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Post by chappy on Feb 24, 2015 13:05:31 GMT -5
Any idea as to what the proposed, sweeping changes are? Zagman I've seen several different worthless crap proposals, such as blackpowder hunts between archery and firearms for does only, or both sexes, etc. Basically a bunch of stupid ideas dreamt up by non-hunting decision makers that seems to be prevalent in the trapping arena, too NYS has lost its ability to "control" deer populations mostly due to land access, and by that I don't mean deer leases. All the big farms and orchards now are posted so tight you need to turn sideways just to squeeze between their signs. Meanwhile, DED hands out unlimited nuisance permits to be filled any way they please in late summer. Come down here in the southern tier, knock on farmer's doors and ask them permission to deer hunt. If you find one who will say yes, it's a miracle, Completely agree.....if the landowner is not going to allow access why should he be able to shoot hundreds for nuisance??? Yes, Hundreds there are farms that shoot hundreds!!!!
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Feb 24, 2015 13:19:10 GMT -5
What I have seen happening here in the SZ are more and more hunters are going after that big trophy buck to hang on the wall and tell story's about how they got it and could care less about filling the freezer.back in the sixties and seventies we had hunting parties of 10 to 30 guys and would put on drives and fill everyone's doe permit in one day now you never hear anyone doing drives like that you might get 4 or 5 guys together but they just set in stands all the time and never move the deer around.Use to sound like a war zone on opening day now you might hear 5 or 6 shots all day.you can also see deer in numbers of 10 to 30 at a time eating in farmers fields during the season.Maybe a shortened season would bring back the big drives of old,but probably not because all marketing is base on getting that big Trophy buck not to fill the freezer. the game has changed. you cannot find enough private land to put on a deer drive for one whole hour, let alone a continuous day. Hunters are after quality now because the days of mass quantity are long gone. If you get permission on a 50-acre stretch with several other guys, there is no room to walk around anywhere kirkwooder, if the farm you reference is who I think it is, they control several thousand acres with more added all the time. Many of the large dairy and crop operations have a zero-tolerance policy for deer, even though migratinbg crows and starlings consume more corn in one week than their deer herds to in an entire year.
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Post by flatiron on Feb 24, 2015 13:41:48 GMT -5
I truly believe one detriment to the deer population has been trophy hunting. In this area hunters will hunt until the last few days of muzzle loader season to fill any dmp tags.There is also those that fill every tag possible even having private money contests for who kills the most deer in a season .
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Post by saquelie on Feb 24, 2015 13:43:42 GMT -5
Sounds like you guys have to many deer in the south, maybe Dec will help ya all out and release some wolfs for you all. HaHa
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Feb 24, 2015 13:48:49 GMT -5
they already released cougars here years ago... ask any local hillbilly about that in August or September.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Feb 24, 2015 13:51:44 GMT -5
Von the deer herd ain't what it used to be on public lands, while the private ground is all sewn up and locked out. That's the real problem... sufficient access to deer. Crowds of hunters still flock to Hi-Tor, Honeyoe, Rattlesnake Hill, Letchworth Park, etc but the former numbers of deer aren't there. Guys pay $100+ for a sportsman license, go out a few times and see nothing, quit for the year. Or longer.
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Post by Lonny Mattison on Feb 24, 2015 13:59:03 GMT -5
1 week bow 1 week muzzle. Gun month of November. six week bow, two week firearms, no need for special blackpowder with today's modern technology there. Done by Dec 1st NAH..Now you opened it up. I am not a against bow, just not too big on the idea. I think bow is too long as it is. People get all riled up when we smnall game hunt during their "precious"" bow season.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Feb 24, 2015 14:02:41 GMT -5
Lonny, I'll be in the water from 10/25 this fall onwards, self-medicating my muskrat obsession. Whatever else will be, will be
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Post by kirkwooder on Feb 24, 2015 14:13:12 GMT -5
kirkwooder, if the farm you reference is who I think it is, they control several thousand acres with more added all the time. Many of the large dairy and crop operations have a zero-tolerance policy for deer, even though migratinbg crows and starlings consume more corn in one week than their deer herds to in an entire year. I speak of more than one, but I'm sure you know all of them.
