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Post by jsevering on Apr 18, 2011 7:53:19 GMT -5
On topic, does a paste lure last longer at the set than a pourable one? ........................................................................................................
yes and no... think basically your question refers more to the natural dry down time of the lure... can it be manipulated... you would think so...
think you would have to look at it partially on what part your trying to manipulate in the thread or spike flow chart or how it affects the over all body of the lure...
the intended type of use or usability and some other factors also weigh in....
was once told that the sense of smell was the most direct sense an animal has... thought hard and long on that for quite the while... olfactory memory... not that it pertains to magic in a bottle or anything to do with mixing up concoctions... but how it could be manipulated.... think lots of things are how and why you look at them or as simple and/or complex as you want to make them... is simple better... i would defiantly say sometimes... jim
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Zagman
#2 Newhouse
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Post by Zagman on Apr 18, 2011 7:57:12 GMT -5
I render down skunk fat in a crock pot.....a guy could buy one for one dollar at a garage sale.....
Dont use the wife's!
Perhaps a crock pot could be utilized for gland break down as well, in the context of AJ's input?
MZ
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 9:55:34 GMT -5
Definately think that would work Mark. Good idea and worth a try.
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Post by bballou on Apr 18, 2011 10:24:39 GMT -5
How many of you Guys remember going into a --- fur buyers---lure builders shop ---and seeing and smelling the big pot setting on the stove cooking---no matter what time of year it was. ?E.J. had one on all the time. I wonder what was in that pot ---May-be AJ made a --- re-discovery.
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Post by nightstalker1 on Apr 18, 2011 18:25:19 GMT -5
To all that have contributed....I have enjoyed following this post
Lots of interesting info.
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Post by bballou on Apr 20, 2011 20:14:46 GMT -5
Talking with Jim--about the cooking----Its turning out to be intresting-----well in thought any way-----Guys we all know good lure is built so it should remaind the same--- or get better with time----MY QUESTION IS ---what happens to all the little" BUGS " when you cook all OR portion of them. ?---- WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THE LURE-- or original product---Sure would like to hear from you guys---WHATS YOUR THOUGHTS.
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Post by jsevering on Apr 21, 2011 6:10:57 GMT -5
ed...went to your website two days ago to try to figure out who you were... seen you had 20 some odd lure formulas listed... from what i gathered you use to sell them commercially under quail valley lures back in the nineties.... nice gesture to list them, good, bad or indifferent...
welcome to the thread, always find it nice to have some new thoughts and opinions to hash around... was wondering if you could do me one small favor ... loose the red print.. find it harder to read, kinda hurts my eyes, lol.. any way's jump on in... jim
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2011 6:37:27 GMT -5
Bill,
No doubt cooked glands are totally different then aged or fresh....... it's not going to be the same as something aged 20 years.......... but, it's still very attractive to fox and completly broken down...... They still may age with "bugs" after cooked..... I have not tryed enough to give you a real answer on that.
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Post by bballou on Apr 21, 2011 14:10:42 GMT -5
AJ-------I talked with a few people about wine makeing---and lure makeing---boath said you cant stop serton things from working----"in the case of lure" becoming better--I HOPE-----So I rely dont know if the cooking will defeat what we are doing ----I am jest trying to see if I can get others--- feed back---that may have already run into this.Thank you for your time-----Jest for fun AJ ---do you think if we built racks so our lure in progress---- was tilted like wine bottles---- we would collect the settiment---in the lower end of the bottle and speed the process.
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Post by papabear on Apr 21, 2011 15:32:14 GMT -5
Mr. AJ, When breaking down glands via crock pot, I assume you leave the glands in a jar and put water in the crock pot? What amount of odor difference is there between crock cooked and non cooked glands? After crock cooking what is the consistancy of the glands? Thanks for your input.......................Mr. Zagman, great tip about rendering skunk fat in a cock pot, thanks. Regards papabear
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2011 20:19:01 GMT -5
Papa Bear, I have never used a crock pot, but I think it will work. I boil mine in a jar like you are Canning meat.
Bill......... I just dont have enough experience to answer that.......... but, I bet if you could practive cooking or boiling some meat in a jar.......... before you use real glands,,,,,, you could get a feel for it.
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Post by papabear on Apr 21, 2011 21:06:29 GMT -5
Ah-ha, the light just came on, lol. I remember my grandparents used to can meat in glass jars. Thanks for flipping the switch Mr AJ. Regards papabear
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tomsnare
It's a good time to be a trapper!
