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Post by E.Reynolds on Mar 12, 2012 8:01:40 GMT -5
we may need a little help here. some of us are already assembling to come out in numbers. read the comments to get a better idea of what may ossibly happen here. I think everyone here already knows. if you are local i will see you there. any advise is more than welcome. www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20120311/NEWS05/703119847
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Post by Itrapny on Mar 12, 2012 16:12:33 GMT -5
Have you contacted Dave Miller & John Rockwood for NYSTA support on this? This is certainly something that NYSTA should be involved with because it involves not trappers, but ALL sportsmen & women in NY because once a precident is set, others can fall like domino's.
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traps82
#3 Newhouse
Hope is always alive
Posts: 3,208
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Post by traps82 on Mar 12, 2012 17:13:21 GMT -5
HOLY you know what!!!!!!!!!!!! And yet there are people who dont vote.... This iswhat iscoming everywhere folks!! We have a US A/G who sues states for protecting their citizens. A POTUS who has to kill terrorists overseas because he can't do it here!! Builds captured ones new soccer fields... I am not really shocked at any of this.. Not at all.
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Post by sixgun44 on Mar 12, 2012 18:51:06 GMT -5
WOW...What idiotic BULLSH*!. Sonds like a lot of phone calls need to be made and meetings need to be attended. I wonder what the real reason behind this is...Could it be another Lib having a power trip. Sounds to me like scene from a Disney movie ...what hunter would set up near a trail or where kids are, last time i checked hunters avoided people occupied areas...Oh yeah in "Disney Land" Big deer frolic through the forest with their friends the coyote ,and bear , awaiting is the evil hunter and cruel nine fingered trapper...Is there not enough crap going like no jobs and second rate education...Classic desperate political vote getter and or diversion. Try calling the NRA and see if they can help.
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Post by barrington on Mar 12, 2012 20:16:35 GMT -5
Does the town even have the right?
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Post by bob110 on Mar 12, 2012 20:24:14 GMT -5
By the sounds of things a trapper or nuisance trapper couldn't even trap town property (culverts flooding roads) A lot of towns contact trappers to take care of problem beaver , I guess there roads will just remain flooded or constant man hours to unplug culvers.
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Post by mikeyb on Mar 12, 2012 21:14:28 GMT -5
I can't imagine that a town could pass this law, maybe an ordinance prohibiting discharge of weapons, but our rights to bear arms are protected by the federal government. I sent an inquiry to the N.R.A. to at least bring it to there attention. Seems like this is the "New" America, if we enjoy our rights we better be ready to fight for them.
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Post by barrington on Mar 13, 2012 5:06:18 GMT -5
maybe we should all converge for some shooting over the weekend,in Hopkinton
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Post by herm on Mar 13, 2012 6:41:19 GMT -5
There are already several towns that dont allow hunting or trapping on town land owned by the towns and they didnt need a law passed to make that happen,just a town board ruling. One thing I saw yesterday in the town of Sodus that really has me wondering.The State of NY aquried land and that land now is state park lands and the normal green signs that the state uses to mark these lands are in place.But also under every green sign the town of Sodus has placed a posted sign posting these lands.Now how can they do that?
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Post by E.Reynolds on Mar 13, 2012 6:48:34 GMT -5
the supervisor said they will be brushing up on the law because it is a very broad one. they intend to tighten it up by allowing law enforcement to carry. cause you know...a town supervisor can keep out NYS Police, DEC and Federal Agents. it goes on to not only defend the idea of protecting the children (which is the selling point) but to further protect the walkers and hikers and animals. if this catches on can you imagine one of these villages/towns ANYWHERE in the state picking up on a large land sale? or being given some for safe keeping. this can not happen! now we have a person trying to dilute and confuse the public in the message section of that article. Frank J Thies, has owned properties in 6 Adirondack towns very close to this area and has many connections with on line special interest groups. amazing.
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wcs
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Post by wcs on Mar 13, 2012 9:43:10 GMT -5
A town law cannot overide a state law. If NYS says you can carry a handgun and issues a license, a town cannot take that away. Many years ago down in Rockland, the county tried to make a law banning trapping. It went to the highest court in the state and they ruked that the couty was not allowed to superseed a state law. Trappers won that day. I imagine the same rule stands for gun possession in a town also
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Post by mikeyb on Mar 13, 2012 11:30:53 GMT -5
isnt the mojority of funding for these state lands from the money paid for sporting licenses? maybe if they're gonna post these properties they should start selling hiking, dog walking, and horse riding license probably a few more they could put price tags on too.
