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Post by trapnman1 on Jul 12, 2010 14:45:26 GMT -5
Been passed. Just waiting for the governor's signature. Won't take effect for another year even if he signs it.
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Post by Itrapny on Jul 12, 2010 14:58:42 GMT -5
I'm all for it. I know many purest bowhunters are against them, but they won't be used in competition with them so I really don't see the reasoning for oppostion Just hope the Governor can see his way to sign it into law....and yes, the pun was intended
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traps82
#3 Newhouse
Hope is always alive
Posts: 3,208
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Post by traps82 on Jul 12, 2010 15:07:49 GMT -5
Wayne.... That was bad!!! ;D ;D ;D I am not happy about it, but I sure ain't going to throw stones either!! Because I sure will be eating crow ( ;D ) if I ever get one!! My pun was intended too....
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Post by flatiron on Jul 12, 2010 16:38:16 GMT -5
I haven't read the new law BUT as a purist traditional archer IT(the crossbow ) will be the deathnail to archery as we know it ! Another license fee I'm sure ! the main reason for the signing -----------more money . I've fought this thing for years , if you were for this bill --------------you sure were not an archer !
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Post by Itrapny on Jul 12, 2010 16:54:28 GMT -5
Well, that would be a very broad statement because I consider myself a sportman and will use any legal method to harvest game. The use of a crossbow is just another method to harvest game and when properly used is more effective than a longbow and easier to shot to those that don't have upper body strength. The season will be in conjunction with the muzzleloading and shotgun season which isn't in direct competition with a tradional archery season and just because it has the word bow in it, really doesn't mean it's a bow. I'd be more worried about the use of spears for harvestig game than crossbows. Of course, we all have opinions and yours is just valid as mine
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Post by trapered on Jul 12, 2010 17:59:30 GMT -5
Why would anyone use a crossbow during the gun seasons? If they want to sell more licences run it during the regular bow seasons. Start a new tradition, and maybe even a small war.
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Post by walleyed on Jul 12, 2010 19:45:03 GMT -5
I remember , not too long ago, when "Traditional" Long bow hunters and "Flint lock" muzzle loader enthusiasts were each sounding the death knell and arranging funeral dirges for their respective past times with the arrival of the compound bow and the in-line muzzleloader.
Same with scopes on black powder guns, and use of pistols as a legal hunting implement during big game season, and rifles in the southern zones and on and on.
See, the way I look at it, we are all in this thing together as consumptive users of the resource, no matter what tool we use, cause they are, in the end, just tools.
Our enjoyment and wise-use (conservation) of the resource should be of paramount importance to everyone of us.
Infighting before the DEC and the Anti-hunting, fishing,trapping juggernaut just makes us look like a foolish, unorganized, rabble of splinter groups fighting for our own selfish scrap of the pie.
While I personally, will probably never use a cross bow, I whole-heartedly support their legalization, because it puts more consumptive users of the resource into the field to keep our hunting traditional alive.
As a demographic, we hunters, all of us, are a dying breed , and unless we bolster our numbers, make no mistake about it. We will die out as a species.
Just as the compound bow did not signal the end of archery hunting as we know it. So to, the crossbow will not hurt the compound or long bow hunter over the long haul.
In life, change is inevitable, so we need to embrace it, manage it, and benefit from what it has to offer.
But, we need to stick together as it occurs.
just my two cents.
walleyed
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Post by yoteman on Jul 12, 2010 21:01:01 GMT -5
I am an archer and I am for crossbows. I probably will never use one here [NY] but feel that others should have the right to if they so desire. It is no more than an advanced compound, even if it did come first. technogoly moves ahead every day. Compare our traps of today with those forged on an anvil , or music wire springs to wrought ones. Should todays traps be kept out of trapping season solely because they are advanced and the better choice.I do't believe so. I feel all sportsmen should stick together and stand up for each others rights and not just thier own ways. Boy! if we could only get PETA members to fight each other as some hunters do, we would have it made. I feel that one of our biggest down falls is we don't have each others backs. Hunters of all sorts, trappers, fishermen must unite and become one. Otherwise that will be our death, not a crossbow.
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Post by walleyed on Jul 12, 2010 21:04:26 GMT -5
RIGHT ON, MAN.
walleyed
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Post by trapered on Jul 12, 2010 21:10:02 GMT -5
Walleyed. Very good 2cents
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Post by bigd on Jul 12, 2010 21:46:05 GMT -5
If you think about this, the anti groups could be using this type of item to break up our ranks, we as outdoors enthusiasts need to be careful. They could be using this to create caos and disrupte our freedoms.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2010 6:44:37 GMT -5
In my part of the state Deer are a nusiance. Hunters harvest very few because they are all trophy hunters.......heck, who cares what implement is used to harvest a deer, just get some deer harvested.