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Post by bobsamuelson on Feb 24, 2015 14:48:39 GMT -5
Deer season runs for 68 days! That is from the opening of archery to the end of muzzle loader. My feeling is run it the month of November! Use what ever weapon is legal and fill your freezer! Donate to a needy family in your community if your freezer isn't large enough! ( There are churches around me that will distribute cut and packaged venison to their parishioners !)
Antler hunting goes contrary to the principles of wildlife management! Unfortunately, too many "hunters " want to brag about the rack on the wall!
Because of the poor way the DEC has handled the deer herd, they keep giving out more and more doe tags that do not get filled! I bought my hunting license and because of the now combined big game/small game license I got 3 doe tags! I couldn't give them away! The reality of game management is vastly different from what is presented on TV!
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Post by flatiron on Feb 24, 2015 15:27:01 GMT -5
I hunted with a bow since old enough to do so but haven't the last few years . I still shoot a recurve or longbow year round .yes ,the archery season is too long too. There was no need to open Oct.1 , any decent archer / hunter should be able to harvest a deer in 3 weeks .
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Post by trappermac on Feb 24, 2015 15:52:42 GMT -5
Make the bow season longer, more opportunity for fisher sightings.....
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Post by mb650 on Feb 24, 2015 16:00:27 GMT -5
Oh boy, another deer hunting topic. Just don't no where to start . Well for one imo deer season is to long bow,gun,etc. As it was mention one other time seasons so long the hunter thinks well I got next weekend and on and on . Mean while if season wasn't so long it'd get there butt out there and hunt. Plus I love how everybody knows all about farmers just being able to blaze deer all yr . FACT: you can't!!!!!!! I have permits we get 3 tags for April to sept , Plus 4 extra tags guns season. That's not doing anything to 1200 acres!!!!! And for all the ones whining about the farmers having them ,try asking one to hunt or maybe do alittle farm work for them! TV is your wrost enemy ,not your so called farmer with there 7extra permits! Try blaming Lee@Tiffiny they've pumped every knot head believing trophy Bucks only .
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Post by mikespring on Feb 24, 2015 16:14:54 GMT -5
I like the deer season the way its set-up now.
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Post by mb650 on Feb 24, 2015 16:22:52 GMT -5
I alway love how something deer hunting ,deer population and antler restriction comes up on this forum and this place comes unglue with Opinions . Mean while if someone ask what would be a good distance for a trap on a post set and you get a very few replies and the tophic gets wash away.
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Post by bobsamuelson on Feb 24, 2015 16:38:00 GMT -5
When is the last time you went deer hunting, Mike?
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Post by mikespring on Feb 24, 2015 16:39:56 GMT -5
deer hunted all season this year Bob...Why?
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tmc
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,447
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Post by tmc on Feb 24, 2015 17:52:31 GMT -5
I've seen several different worthless crap proposals, such as blackpowder hunts between archery and firearms for does only, or both sexes, etc. Basically a bunch of stupid ideas dreamt up by non-hunting decision makers that seems to be prevalent in the trapping arena, too NYS has lost its ability to "control" deer populations mostly due to land access, and by that I don't mean deer leases. All the big farms and orchards now are posted so tight you need to turn sideways just to squeeze between their signs. Meanwhile, DED hands out unlimited nuisance permits to be filled any way they please in late summer. Come down here in the southern tier, knock on farmer's doors and ask them permission to deer hunt. If you find one who will say yes, it's a miracle, Completely agree.....if the landowner is not going to allow access why should he be able to shoot hundreds for nuisance??? Yes, Hundreds there are farms that shoot hundreds!!!! Because they need to control access to their lands. THEIR... LANDS... MAYBE, if YOU'D had decades-long problems with irresponsible people, trespassers or not, hunters or not (and PLENTY are tree-hugging anti's who think we're "evil" for owning land - "No one 'OWNS' land, mister!" is a common retort when I catch them and kick them off) messing up your property, deliberately or not, you'd see it a lot differently. They - WE - get permits to control