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Post by justin1985 on Dec 22, 2014 11:18:21 GMT -5
Who sucessfully uses them other than Mark & Von? Hopefully those 2 will chime in also. Im open to all opinions on training a dog for use on the line. I recently purchased a german sheperd pup i hope to train for use on my canine line fir years to come. So lets hear of your experiences and theories on this interesting subject.
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Zagman
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,186
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Post by Zagman on Dec 22, 2014 14:06:05 GMT -5
I've done a million demos for a zillion people (exaggerating both numbers to make a point) and I am totally amazed at how few people take my advise or follow my lead on dog use for canine trapping......
I am not saying they are needed or necessary......but the masses sit, year after year, asking me questions.....and less that one percent of them ever look into dog use.....
I just find it SOOOOO odd.....
Von's coyote catch went up exponentially when he got Fudd.........coincidence?
Like I always say.....99% of us have dogs anyhow....so why not get a dog for use on the line?
Some guys meet me half way and get a dog.....but they then wimp-out and get breeds NOT necessarily on my list for trapline dog use.....but at least they are trying...and I am sure they ultimately cave into the wife and kids on getting a more conventional, year-round pet vs. the dogs I'd recommend.
Still, Mr. JP Wilson got a springer spaniel, analogous to my statement above regarding conventional breeds.....but his springer is actually a bad arse and kills coyotes!
So you guys that choose labs and beagles and German shorthairs as trapping dogs.... still have a chance! LOL
Again, don't go out and get a dog just for a few weeks of trapping (although I did JUST that), but if you are going to have a dog anyhow, get one that'll help you on the line.....
(I'm standing up and shouting now!)
MZ
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Post by justin1985 on Dec 22, 2014 14:16:33 GMT -5
Thank you Mark, for the unknowing what would be for top 5 pick of dog breeds to be used on the line?
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Post by saquelie on Dec 22, 2014 14:17:38 GMT -5
I got a mutt from Von that loves wearing #2 bridger bracelets. LOL.
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Zagman
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,186
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Post by Zagman on Dec 22, 2014 14:44:41 GMT -5
#1 Irish Terriers (shocking, I know...... but, BTW, they don't bark much OR shed at all)
I never wanted any kind or hound dog or animal chaser....I was always worried about them NOT doing the trap line dog thing, but rather, chasing other crap...
BUT...a million guys besides me DO use hounds or curs, as they want to chase coons at night and squirrels in the daylight, I guess, so opt for a more versatile breed
That's why I opted for the terrier breeds (Airedales (if you can find small ones) are common dogs out west.....as are curs, Dorn dogs, etc.)
I'd think a Drathar would a good dog for this.....as they do all kinds of stuff besides point birds..........
You need a dog, in my opinion, that once it tracks down a wounded coyote or coyote on a long drag chain, there's a chance there's going to be a battle...and they have to be up to it.
MZ
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tomsnare
It's a good time to be a trapper!
Posts: 514
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Post by tomsnare on Dec 22, 2014 18:47:03 GMT -5
I've had Airedales trapping with me forever--------the first one checked rat and beaver traps and caught coons and field lions----since the coyotes have occupied my time in NY and now in NM I would not trap without a dog pancho has found cats,coyotes,foxes and a couple of real lions. He doesn't fight which is out of character for airedales if the coyote submits he falls in "love" with it ! He is the first one I used the sport dog collar training system and highly recommend it. Mark is right you have to trap with a dog!----------Tom
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Post by justin1985 on Dec 22, 2014 19:26:49 GMT -5
Glad to see folks chiming in lets keep it going.
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Post by hunter35 on Dec 22, 2014 19:33:14 GMT -5
whats the benefits of using a dog?
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Post by kirkwooder on Dec 22, 2014 19:35:18 GMT -5
whats the benefits of using a dog? It gives you some one to talk to!
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Post by saquelie on Dec 22, 2014 20:16:50 GMT -5
whats the benefits of using a dog? It gives you some one to talk to! Or yell at.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 20:20:12 GMT -5
I have a cur that i specifically use for a trap line dog he has taught me more about location then any book or video i read or whatched except for grand pappy Von !!!!!!!!!! He just pisses on everything and the k-9s come a running
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Post by flatiron on Dec 22, 2014 22:46:43 GMT -5
Ok, I'll chime in. Many years ago Willis Kent spent a lot of time at my house while staying at Andy Stoes during the convention circuit during the summer months. He had an ugly dog named Fuzz with him. He told awesome stories of trapping w / Fuzz and decoying too. We had few coyotes then and my dog heart was raising and feild trialing Labs and beagles. Thought little of it until I met Mark, ask if he ever bred any pups -----his answer ----- they are both males but I 'll try. Little did I know his Irish terrier came from a fellow I went to school with and lives about 3 miles here from the Flatiron. Fudd had already come to live here. I raised Airedales and hunted them back in the 70's but didn't know where to find a GOOD one. Fudd was an easy trainer and now I'm stuck on Curs (I have 4 now) . I reckon if you want a trapline dog you have to be able to read how a dog works. As to breeds of dogs, terriers big or small, mountain curs, and like Mark stated a Drathar would be a good choice. I have a friend who traps with a Border Collie (female) that does great but Jim always knows when a coyote has been caught because she hiss under the truck when he catches one. The jest of it is unless you are a dogman and have hunted a bunch with a dog you may not do that well. I would want a dog of hunting strains mentioned above. Not saying that a shepherd won't work BUT wouldn't. Be my dog of choice.