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Post by trappermac on Jul 13, 2010 7:00:05 GMT -5
I'm with Flatiron on this one, I've fought this legislation for years myself, its not something that promotes the sport of hunting, it's merely a way for large corporations to exploit the animals we hunt by promoting this legislation to benefit themselves. And they put into your heads the thought.."we sportsman should stick together and not fight amongst ourselves"....bullcrap, worthless words meant to get you to buy their product. A certain outdoor writer in Niagara County pushed this legislation with the corporate backing of crossbow manufacturers who also put money in politicians pockets. And like usual, we buy into their propaganda...ants marching.
Just as trapping is a heritage that we fight to protect, so are the archery seasons that our forefathers worked so hard for and were told back then all the pitfalls of archery, but they fought and got us the seasons we now enjoy. And for us to allow the crossbow into the archery seasons is turning our backs on the work they did. Would you do that with trapping?
Yeah, the legislation says that this year (for now) they will only be allowed during the regular season, but we all know how that goes. Money, money, money.....will dictate future moves. They will allow a weapon that is cocked and held back by a mechanism, then shot by pulling a trigger. A gun in essence. Also another great tool for the poacher, lethal, shoots long distances, and best of all is super quiet. Great tool to allow in this state.
It's all in the name of money, if we allow this we allow all future decisions made, including trapping, to be made based upon what sells, what puts money in politicians pockets, in corporate pockets, it's selling out. Like Flatiron, I use a longbow or recurve to hunt, I can't imagine the same woods now with crossbow shooters. It won't be the same, it ruins the aesthetics of the hunt and the value of woodsmanship. Why not just stay home and shoot deer on a video game, it's the same thing. Drive thru society that doesn't want to work for their deer, they want it easy. Pathetic.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2010 7:04:25 GMT -5
Hey trapper Mac, for ever 3 deer killed with a bow, 1 gets wounded and gut shot and dies in the weeds. And I don't need you to agree or disagree with that as I know that to be fact, found all to many of them. So don't preach that archers are some kind of sacred hunters.
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Post by fingerlakesfur on Jul 13, 2010 7:12:06 GMT -5
I agree with AJ...just another method to kill deer...needs to be done
Trophy hunters have only themselves to blame
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Post by steinea286 on Jul 13, 2010 7:23:40 GMT -5
Here is my thought and .02! How many more people are going to go out and buy a license just because they can use a cross bow? I really don't see how they (the state) is going to make more money by adding this weapon into a season, esp when you can already use a gun. Bowhunters can use bows during gun season. My whole thought is that if they are trying to gain revenue, then they need SPORTSMEN, not just a new weapon.
I am also against crossbows for the most part. I am understanding both parts, but a cross bow is basically a short ranged gun! All you have to do is pull the trigger....
Also with that being said, how is this going to effect the number of deer taken ILLEGALLY?! You can shoot fairly far and silently straight from a car! Just my thoughts...
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Post by trappermac on Jul 13, 2010 8:53:17 GMT -5
Hey trapper Mac, for ever 3 deer killed with a bow, 1 gets wounded and gut shot and dies in the weeds. And I don't need you to agree or disagree with that as I know that to be fact, found all to many of them. So don't preach that archers are some kind of sacred hunters. Because you found so many of them, so its fact. Ok. There are unethical hunters, those that take poor shots or don't practice the art enough. I don't deny that, nor claim anything sacred about bowhunters. Personally, I see more blood and gore during gun season. I certainly won't win an argument against those who feel that deer are a nuisiance, "who cares what implement, just get them harvested".....what a lack of respect for wildlife.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2010 8:55:45 GMT -5
I'm sorry if my post seemed harsh Trapper Mac, deer hunting is something that should never be discussed by friends, much like politics and religion.
AJ
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Post by walleyed on Jul 13, 2010 9:18:27 GMT -5
State government can only legislate rules and regulations. They can not legislate ethics, aesthetics, morality, or deviate human behavior.
Anyone in New York, can now, as we speak, own or possess a crossbow within state borders.
Only the act of possessing or using a cross bow WHILE AFIELD, is prima facie evidence of illegal activity.
Any weapon, tool, or method can be mis-used in the commission of illegal act in violation of Fish and wildlife regulations.
