austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Mar 6, 2012 21:27:38 GMT -5
8. Except as permitted by the department, no person shall set, stake or use a trap within a distance of fifteen feet from a beaver dam, den or house. My point is this: when does it cease to be a beaver "den" or "house"? The answer "forever" is not accurate. To be a den or house means it has to serve such purpose in a reasonable time past or be in reasonable condition to do so again. A pile of sticks on bone dry land that was a beaver lodge twenty years ago but now is nothing more than a pile of sticks is indeed a pile of sticks. It ain't a beaver lodge or den, it shelters nor dens any beaver at all in the past two decades. What I see here is various individuals doing their best to literally interpet a vague statement. Anything else stated or added by anybody other than those specific 28 words copied from the guidebook is subjective personal opinion. That's the problem
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Mar 6, 2012 21:53:41 GMT -5
there is a very simple solution to this discussion: permit the same rat - mink - coon traps near / at any & all beaver constructions, shelter or dams alike. neat, clean, simple, clear and resolute otherwise, for the state to make a case against every trap set at every location potentially ticketed statewide, the state must define their absolute meaning of the terms beaver "den" and "house" to the satisfaction of each judge hearing the case.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Mar 7, 2012 6:36:23 GMT -5
austinp: thank you for helping me explain my frustrations with this law as written. I don't think the DEC realizes what is gray area conflict until we point it out in diplomatic fashion. I'll be sure to add those comments on my survey sheet when received and returned. I'd guess the spirit of that rule was to prevent purposeful beaver and/or otter catches at lodge entrance or slide trapping. But that hinders a lot of good small-game trapping opportunities. Simple fix is to permit the same limited size traps near lodges as dams, and conflict solved.
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Post by mole on Mar 7, 2012 7:44:44 GMT -5
I can catch a kit beaver in a #1 on the house , where they spend most of their time and kill a Beaver dead. and a beaver is a beaver just like a beaver house is a beaver house.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Mar 7, 2012 7:58:06 GMT -5
I can catch a kit beaver in a #1 on the house , where they spend most of their time and kill a Beaver dead. and a beaver is a beaver just like a beaver house is a beaver house. likewise, I've caught and killed kit beaver in weak-springed #210s with no visible house or den in sight. as the regs are now, I setup according to my own interpretation of the definitions "house" or "den"... same as everyone else. If someone feels that an ancient beaver construction which is now a pile of sticks on dry land with no beaver present for the past ten years is a lodge, then that is their interpretation. The gray area exists with defining the terms "lodge" or "den"... any way one wants to posture it
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Post by milkie62 on Mar 7, 2012 20:47:20 GMT -5
I have no problems with the rules but when you have 2 Encon officers almost fighting over a question I posed a couple of years ago at the sportsmans show in Albany,you begin to wonder what is an innterpretation of a law ?
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Post by centro44 on Mar 7, 2012 21:29:22 GMT -5
like others stated, when does it become just a pile of rubble and what makes it a beaver hut versuses a bank den......throw a couple sticks in front of a den hole and is it now a hut? i dont see the problem with putting a mink box or weasel box on top of a beaver hut that is active/inactive......1 in a 1,000,000 chance you are taking a beaver in a mink box or weasel box
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Post by herm on Mar 8, 2012 6:13:32 GMT -5
To even take this a step further as far as knowing all the laws is the fact that laws other than ECON laws can also have an effect on how we trap.Plus the fact there are both state and federal laws that can come into play that can be a determinating factor on what we can and can not do.The oldest type of law on the books,common law,that was Crown Law before the states were formed and Roman Law before that has a major impact today as far as our rights and how we trap under certain conditions.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
|
Post by austinp on Apr 13, 2012 20:51:13 GMT -5
www.eregulations.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/11MEHD_LR.pdfblowing the dust off an old conversation: the state of Maine found it pretty simple to define what is and what is not a beaver den and a beaver dam... written right in their DNR regulations for licensees. In a nutshell, if it is breached with no fresh mud or activity, it ain't a beaver dam If it don't have mud and sticks on top, it ain't a beaver den. Dried sticks alone = not a beaver den How simple is that to define, NYSDEC? The state of Maine appears to have found a way
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