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Post by flatiron on Dec 22, 2014 22:58:20 GMT -5
I now have a friend in Penn. that raises Airedales, many go to trappers and decoy men. Funny thing is ----he also has Curs. I enjoy hunting my dogs as well as trapping, when then weather is decent ----- I like to hunt coons or squirrels.Curs have become a big part of my life and will be the last dogs I own but if I was to get another dog ---- prolly be an Airedale, I had one that would point pheasants, retrieve ducks and hunt coon all in the same day.
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Post by justin1985 on Dec 22, 2014 23:31:13 GMT -5
Thank you for chiming in Von. I went with the sheperd because there known for both there intelligence and nose. Lets hope she can be trained to perform the nesecary tasks. Only time will tell. I will keep everyone posted on her progress.
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Post by flatiron on Dec 23, 2014 5:34:33 GMT -5
Reckon first off I would have gotten a gamey type dog and a male too. Sounds like you were going to get a shepherd no matter what. Best of luck.
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Zagman
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,186
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Post by Zagman on Dec 23, 2014 6:45:09 GMT -5
I will say that of my two Irish lads, Boone is NOT full Irish like his pappy Rusty.
Boone's mama was a dog named Annie....and she was a Dorn dog. Dorn's are named after Vern Dorn, who came up with the breed.....a cross between Airedale, Plott Hound, and, I think, Australian Shepherd?
Any how, that lineage in Boone, I think, is what makes him a better dog. Boone has a much better nose than Rusty and 9 times out of ten, Boone is the hero of the team when it comes to tracking down stuff....
Boone could be a good squirrel dog.....always looks up and sniffs up, treeing squirrels, chipmunks and the occasional house cat. He even barks treed.....
And what a decoy dog Boone is.....if you ever see me at a convention and I have my computer or phone, shake me down so I can show you him in action, working coyotes like a pro.....
Not belittling Rusty...just pointing out that Boone is a better over all working dog, and I sense its due to some of his white trash, hillbilly, hound dog past! LOL
MZ
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Post by trappermac on Dec 23, 2014 7:45:48 GMT -5
But then I will assume that Rusty can drink Boone under the table, being full Irish like he is. Look for the positives.
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Post by justin1985 on Dec 23, 2014 9:06:20 GMT -5
I own tree hounds if i want to go out for a drop or two and see a coon i can. Or i can hunt hard and shoot a pile of coon over them. I chose a female because i dont want a bush weting maniac. I simply want a dog to "flag" natural urine posts so i can blind set them. My perception of the method may be misconstrued?
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Zagman
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,186
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Post by Zagman on Dec 23, 2014 9:36:55 GMT -5
Your story is similar to hundreds of others.....its rare to find a part-time trapper (I'm one!) that goes "all-in" on the trapping dog thing....knowing that this is a family pet, and that trap line dog use would be a nice, icing-on-the cake, end result.
Versus starting with a proven, known breed used for these purposes.....let alone male vs. female......(I am with Von on the male thing)
In the end, most guys try to fit a square peg into a round hole on the trapping dog thing......which I totally get.
You don't see guys who want duck dogs trying beagles or collies.....and you don't see coon and rabbit chasers going with anything other than hounds (except for kill dogs)....they go with proven dogs bred for that reason.
In fairness, no dog was bred to be a trapping dog (well, I guess the Dorn sorta was) so the choices are not nearly as obvious as when choosing rabbit, coon, duck, or upland bird dogs.....so guys go with the type of dog they like or want in their family. Labs....German Shorthairs.....Brittanies....et al.
Still, I ALWAYS say, ANY disciplined dog is better than NO dog at all..... and I mean that. They will show you stuff you cannot see...or smell.
And, again, JP is a good example....when he told me he went with a Springer, I'm like....."um, huh?"
And his dog is great....so what do I know???
I bet your shepherd will do just fine, and you are a lot better off with her than without.....
You will have to train her to be lure shy....and to do that, you will have to catch her in a trap a few times. PM me for ideas about that, but let me know how easy THAT premise is to sell to the family! LOL
Funny story...the blue balled kid was riding with me, and expressing interest in a dog. I, of course, pushed him on the Irish. He said he didn't like them due to their looks....."They have small heads" he said. LOL
"No, son, you do!" says I. I think he got a Brittany.