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Post by herm on Mar 13, 2012 15:31:17 GMT -5
The way I read the story the town is not trying to outlaw hunting and trapping in the town.They are only talking about land owned by the town.This has taken place all over the state by town boards that vote not to allow hunting or trapping on town lands.I am sure they will get it right by not including roads.I thing some of you are miss reading this. If I drive through the City Of Rochester with my 10/22 Rugar I am breaking the law and that is on all lands ,just not what is owned by the city.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 15:39:31 GMT -5
All they have to do is say there is "no discharging of firearms within the town", and that will make it illegal to hunt on private property too.
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Post by rockintheocean on Mar 13, 2012 16:49:48 GMT -5
The key words here I think is town property.Here in Suffolk we have many restrictions. At one point the county wanted to ban steel traps . As far as I know There is no trapping on county property. Hunting is very restricted. I do believe that it was not allowed at one point on county owned land . Now only county residents can hunt waterfowl and deer in a few county parks. Again very restricted. I think after the ducks and geese would not leave due to the practice of park visitors feeding them ,along with the now over population of deer and fear of Lyme's caused the county to rethink things over. As far as towns here ,maybe a couple out east allow hunting .bow only not sure on that . do know that each township wants a firearm registered along with the usual fed regs. We also need permits to access state land here.All activities.including fishing, hiking, mountain bike riding.ect...The permit is free though and good for three years. I think as long as the human population keeps growing ,and habitat disappearing we are all going to have to face this evil sooner or later. Stand up fight for your rights , but most of all be ethical.Be considerate of others wanting to enjoy the outdoors the way they like to.I know I would not ask to set a deer stand in an area frequented by children.I hope it all works out for you all up there . One thing is for sure ,its a pain in the @#$% trying to figure out what we can ,and can't do here.
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wcs
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Post by wcs on Mar 13, 2012 17:49:43 GMT -5
All they have to do is say there is "no discharging of firearms within the town", and that will make it illegal to hunt on private property too. There is case law that states those regulations are not enforcable as well. The towns still keep the laws on the books but its not legal. If NYS says hunting is allowed with guns, then a town cant overide them. period. And as far as I know, no town can make a resident register their firearms. That is a no no. Rockinocean, did you mean they had to state which gun they were using on that particular hunt on that day, or register the gun to keep in the house?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 18:06:18 GMT -5
There has been an on going battle in the town of Salina over duck hunting in Onondaga lake due the town of Salina having a no discharging of firearms.....There is no NYS law that says you can fire a gun where you want so that claim is null and void. If the town owns the property they can tell you what you can and can't do on their property. They have the right to up no tresspassing, no hunting, no dumping, no trapping or no shooting signs as they please just as you can do on your property.
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Post by rockintheocean on Mar 13, 2012 19:12:41 GMT -5
Correction ,A town permit is needed to hunt deer during the firearm season here. Even on private property. The reason is to keep it at 1 hunter per 10 acres of land. Only within the area of Suffolk county were firearms are allowed to be used ( which is not very big) .Here we can only use a shotgun , muzzle loading ,crossbow only. No registration as I stated before.State land, there is a lottery for deer hunting during firearm season.Keep in mind there are more people living in the town of Brookhaven (my town) then all of Miami.
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wcs
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Post by wcs on Mar 13, 2012 19:24:35 GMT -5
Marshrat, if an individual owns property on that lake, meets all the criteria set forth by the DEC in regards to hunting (500 feet from dwelling, so forth), then he is in his right to hunt there. The town may have a no discharge law, but if the DEC says its ok to hunt there, then it is. State law always trumps a local ordinance.
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Post by E.Reynolds on Mar 13, 2012 19:33:08 GMT -5
Proposed Local Law Be it hereby enacted by the Town Board of the Town of Hopkinton as follows: Section 1: Local Law No. of 20 , entitled 'HUNTING/FIREARM LAW;" is hereby proposed to read in its entirety as follows: HUNTING/FIREARM LAW
§1. Title This Local Law shall be cited as the "Hunting/Firearm Law of the Town of Hopkinton, New York."
§2. Purpose The Town Board of the Town of Hopkinton, adopts this Local Law to protect Public health, welfare, safety, peace and tranquility by regulating hunting, trapping, firearms and other such weapons upon any property owned by the Town of Hopkinton.
§3. Hunting, etc., Prohibited No person shall hunt, trap, use or have in their possession any hunting device upon any real property owned by the Town of Hopkinton. Hunting devices include firearms of every type, bows and arrows, traps or any other device used for hunting. This prohibition shall not apply to any law enforcement officer or peace officer acting in the performance of his or her official duties.
§4. Penalties Any person violating the provisions of this local law shall be guilty of a violation and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punishable by a fine of not more than $250.00 or by imprisonment for not more than fifteen (15) days, or by both such fine and imprisonment.
