21:22:17 GMT -5
Well boys let me give you a few lessons in owning your own business you are either sole proprietor or incorporated if your in corporateed you pay a yearly incorporation tax of 300.00 dollars so that if ya get sued they can only take your business holdings and not everything you own, if you have a service business or just plain business get your self some really good business insurance and it ain't cheap. also you will need to be a sales tax vendor and collect sales tax for services which is due in march( not the best time of year . If you are like me and work 2 jobs it is a good idea to have a DBA separate from your other job as self employed people have different write offs and you will need too have a business account to deposit checks into so say if someone writes a check too you on your birthday you can cash it without having to claim it as income. If your are going too own a business you will need liability insurance and workers comp if you hire employees also. Expenses are your gas, auto insurance, repairs and all other operating costs from postage to office supplies to materials and tools too get the job done which all cuts from the bottom line, also being self employed you pay more in income taxes. People who works for someone else pay 32cents on every dollar they earn too taxes , self employed people pay 42 cents on the dollar as they pay more for social security being there is no employer to match contributions so you must do that yourself. also equipment has to be figured into your price if your in lawn business or any business that uses big equipment, purchase payments all have to be covered by your hrly rates and whether or not you work year round or seasonal reflects on what you need to charge and still stay competive in todays economy. NOW COMES THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF OWNING YOUR OWN BUSINESS GETTING PAID FOR SERVICES RENDERED JUST BECUSE YOU DID THE JOB DOESN'T ALWAYS MEAN YOU WILL GET PAID I GOT STUCK FOR 11,000 DOLLARS LAST YEAR FROM PEOPLE THAT DIDN'T PAY ME!!!!!!!!
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Post by papabear on May 16, 2012 23:00:01 GMT -5
Dear Mr. Buckbuster, no one has mentioned health insurance or retirement. If anyone would like to know how to figure your overhead costs that SHOULD BE ADDED TO EVERY ESTIMATED JOB, feel free to contact me and i will help you figure that out......if one doesnt add overhead and profit to your estimates, over and above materials + labor costs you will work a lot and end up with very little or eventually be out of business......Regards papabear
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Post by papabear on May 16, 2012 23:35:03 GMT -5
Dear Mr. Buckbuster, Do you use work orders, proposals, or contracts? These documents not only protect your clients/customers by explaining the work that they are to pay you for, but are your recourse should you need to pursue legal means to collect payment for services rendered....these documents need not be anything fancy....just plain paper will suffice...be specific and be sure your customer signs and dates it.. Regards papabear
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Post by bballou on May 17, 2012 6:13:49 GMT -5
buckbuster 522 ----papabear is on target-----Myself and a partner had our own business for over 20 years---- I found the courts to be very friendly to my business---and never lost in court----because we had the paper work to back us up-----and when that bad feeling crept up ------ 50% down was required then 25% at the half-way mark---jest be ready to walk. AND DO IT.-----If I might -----years ago when people built stone chimneys--the builder would put a peace of glass half way up the chimney---when he got his money --he dropped a stone down the chimney breaking the glass----letting the smoke up the chimney.PROTECT YOURSELF
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2012 7:35:48 GMT -5
Trust me guys i have all my ducks in a row as far as paper work and contracts i'm in the lawn care business and even though you have contracts doesn't mean your going to get paid and yes i have gone the court route but it still doesn't mean your going to get paid last years economy hurt lots of my customers being that most of my cleintel are weekend city owners that couldn't afford the up keep on there properties and that is where it gets complicated and expensive .
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2012 15:28:16 GMT -5
Trust me guys i have all my ducks in a row as far as paper work and contracts i'm in the lawn care business and even though you have contracts doesn't mean your going to get paid and yes i have gone the court route but it still doesn't mean your going to get paid last years economy hurt lots of my customers being that most of my cleintel are weekend city owners that couldn't afford the up keep on there properties and that is where it gets complicated and expensive . Put a mechanics lien on their property. That will teach them
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