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Post by walleyed on Jul 16, 2015 7:24:28 GMT -5
An Article in this morning's Watertown newspaper mentioned a Draft plan for commenting on Re-Introduction of Wolf and Mountain Lion to the Adirondacks among other species.
I can't seem get this forum to accept any link to the plan which is featured on the DEC website which is entitled: "Public comments Due for the Draft 2015 State Wildlife Action Plan."
The comment period for this draft plan ends THIS Friday, July 17th.
We Might want to read up on this and Issue a brief comment by Friday.
walleyed
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tmc
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,447
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Post by tmc on Jul 16, 2015 8:04:26 GMT -5
www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7179.htmlemail to SWAPcomments@dec.ny.gov How interesting that the "wilderness group" calling for the reintroduction is called Protect the Adirondacks.
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wcs
Posts: 1,159
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Post by wcs on Jul 16, 2015 10:51:35 GMT -5
Which heading discusses the introduction of wolves and lions?
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Post by bobsheedy on Jul 16, 2015 12:56:59 GMT -5
Which heading discusses the introduction of wolves and lions? 2X They're stoning us with cottonballs.
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Post by REDNECK on Jul 16, 2015 16:44:12 GMT -5
Man this is getting crazy im cool with bear but I draw the line at them big cats out there and we all know what will fallow for the boys and girls who hunt fish trap there the will get the big one glad we all are grouping up more to keep what we have and thank you big guy for putting this out there
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Post by walleyed on Jul 16, 2015 16:51:16 GMT -5
Which heading discusses the introduction of wolves and lions? 2X They're stoning us with cottonballs. It's on Page #3 of 25 entitled: "Selection process of New York State (Mammals) Species of Greatest Conservation Need" (CWCS) within the "2005 Comprehensive Wildlife Conservation Plan under the PFD file entitled: "Species Selection Information" It's buried but when you read it, you realize that they are planning the future Re-Introduction of LYNX, Eastern Grey Wolf, and Eastern Cougar which will eventually include all sorts of Future Trapping restrictions for trappers, just Like Maine is experiencing right now with Lynx. Just look what they are writing about River Otter and American Marten and you will realize that DEC is planning on "Screwing The Pooch" for Trappers and Trapping. It definitely Bears watching, and a comment. Just reading the first three Pages of the "Species Selection Information" PDF should send chills down the spine of any Adirondack trapper. w
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Post by Adirondack-Jim on Jul 16, 2015 20:20:32 GMT -5
Someone please tell me it's April first already...
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Post by slyfox74 on Jul 16, 2015 20:28:36 GMT -5
Walleyed, I agree that the reintroduction of these species will probably lead to further trapping restrictions. However, I am torn on this issue. The Wolf, Lynx and Mountain Lion were all at one time, native to the ADK's. The predatory nature of these animals also means that eventually someone or someone's dog is going to be hurt, probably only after the deer herd suffers and the snowshoe hare takes a beating. I can't help but wonder if this will actually be a good thing in a "down the road" manner of thinking. Will NYS residents eventually be able to trap Lynx, Wolves and Mountain Lions? How many Yorkshire Terriers, Pugs and House Cats will it take before the tree huggers start respecting us trappers? Once a couple of granola munching hikers get mauled it's quite possible that the Yuppies in the ADK's will come running to the NYSTA for help. I wonder if in the long run this will actually be better for NYS Trapping. It's likely that I'm wrong about this, It's probably more than likely that you're correct and this will just place further restrictions on trappers here in NY, and the DEC will use these reintroduced animals as a reason. But maybe not? Is that logical or am I way off base?