§5. Enforcement A. Enforcement Provisions. The Town Board, any duly-authorized enforcement officer of the Town of Hopkinton and any law enforcement officers of the Town, County and State shall, in connection with their duties imposed by law, diligently enforce the provisions of this local law. B. Ejection. The Town Board, any duly-authorized enforcement officers of the Town of Hopkinton and law enforcement officers of the Town, County and State shall have the authority to eject from Town real property any person acting in violation of this local law. C. Seizure of Property. The Town Board, any duly-authorized enforcement officers of the Town of Hopkinton and law enforcement officers of the Town, County and State shall have the power to seize and to confiscate any property, thing or device used in violation of this local law.
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Post by trappermac on Mar 14, 2012 5:14:30 GMT -5
Marshrat, if an individual owns property on that lake, meets all the criteria set forth by the DEC in regards to hunting (500 feet from dwelling, so forth), then he is in his right to hunt there. The town may have a no discharge law, but if the DEC says its ok to hunt there, then it is. State law always trumps a local ordinance. Not true. Here in the Buffalo area we have many towns with no hunting allowed and/or no discharge of firearms within town limits. One of these towns, Amherst, has a huge nuisance deer problem. But the residents will not allow hunting, even if the landowner wants it allowed. The DEC has spent a lot of time meeting with the town board to promote a controlled bowhunt, special permits to allow doe only, special classes the hunters have to take to show proficiency, etc., etc. All to no avail. The board votes it down every time. So no, the state does not trump a town ordinance. If they could, they would. Instead the state has to pay state police sharpshooters to go in there and slaughter the deer over bait piles a couple times/year. I could cite many more towns out here with ordinances aganst hunting/shooting/trapping on town lands or within town limits, trust me you won't have the state on your side if your thinking is the state rules.
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Post by herm on Mar 14, 2012 6:42:21 GMT -5
Going along with what trappermacs post says,the same can be said word for word about many towns in Monroe County that are close to the city of Rochester.
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wcs
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Post by wcs on Mar 14, 2012 8:08:26 GMT -5
There are all sorts of crazy local laws on the books all over this country. Does anyone know a person who has been arrested or cited for hunting in these towns where they have laws for no hunting? If yes, did that person attempt to fight the charge in court, or just pay the town ordinance violation of $25 or whatever it was? The local ordinances of a small town, village, or county cannot override a state law. For example, NYS says no death penalty. Can the town of Bumkin make a town ordinance saying the death penalty is legal there?
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Post by Itrapny on Mar 14, 2012 14:13:29 GMT -5
From NYSTA Executive Director Dave Miller.... Good Afternoon , I spoke with Mr. Marvin Rust, Supervisor of the Town of Hopkinton earlier this afternoon. According to Mr. Rust the newspaper articled about their town’s proposed hunting/trapping legislation was greatly exaggerated. The local bill was tabled on February 13 and will either die that way or, if necessary, be removed from the table and voted out. According to Mr. Rust no action is intended for Monday, March 19. The intent of the Town Board is simply to restrict any possible bad situations from occurring in a heavily used 24 acre public park; a place where families gather to picnic, allow children to play--- whatever people do at parks. Mr. Rust himself owns guns (shotguns, rifles and handguns) and hunts. There is no intent by the board to restrict any hunting or trapping activities anywhere other than within this small park. Mr. Rust has recently talked with an E.C.O. and now understands that the town can simply post the park just as you or I might post property that we own. Thankfully a simple solution to a small problem. With this new information in mind I think it would be unnecessary and unwise to fill the Town Hall with sportsmen on Monday evening. All that being said, and while Mr. Rust appeared to be entirely sincere as we discussed the situation, I think that it would be wise to have a couple of people (1 or 2) there if for nothing more than to thank Mr. Rust and the board for being very thoughtful in their consideration of this issue. I will be following up with an email to Mr. Rust suggesting that caution be used in any language concerning trapping within this park should the time arise when the board might need a trapper to control wildlife (raccoons or beaver maybe?).
Dave
David Miller Executive Director New York State Trappers Association Phone: (607) 522-4707 Cell: (607) 664-7161 Fax: (607) 522-3033 Email guarddn@empacc.net
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Post by herm on Mar 15, 2012 5:46:12 GMT -5
WCS,While I agree with you that a local law should not contradict or restrict a state law and the same regrading a state law applied to federal laws,a friend of mines daughter recieved a parking ticket in a town that is a suberb of Rochester for parking too far away from the curb.She took a picture of her car and fought it in town court.She was found guilty as a town law only allowed you to park six inches away from the curb[different than state law].She then had to pay the fine,surcharge and another local court charge becouse she fought the parking charge and was found guilty. I have to wonder,did the hearing start off with the usual way of saying the people of the state of NY vrs Jane Doe, or did it start off as the people of the town vrs Jane Doe?
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