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Post by herm on Mar 22, 2015 10:09:36 GMT -5
I recently attended to meetings where I talked about the Fisher Plan and the need to send commits. What I found at both groups was a lack of confidence that sending in a commit will have any effect in what the plan will turn out to be. Both groups it seems feel there is a real disconnect between sportsmen and the DEC as far as managing game other than deer .One group that doesn't want the fishers overly protected pretty much felt that if the DEC overly protects them they will manage the fishers themselves such as the "Three S" management system. I left this meeting sure that no one would bother to send in a commit. The other group also lacking any faith that sending in a commit would do any good and not having much of an opinion one way or the other at least sent in a commit as an org. opposing the plan along the lines of the JTI points.
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Post by chappy on Mar 22, 2015 10:32:33 GMT -5
This has been the same with many trappers that I have spoke with. No one has confidence in DEC that they will address the wants and needs of the sportsman.
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Post by squash on Mar 22, 2015 14:12:49 GMT -5
Although I did send in a comment, I have to agree with the group that believes we have little input.
A few years ago I was a member of the East Branch Fish Creek Working Group. This group was comprised of Landowners, Sportsmen, forest Industry people, snowmobile enthusiasts, and others who were supposed to have some input on the Conservation Easement that the Nature Conservency was going to sell NYS on 45,000 acres of former Paper Co Land on Tug Hill.
It was and still is a sham, at public meetings DEC and TNC officials, led us to think we had some input, but behind closed doors with the investors that purchased the encumbered property From TNC, the DEC and TNC did what they wanted.
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Post by Itrapny on Mar 22, 2015 19:38:45 GMT -5
This is VERY FAR from the truth....in fact, if it weren't for comments submitted BY sportsmen/women on the bobcat management plan, we most likely wouldn't have the expanded season we do now. You can FOIL the comments and if you did, you would have seen that the DEC took into consideration the comments from everyone and they went back and changed the original plan based upon public comment.
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Post by papabear on Mar 22, 2015 21:34:41 GMT -5
I recently attended to meetings where I talked about the Fisher Plan and the need to send commits. What I found at both groups was a lack of confidence that sending in a commit will have any effect in what the plan will turn out to be. Both groups it seems feel there is a real disconnect between sportsmen and the DEC as far as managing game other than deer .One group that doesn't want the fishers overly protected pretty much felt that if the DEC overly protects them they will manage the fishers themselves such as the "Three S" management system. I left this meeting sure that no one would bother to send in a commit. The other group also lacking any faith that sending in a commit would do any good and not having much of an opinion one way or the other at least sent in a commit as an org. opposing the plan along the lines of the JTI points. De Dear Friend, All the more reason to stay focused and commited to submitting constructive comments! Im as frustrated and discusted, at times, as anyone else here, but I also realize that the DEC has to do what they think needs to be done in the best interests of preserving wildlife populations. My concerns and disagreemnt come about when the conclusion they arrive at is not entirely and completely thought out or not based on factual research and information and the result is unwarranted regulation and further restrictions. One can dis~trust the DEC all they want, however the fact remains that they are the folks we have to deal with. I would think dealing with them wisely would be more to our advantage than being arrogant and hostile and have them completely ignore or concerns and input altogether. In the ~Fisher Study~ DEC included a phrase "in areas of Sustaining Habitat" that really caught my attention and got me thinking. At first my initial reaction was what kinda of crap are they going to try and pull using that phrase. After a lot of thought (and giving some benefit of doubt) I started thinking that perhaps this is DEC's way of admitting that they know and realize theres a habitat issue in Adirondacks. After all they to must adhere to the Forever Wild law (even though I believe they should be allowed to mantain habitat for wildlife). The Forever Wild Law places great emphasis on preservation of forests and watersheds and mentions little about the wildlife contained within it. In another post I stated that DEC is trending towards more of a preservationist mentallity and less towards conservation. I strongly believe that statement. Now take into concideration all the groups out there (hikers, bikers, bird watchers, tree huggers animal rights, and on and on) the shear numbers of them submitting thier comments comapered to a few hunters and trappers. Stands to reason why DEC thinks the way they do. The old saying goes.. the squeaky wheel gets the grease Therefore it is vitally important that all sportsmen make it a point, there duty, irregardless how little value they think there input has, to take time to submit a responce to matters that pertain to all our rights to trapping, hunting and fishing. Regards
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Post by squash on Mar 23, 2015 8:22:34 GMT -5
This is VERY FAR from the truth....in fact, if it weren't for comments submitted BY sportsmen/women on the bobcat management plan, we most likely wouldn't have the expanded season we do now. You can FOIL the comments and if you did, you would have seen that the DEC took into consideration the comments from everyone and they went back and changed the original plan based upon public comment. Time will tell.