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Post by walleyed on Jul 16, 2015 20:47:30 GMT -5
Walleyed, I agree that the reintroduction of these species will probably lead to further trapping restrictions. However, I am torn on this issue. The Wolf, Lynx and Mountain Lion were all at one time, native to the ADK's. The predatory nature of these animals also means that eventually someone or someone's dog is going to be hurt, probably only after the deer herd suffers and the snowshoe hare takes a beating. I can't help but wonder if this will actually be a good thing in a "down the road" manner of thinking. Will NYS residents eventually be able to trap Lynx, Wolves and Mountain Lions? How many Yorkshire Terriers, Pugs and House Cats will it take before the tree huggers start respecting us trappers? Once a couple of granola munching hikers get mauled it's quite possible that the Yuppies in the ADK's will come running to the NYSTA for help. I wonder if in the long run this will actually be better for NYS Trapping. It's likely that I'm wrong about this, It's probably more than likely that you're correct and this will just place further restrictions on trappers here in NY, and the DEC will use these reintroduced animals as a reason. But maybe not? Is that logical or am I way off base? Anything is possible, slyfox. Who knows what is coming down the road. I simply wanted to give people a heads up, along with my paranoid opinion about possible DEC plans Ram-rodded by the FEDS at the USFWS. I know the people of Maine, or Arizona, or New Mexico wouldn't find it far fetched with Red Wolf Re-Introductions, or the Canadian Lynx jumping the Border into Northern Maine. w
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Post by walleyed on Jul 16, 2015 20:50:32 GMT -5
Someone please tell me it's April first already... Sorry Jimbo, It's NOT April Fools Day, unfortunately. It's NIGHTMARE on Adirondack Street !! w
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Post by SawmillCreek on Jul 17, 2015 14:17:01 GMT -5
Just SSS!
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Post by amacduff on Jul 17, 2015 16:49:41 GMT -5
Hi Folks,
Andy MacDuff here.
Bob has referenced the 2005 SGCN list/plan. DEC is taking comments on the 2015 revised SGCN list/plan. The links to this proposed, draft document and species lists are at the top of the page that the link was provided for. Based on the comments I've read here so far, I'd suggest you read the correct documents. And by all means, provide a comment.
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Post by squash on Jul 17, 2015 17:27:04 GMT -5
Yes, there are about 1000 moose now in the Adirondacks, so we need to release something there to eat them.
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Post by papabear on Jul 17, 2015 18:14:34 GMT -5
Dear Friends, If such is the case, I would certainly hope that habitat integrity evaluation and enhancement is a priority before turning these beasts loose! I say that because there has been a significant increase in the bear population here in northwestern Montgomery and southwestern Fulton county over the past couple of years. I suspect the bears are migrating from the north woods down here into the Mohawk valley to keep from starving to death. Regards
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Post by bobsheedy on Jul 17, 2015 18:42:38 GMT -5
The last paragraph on page 33 made passinng reference to the lynx, wolf, and cougar.
"The gray wolf, Canada lynx, and Eastern cougar are species historically present in New York but extirpated because of unregulated harvest and habitat change. Current habitat conditions in New York may support the occurrence of gray wolf and cougar, but the social acceptability of doing so must be assessed first. Their listing as SGCN will facilitate that evaluation. Canada lynx may eventually expand to parts of New York from Canada or adjoining states, and if documented, they will need careful monitoring and management. The Algonquin population of gray wolves presently ranges 50 miles north of New York’s border with Canada. Biologists have already documented the movement of large mammals like moose across this divide in recent years (A. Hicks, personal communication, September 23, 2005)."
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Post by squash on Jul 18, 2015 7:03:46 GMT -5
Dear Friends, If such is the case, I would certainly hope that habitat integrity evaluation and enhancement is a priority before turning these beasts loose! I say that because there has been a significant increase in the bear population here in northwestern Montgomery and southwestern Fulton county over the past couple of years. I suspect the bears are migrating from the north woods down here into the Mohawk valley to keep from starving to death. Regards Papa bear, I don't know about Montgomery and Fulton county, but the bear migrated to Tug Hill from the Adirondacks in the back of a DEC pick up. Squash
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Post by slyfox74 on Jul 18, 2015 15:08:51 GMT -5
Squash, I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. Bears were always on Tug Hill, look in any of the old camp log books even back in the 30's and 40's and you'll read about bears being killed. Ft. Drum area, also has always had bears. Additionally, isn't Tug Hill considered Adirondack foothills? Maybe the DEC has relocated some bears to the Tug from time to time b ut I have a tough time believing that bears are there because the DEC put them there.