the deer. WE get to be the ones to control those numbers, the deer are causing severe damage to OUR CROPS, OUR LIVELIHOOD - ESPECIALLY fruit trees - every year. And it's OUR right to manage that problem, AS WE SEE FIT, and as allowed by law. As I type this, I'm watching dozens of deer - at least 65 or 70 - following snowmobile trails - which were made by trespassing snowmobilers who not only laugh at the POSTED signs but they also paintball those signs, cut wire, run over and snap the rows of berry plants and young trees - and decimating the fruiting buds on virtually every tree in the 92-acre orchard. My grapes? They're worse off. And to be absolutely honest, the only thing that does more damage than the deer are the humans that it sounds like you want to be given legal, unfettered access to cause me - US - even more losses... YOU don't pay the MORTGAGE. THE TAXES, the insurance, the maintenance and upkeep, the capital improvements - NOTHING - but we should just open up our lands for the enjoyment of strangers?!? Some of whom even hate the fact that we're "allowed" to have "so much land?" WHERE do they think their FOOD comes from?!?! And then, maybe even have legislation to force us to do just that?? Am I reading you right? If so, for God's sake, have you ever read the story of The Little Red Hen?? You don't help me with one damm thing and I'm supposed to open up my source of living to you? NO. Rethink it. Time to reframe the brain. There are plenty of reasons you're looking at posted signs. I just hope you're obeying them. Maybe it's time to go back to basics... How do you stop a baby from biting people? You bite the baby. Gently, appropriately, but the baby doesn't know it's hurting someone until it understands the consequences of its actions and then USUALLY, it stops biting. So, give me your address, I need bacon. I think you might have some in your 'fridge, I'm sure you'll understand. And I've got the runs pretty bad, make sure you have a new roll of toilet paper in there for me, and I expect it to roll off the top, the way I like it. Today's paper for reading, too. And you better leave the keys in the car for me, I'm kinda tired of paying for my own gas, insurance, car loan payments, registration, all that. And I'll need your license, too. And if you don't have snow tires, well you're gonna have one heck of a towing bill I can tell ya now. You owe me. And if you don't do like I say, I'm gonna tell my uncle who's a State politician to MAKE you do it cuz I CAN! How's that sound to you? Matching... think it through. Sorry, but it always gets to the breaking point after awhile. Year after unending year of it, in every season. It's a mindset. And it needs to be set right.
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Post by mikespring on Feb 24, 2015 18:09:28 GMT -5
" and I expect it to roll off the top, the way I like it."
Oh that made me laugh!!!!!
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Post by Dave Morse on Feb 24, 2015 18:25:36 GMT -5
So you cant keep the snowmobiles from driving on your land? People trespass at wll? Where is this mecca of opportunity? The last 4 wheeler that I saw on my property I chased down before he had gone 100 yards. He claimed he was lost, more like drunk, hes lucky I let him leave. Never have had a trespassing hunter that I know of.
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tmc
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,447
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Post by tmc on Feb 24, 2015 18:31:28 GMT -5
yeah, I should just delete that whole thing. I've got no beef with anybody, least of all anyone on here, people I respect. It just does get so overwhelming, every year, EVERY year, for - well, for longer than I've been alive, frankly.
And no help from anyone in government. I can get permits (and yes it's limited to three, per farm!!!) for crop damage, but nothing for the maple sap lines; damage from deer, NOT counting that caused by skwerlz, amounts to several hundred dollars per year. And the p-o'd hunters shoot my posted signs, some of which are mounted to maple trees (I hope they buy the syrup and get lead poisoning!!! I JOKE!!! I KID!!!), they cut the tubing, shove - well, "stuff" into the drop lines, you name it. And the Town's water tower is adjacent to one farm... people use that as a point of entry because it's "public" land. NOPE - in fact, there's a sign at the gate letting people know that it's a Federal offense to mess with food or water supplies... Maple syrup IS a consumable agricultural product. Oh well... >RANT OFF< except I think I broke the switch this time.
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tmc
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,447
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Post by tmc on Feb 24, 2015 18:50:15 GMT -5
^-- that was to mikespring.