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Post by chappy on Mar 23, 2015 9:56:26 GMT -5
This is not "very far" from the truth. The expansion of some species occur without the assistance of DEC, and for variables out of their control. We the trappers holler for years but until the study is complete nothing happens. This is at the expense of tax payers and years lost on the trapline. I have posted this once and will do so again. A senior DEC biologist stated,"before I retire I want to see limits on fishers". And since this without limits fisher have done nothing but expand across the state. This occurred some years back in Region 3. We are not in the plan for limits in this Region, but if this current plan is put in place it will only be a matter of time. It appears all it takes is a lower harvest for whatever reason!!! On the other hand I would feel guilty if I didn't give thanks to those within the department that put in the hard work and pursue with honesty the best for our State and all its inhabitants. Not just the 2 legged political nonconsumptive types!!! Do we have friends in DEC I'm sure a few....very few.
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Post by fisherman on Mar 23, 2015 10:29:47 GMT -5
Unfortunately there are some within DEC that get cocklemany ideas in their heads. The closure of the Mohawk Valley and Catskills otter season is a prime example. Not within DEC, but within ESF remember the bright idea of restocking Yukon lynx into the high peaks where there was no food? Thank God that was a failure or we would be facing the same situation as Maine is today.Where do these guys get these ideas? On the other hand, I also know that there are many fine, dedicated wildlife biologists within DEC. On many points we disagree, but we still respect one another. Sadly, the higher in DEC one goes, the more political the jobs. As dedicated as these biologists may be, they still have to think of their jobs. In regard to Chappy's comments I would note that when the Catskill season was finally opened, after restocking, there were NO QUOTAS and the season was full length as elsewhere in the state.That population thrived and today represents 30% of the state's catch.Therefore I have to ask,is there a population large enough to sustain itself in the new areas or is there not? I can understand taking the careful approach, particularly after the failure on the part of DEC "managing" the fisher population in the Adirondacks to the point, by their own words, that the "population is no longer able to sustain itself". HELLO! Where have these guys been? That did not happen over night. In the past DEC has listened to the trappers and made corrective changes.Todate that has not been the case with the fisher management plan. We, the public, have had no choice, but to make comments, and hopefully will cause DEC to make changes. Perhaps it is only my wishful thinking, but I still have faith that DEC will come to the table with JTI as a result of our comments, and together we can formulate a sound, sensible fisher plan. As was stated above, only time will tell.
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Post by chappy on Mar 23, 2015 16:01:33 GMT -5
Thanks Al to you and all on the JTI, I know your are looking out for our interests.
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Post by erict on Mar 23, 2015 21:27:41 GMT -5
I sent constructive comments to DEC and didn't even get a acknowledgement of my response. Is it that hard nowadays to automatically reply to e-mails so that the senders are reassured that your comment was received? I'll keep my fingers crossed but I just don't get that warm and fuzzy feeling about this process at this point.
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Post by silverfox on Mar 24, 2015 4:09:14 GMT -5
can anyone confirm if there will be any kind of report stating how many comments they did receive or if that data is even recorded or reported
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Post by johnrockwood on Mar 24, 2015 7:10:47 GMT -5
I would expect that either by law or by policy, the Department would be required to respond to the comments. If it is indeed a similar process to the public comment process of the State Register, there will be a statement issued addressing the comments, probably on the DEC website. It will be a blanket response to each similar comment, not an individual response to everyone who commented. I would assume that the response was pretty much already written before the end of the comment period, maybe even before it began, as the Department was aware of the position NYSTA held on most points of the plan months ago and they know how the preservationist/anti types are going to respond. This plan still has to go to the State Register for public comment before any changes in the regulations can be implemented. The process to publish this plan has been held back so long, they are running out of time if they wish to make changes before the 2015-2016 trapping season. The 2015-2016 Hunting & Trapping syllabus must go to print soon and this plan creates major changes that must be in the syllabus. This plan must go to the State Register soon or be readdressed next year. We are all now waiting to see what happens next..............
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Post by whartonrattrapper on Mar 24, 2015 7:39:13 GMT -5
This plan must go to the State Register soon or be readdressed next year. We are all now waiting to see what happens next.............. By readdressed do you mean the process starts over again?
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Post by johnrockwood on Mar 24, 2015 7:53:00 GMT -5
If it is too late to address in the State Register this year and still get regulation changes into the syllabus for the upcoming 2015-2016 seasons, the State Register process could be postponed. There will be a rush to get through this process if there is still time to make the changes this year. I do not believe they will go through the process via the DEC website/comment period again but none of us can know for sure. We didn't think they would propose a 9 day season with a bag limit of one either.
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Post by chappy on Mar 25, 2015 7:45:03 GMT -5
Anyone for side bets that if DEC wants to make a statement to NYSTA they will impose them as emergency regs??
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