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tmc
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,447
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Post by tmc on Jul 18, 2015 20:58:20 GMT -5
I remember when I was a kid, after church on Sundays my Dad would always buy one Utica and one Syracuse Sunday newspaper. There was a section in the Syracuse Herald American that had a column, "Lowe Down," by a fella last name of Lowe. He frequently wrote about Tug Hill, and that was what kindled my fascination of and love for all things Tug ever since. And, at least 5 or 6 times a year he'd write about stories of the old timers and their bear hunting adventures on Tug Hill. I haven't seen a copy of Herald American (or whatever it's actual name was/is) since at least 1980 or so. My point is, bear were everywhere once upon a time, just ask Goldilocks.
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Post by squash on Jul 18, 2015 21:15:37 GMT -5
Squash, I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. Bears were always on Tug Hill, look in any of the old camp log books even back in the 30's and 40's and you'll read about bears being killed. Ft. Drum area, also has always had bears. Additionally, isn't Tug Hill considered Adirondack foothills? Maybe the DEC has relocated some bears to the Tug from time to time b ut I have a tough time believing that bears are there because the DEC put them there. Sly fox, you are incorrect, bears have not always been present on Tug Hill. Bears were plentiful on Tug Hill over 100years ago, but they were pretty well extirpated from Tug Hill by the 30's . Heck according to the NY Fish and Game Commission report for 1901 &02 there weren't any Whitetails on Tug Hill at that time. So along with B Bears, Whitetails were not always present on Tug Hill as well. Read most any book on the history of the first European settlers that inhabited Tug Hill and they explain how and why they wiped out the Bears. The Black Bear resurgence in the core of the plateau is a recent event. I've lived and worked as a Logger and Forester on and in the core of the plateau my whole life, and it's only been the last 10 - 15 years that I've encountered Bears and there sign in the core areas of the Plateau. On the peripheral areas of Tug Hill bears may have wandered in from the Adirondacks, but DEC biologists have admitted to me that they have relocated problem Adirondack bears to the core of the hill. Just like the Otter and Fisher may have been present in SW NY years ago, their recent migration has been aided by a DEC pick up. Also, the Tug Hill Plateau is not the ADK foothills, Tug Hill is a bisected plateau and is a separate geological and geographical area. And Ft Drum is in the St Lawerence valley, not part of Tug Hill.
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Post by slyfox74 on Jul 18, 2015 21:57:43 GMT -5
Squash, I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. Bears were always on Tug Hill, look in any of the old camp log books even back in the 30's and 40's and you'll read about bears being killed. Ft. Drum area, also has always had bears. Additionally, isn't Tug Hill considered Adirondack foothills? Maybe the DEC has relocated some bears to the Tug from time to time b ut I have a tough time believing that bears are there because the DEC put them there. Sly fox, you are incorrect, bears have not always been present on Tug Hill. Bears were plentiful on Tug Hill over 100years ago, but they were pretty well extirpated from Tug Hill by the 30's . Heck according to the NY Fish and Game Commission report for 1901 &02 there weren't any Whitetails on Tug Hill at that time. So along with B Bears, Whitetails were not always present on Tug Hill as well. Read most any book on the history of the first European settlers that inhabited Tug Hill and they explain how and why they wiped out the Bears. The Black Bear resurgence in the core of the plateau is a recent event. I've lived and worked as a Logger and Forester on and in the core of the plateau my whole life, and it's only been the last 10 - 15 years that I've encountered Bears and there sign in the core areas of the Plateau. On the peripheral areas of Tug Hill bears may have wandered in from the Adirondacks, but DEC biologists have admitted to me that they have relocated problem Adirondack bears to the core of the hill. Just like the Otter and Fisher may have been present in SW NY years ago, their recent migration has been aided by a DEC pick up. Also, the Tug Hill Plateau is not the ADK foothills, Tug Hill is a bisected plateau and is a separate geological and geographical area. And Ft Drum is in the St Lawerence valley, not part of Tug Hill. OK, good to know. Thank you
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Post by milkie62 on Jul 24, 2015 23:10:29 GMT -5
Yes, there are about 1000 moose now in the Adirondacks, so we need to release something there to eat them. Well I guess bringing in lions & wolves other than what might migrate on its own will probably slow down an increasing Moose population.
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