A fish and wildlife law violator has a host of possible methods with which to break the law.
Creating another season so one can legally use another tool for the management and conservation of our big game resource and expand recreational opportunities while helping to more effectively control the deer herd is a win win for both the sportsmen and wildlife managers.
If you break the law, you break the law. The tool or method makes no difference in the eyes of law enforcement as once you have commited the first illegal act, each and every subsequent act becomes illegal as well. A poacher is a poacher, who steals from every sportsman. Weapon, tool, or methodology have nothing to do with it.
As for one being able to just pick up a crossbow out of the box and start stopping, popping, and dropping piles of trophy bucks, and wiping the woods clean, well, that is just laughable. ANY tool requires practice, in order to become efficient and effective in it's use.
As for the use of a certain hunting TOOL being pathetic, ruining woodsmanship, and spoiling the aesthetics of the bow hunting woods...well, that too is in the eye of the beholder. Nobody can force you to use a certain hunting tool.
Our woodmanship skills, and our ethics are exactly that. OURS.
It's an issue of personal preference and everyone is entitled to their own choice. Nobody has the right to ram their personal ethics down another sportsman's throat.
Anyone who does not choose to use the crossbow as a hunting tool is free to choose their own way. This, and the fact that in-fighting between fellow sportsmen is counter productive and solves nothing.
Since a crossbow season looks to be inevitable, this is seeming more and more akin to locking the barn door after the horse has run off.
I personally, don't receive a dime from cross bow manufacturers, don't ever plan on using one, but wouldn't feel a bit intimidated or cheated if I saw a fellow hunter carrying a crossbow into the same public land woods into which I carry my compound. ( pending future legislation of course)
I used to carry a recurve into the woods and have been bow- hunting since 1980. To each is own I say, and live and let live, and If we don't hang together, we will most assuredly, all hang separately.
my two (2) cents again !!
walleyed
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Post by rufus on Jul 13, 2010 9:41:58 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more with Trappermac, I know this is very polarizing issue and I think he put it very well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2010 10:08:17 GMT -5
Hey trapper Mac, for ever 3 deer killed with a bow, 1 gets wounded and gut shot and dies in the weeds. And I don't need you to agree or disagree with that as I know that to be fact, found all to many of them. So don't preach that archers are some kind of sacred hunters. I certainly won't win an argument against those who feel that deer are a nuisiance, "who cares what implement, just get them harvested".....what a lack of respect for wildlife. Lack of respect for wildlife? Give me a break. Weather you harvest a animal with a bow or cross bow, you think there is any difference? Have you pureist archers don't even own any amount of land. When you plant $10,000 worth of blueberries or orchards and some friggin deer damages $8,000 worth of it you come talk to me......... Until then you guys should get your head out of your ass....... Archers are no greater or deserve no more special treatment then any other sportsmen in NY.
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Post by trapnman1 on Jul 13, 2010 10:53:31 GMT -5
I'm getting a kick out of watching the " bowhunting purists" squirm for a change! AJ is dead on. By the way, please take a second and look up the word " weapon" in the dictionary. A weapon can ONLY be used on a person. If we instructors ever used that word in one of our classes we would get our a-- reamed. We hunters are a management tool of this state, who freikin' cares what we use to lower the deer population? How come 40 states use crossbows, yet the hunters actually can work together instead of bicker about trivial issues? I am not too proud of these bowhunting crybabies. When will they give up their compounds, and go traditional? That means spears and pits.
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Post by outdoorsguy19 on Jul 13, 2010 11:14:43 GMT -5
its the year 2010 we should be able to hunt with what ever we want. if we have to pay to hunt everything then we should have the right to use anything we want .
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Zagman
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,186
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Post by Zagman on Jul 13, 2010 11:22:52 GMT -5
Will using crossbows help in getting an earlier canine season opener? MZ
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Post by fingerlakesfur on Jul 13, 2010 11:37:13 GMT -5
maybe if bowhunters killed a few deer...there wouldn't be a need for crossbows.
Last year is the first year I didn't bowhunt since 1978...just like flyfishing purists have ruined the sport.
I resent that comment about "lack of respect for wildlife" WTF is that supposed to mean? Only bowhunters can kill a deer with integrity...what a bunch of BS coming from a trapper.
Deer need to be harvested like any other pest. If a landowner or lease owner wants to farm their own trophies...fine....everyone that buys a license should be able to fill a tag with any deer with any weapon allowed by law.
Unfortunetly..if quotas aren't met, I think you'll see longer deer seasons.
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