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Post by tomsnare on Apr 23, 2011 21:30:02 GMT -5
I use to bury rat glands in a jar in a 5 gallon bucket of sawdust in the fur shed for a year came out smelling as good as the day I put them in !! Got the idea from Bud Halls mink book.This year past I cut the intestine out of some catswith the "stuff"in them buried it in cat "P" added some blood to thicken it an sodium benzoiate to set the stink and set some cat traps------caught coyotes but no cats on it? Might be a little too stiff for the cats might mellow out for this season. I also had success using fishoil with skunk glands rotted then adding anise till I could just smell it------------Tom
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Post by bballou on Apr 24, 2011 6:28:30 GMT -5
Tom----What is the idea of the saw-dust? ? I havent ever heard of it---- used that way
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Post by papabear on Apr 24, 2011 6:58:16 GMT -5
Mr. Tom, your post reminded me about a jar of skunk essence sacks that I have been rotting down for over 2 years. The longer you age the essence sacks the harsh skunk odor changes to a sweeter, mellow odor. When ground a small amount added to fox /coyote glands give them a nice little kick. Regards papabear
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tomsnare
It's a good time to be a trapper!
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Post by tomsnare on Apr 24, 2011 12:07:42 GMT -5
I used the sawdust for cleaning the fur and always had it in buckets so I just use them to store "stuff", I use to bury stuff but it seems to move in the earth and I would have trouble finding it or the dogs would find it and would try to sample it!!! Me and Vic Vansteenburg made fish oil once we had several barrels cooking neighbors weren't real happy air was black with flies till the stuff calmed down, sold all of it even that grey stuff with the tangy smell. I've had a grand time trying to make my fortune in the outdoors. My thoughts on fox attractors is that fish has a very good smell with bullheads first then suckers especially oil made from suckers. One thing I used when they're were at least two trappers to every fox they would sometimes not work a hole I would take the stuff out of the anus mix with enough urine to make a paste poke some down the hole seemed to work had trappers say it wouldn't catch the reds because it was grey fox stuff.!!?--Tom
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Post by bballou on Apr 24, 2011 14:19:55 GMT -5
Thank You Sir. Ill give it a try----this fall.
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Post by bobsamuelson on Apr 26, 2011 19:45:41 GMT -5
Cooking glands will drastically change the odor and appeal of the glands. Glands contain pheromones, and the cooking process releases them, thus the glands lose one of the "active" ingredients. Cooking will also change the molecular structure of the gland material, changing the material from a glandular material to more of a base material. Also, cooking will kill any bacteria that is "working" the glands, also changing the makeup of your glands. If you are spending money on glands, let them age properly as cooking will not give you the results you are looking for! Heating urine will make it stronger, but you will also lose the pheromones that are one of the key ingredients in territorial and mating communication among K9's.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2011 4:59:48 GMT -5
So you have tried it?
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Post by papabear on Apr 27, 2011 9:37:29 GMT -5
Very good point Mr. Samuelson. I suppose cooking is a poor word to use in this case. My intentions are merely to speed up the breakdown proccess not alter the true gland odor. I am going to place the glass jar of glands into a crock pot full of water and turn it on its lowest setting, therefore not letting the water temp ever get hot enough to actually cook the glands. Im thinking by warming the glands in this manner it will enhance the bacteria growth enabeling the bacteria to break the glands down faster. Regards papabear
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Post by bobsamuelson on Apr 27, 2011 15:37:44 GMT -5
AJ, I talked to someone who deals with fox glands, and I described the conversation that is on here regarding the heating of fox glands. It is something that he considered many years ago, and because of the way it changes the glands chemical make up, he opted to grind & let age. You cannot shortcut the aging process as you come out with a very different product. Many lure makers buy aged glands from him because of the consistency of his glands. He doesn't use any glands aged less than 2 years. In fact, he is working on a new lure and the glands he is using were from a bucket dated 1997! Papabear, heating may not change the odor of the glands, however, if the temperature exceeds 160 degrees, it will kill the bacteria and thus end the aging process.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2011 16:22:16 GMT -5
Thank you Bob. I also have spoken to a few lure makers. Many age glands as you describe in the same manor for the same reasons. However, keep an open mind, and consider some lure makers never really tell there secret.
No doubt aged glands as you describe are the real deal, or what we consider the real deal. But for giggles some time bob, cook some glands down like your canning meat, just a small amount, and see what you get. It will be differrent for sure, not sure it will not work as good.
But I also know that not all gland lures are alike, alot of times in the "extra's" that make one better then the other.
Let me know if you will be at the FTA convention in Dunkirk, I can show you some cooked down glands.
AJ
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Post by mikespring on Apr 27, 2011 16:53:34 GMT -5
You can speed up the breakdown period by burying your container ( filled with fox glands) in mulch...The decomposing mulch is very warm...this works all year round. Be careful on the expansion of the glands in your container,keep lid loose to let gas escape.
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Post by flatiron on Apr 27, 2011 17:23:22 GMT -5
hey ! We can have an old fashioned smell down at the FTA ! ;D
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Post by bballou on Apr 27, 2011 17:25:36 GMT -5
Mike ---- wouldent the hose and bottle full of water ---be a better or safer way to do it ----(put the hose into the jar with the glands burry the jar ----run the hose into a bottle or jar full of water )---this will prevent most chances of the bottle with the glands blowing or becoming contaminated.
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