Actually, Dave, maybe YOU should tell ME of YOUR Mecca? I'm struggling to grasp how you have the time to chase them down and nail them. Even here at the orchard, I can see due North 3,100 feet back to the start of our woods; the woods is another 450' deep. By the time a snowmobile is in sight, it takes me several minutes to just get outside, dressed for the weather and/or the ride, and by that time they've had a nice ride in, around, and through my property. I don't own a snowmobile, because it only encourages uninvited people to believe that a trail exists for them to use. In conditions other than the current chest-high snowpack, I'm surprisingly good at catching them. We've talked to the local cops about the problem, but (see below) we can't expect any help; in fact, we were told that we need to issue notarized letters, via registered return mail, to all the people we think may be responsible, and to have one filed with the police department, and THEN, MAYBE, they'll stop those entering or exiting the property. Of course, our lawyer sez it ain't so, but that it's not worth pursuing. ALSO, snowshoes are a little slower than snowmobiles, in case ya hadn't noticed. My lands are also miles apart, I live at the orchard and the main farm is about 9 miles by road - 6 as the crow flies - away. And that farm is extremely hilly, at no place on that farm can you see more than 1/4 of any of the rest of the farm. So yeah, I'm in a bit of a bind trying to keep the camera drones flying and then getting over there in a moment's notice to run them down. I can't wait until we get the benefits of trickle-down drone technology that will allow me to get more than 8 minutes flying time; long before the time they'd be halfway to where I'd need them, they'd have to override and return to "base" to power down and recharge. So, no I don't have drones, that was sarcasm. But I do have a lot of property along snowmobile trails, and those are the bar circuit to boot. It gets expensive repairing cut fences. And trespassing hunters? I've almost given up. It's no use calling the police, 2 of the 11 I caught and kicked off, JUST THIS YEAR, were Town deputies. And most of the rest were volunteer firemen. And I know they can read. They all told me so.
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Post by pockets on Feb 24, 2015 18:52:26 GMT -5
These changes are being made for the trophy hunters. They are not being made to control the herd. If the trophy hunters want bigger bucks Austin hit the nail on the head a shorter season is all we need. The states that put the most bucks in the books have a one week season. That does what Austin said as well as it makes guys hunt, no more it's to cold, to rainy, to snowy I'll go tomorrow mentality. Antler restrictions do nothing but hurt the overall herd over time. Studies have proven this. Shorten the season and hunters kill what makes them happy and what is a trophy to them. We are all individuals and we all have differnt amounts of time to hunt which can change from year to year so what is too small this year may be perfect the next as you may have limited hunting time.
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Post by 2labs on Feb 24, 2015 21:06:28 GMT -5
I have Never trophy hunted for deer, just hunt them for the meat. The guys that hunt where I do go nuts looking for the Big one, takes the fun out of hunting! Every year I hear I seen a 130 class and let it walk,what a joke as it walks to the neighbors property and they shoot it! Foolish !! Mother Nature may do Her own population control this winter for us.
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paintedpaw
Retired NYSDEC Lake George Ranger
Posts: 691
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Post by paintedpaw on Feb 24, 2015 21:13:22 GMT -5
Let me add my two cents. I'm a northern zone trapper that hunts the southern tier and Pennsylvania exclusively. I hunt in 8P in Steuben County and in Elk County, Pennsylvania. My experience is that there are lots of hunters the first weekend and on Thanksgiving morning. After that first weekend hunting pressure drops off dramatically.I hunt with a coup;e of good canine trappers that are forced to pull their traps prior to the gun season. I fully believe that buck to doe ratio as mentioned above.I could have filled doe permits within the first hour, but never saw a live buck. I'm totally against DMP's handed ouit like candy and all of the abuses taking place.At the same time non resident hunters can't get a doe permit in 8P. What kind of management is that? Over the past 30 years I've seen the regs seesaw back and forth from one extreme to the other. I am very, very fortunate to hunt with local farmers on their farms. Posting is a huge problem in the southern tier and like Austin said, just try to get permission to hunt in spite of the deer herd. Here in Warren County DEC got so carried away with party permits years ago that sportsmen finally went to the legislature to get it stopped.Our rifle deer season overlaps our trapping season,but the truth is there are just not that many hunters.Be careful on weekends, no one around during the week.Once southern zone opens the hunters are gone. Not that many deer here anyway.A winter like this is going to be devastating on the herd. In Pennsylvania I've witnessed a drastic reduction in the herd.It needed to be done, there is very little under story left. I have collected far bigger bucks since the antler restrictions were implemented, however had to pass on two bucks this year that were illegal in Pa., but would have been legal in New York. I don't want to open the can of worms over antler restrictions. I fully understand the plight of southern tier coon and canine trappers. Now DEC wants to open a limited season for fisher from October 25 to November 2. More misguided management in my opinion.A December season in the southern tier should be held in December, and by the way, how many traps does one set out to catch one fisher? Be sure to send in your comments on the fisher plan, regardless if you trap them or not.
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