Back to my first thought about how few people come to me for dog info.......I think if I bred Irish terriers around here I'd sell every pup. But my breeder is in Montana, making it tough for people to get to see those dogs, let alone procure one. Hard to take the family and kids over to see the puppies to choose one.....
So, they get something more conventional......or, they go with one of Von's curs. ("Deliverance" music should be dubbed in now, please LOL!) And it seems most people have pretty good luck with that choice. Even though I bust that collective group of cur owner's incessantly......
In the end, good for anyone who gives it a try and sees some potential value in trap line dog use.....I could trap without them, but why? Any endeavor (especially hunting or trapping) is better with a good dog....or two.
MZ
PS: and YES, Mac, Rusty LOVES beer!
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Post by flatiron on Dec 23, 2014 9:46:12 GMT -5
The male dog will naturally mark those spots not much training needed.I set spots where Fudd has peed with no visible sign and made catches. I'm no expert on training trapline dogs but have been training bird dogs for over 40 years its about reading how the dog works. My females would make poor trapline dogs at best .Males piss on everything sure, Mark's dog and Fudd might even piss on you if your standing too close. I would also want a dog with hunting instincts not one I would have to train to find. I'm a bit bias of shepherds, rottys, dobermans,and collie's because they are the dogs I've been bitten by. Hope you do well, Imo I think you have a long road ahead of you, Von
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Post by kirkwooder on Dec 23, 2014 10:30:25 GMT -5
I'm going to chime in here with a few opinions that many on here won't agree with and some may even be upset by, but here goes. The first thing you must consider when getting any dog, for any reason is, "What am I going to do with the dog when I'm not ___________?"(fill in the blank:hunting, trapping etc.,etc.) I have had hunting dogs all my life. Every one of my hunting dogs has also been a house pet. Getting any hunting breed is a huge commitment that goes on for 365 days a year. If you are dedicated to your sport, you may actually only work that dog 20-30 days of those 365. However, that dog still needs attention all 365. I feel that if you are going to make the commitment to get a dog you should be ready to fulfill that commitment, and it is much easier to do so if the dog is a family/house pet than it is if it is a kennel dog. I see way to many good dogs left to languish in an outdoor kennel, treated worse than any murderer in jail is. Getting nothing but a little food and water every day, and rarely, if ever getting any off season work/exercise. I currently own a Blue Tick Hound, a Pointer (English of course), and a toy terrier. They all live in the house with my wife and I. It is a very challenging situation at times. I would advise that if you are going to travel this same road you might want to op for one of the more conventional House pet breeds. The Shepard wouldn't have been my first choice, but I'm sure with the proper training she will be a huge help on the line and she will likely fit into a home much better than my bull headed Blue Tick. Just my humble opinion.
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Post by Lonny Mattison on Dec 23, 2014 10:36:48 GMT -5
I have a female out of Fudd. Although I did not get her to be a trapline dog, she has natural hunting ability and a real good nose. All summer I put urine post around my yard. I let her go out on the back yard and play. When she first started finding these scent areas she was timid and unsure. A little praising and she quickly over came her shyness of the smell and showed a little excitement when she found them.
Is a female the first choice for this? No. But knowing she has a good head and nose on her I think she can help me a little and besides she is a good companion.
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Post by J.P. Wilson on Dec 23, 2014 19:29:38 GMT -5
I agree with a lot of the above comments. Find a dog that suits you best. I love to hunt birds ducks, geese, partridge, pheasants but, because of how much I like to trap I'm a 2 week part time bird hunter. I take 3-4 weeks off to trap every year and than travel to trap out west in the winter. As I was growing up my family had a springer that would hunt whatever you put him on, literally anything. Obviously they're not hounds so you need to follow behind them as they're bred to hunt 30 to 50 feet infront of you anymore and they wait or come back to you (most of the time) . That is ideal for me when tracking a coyote, cat or fox on a drag. I use a lot of drags and my springer has saved me a countless amount of time looking for the ones that don't leave a good drag mark. My dog definetely serves two purposes for me. I could never use him as a decoy because he won't leave my side. I may look into a dorn or Irish later on but my springer is everything I could ask for. I also believe the owner makes the dog. Good bloodlines and good breeds are a great place to start but, with enough time and training you can shape or form a beagle to jump partridge or a springer to hunt rabbits or track coyotes. My springer upset a few guys at a coon dog trial once, the guys running it wouldn't give him a number they just called him fluffy, if he would've barked he couldve taken first! If I didn't hunt birds I probably wouldnt have opted with the springer but, I'm glad I did. URL=http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/jpwilson63/media/trapping14/DSCN1000_zpsdb9483bd.jpg.html] [/URL] URL=http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/jpwilson63/media/trapping14/RSCN0829_zps6f01fd8d.jpg.html] [/URL]
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Post by kirkwooder on Dec 23, 2014 19:38:07 GMT -5
Have any of you guy's ever had a coyote tear your dog up? I keep a basic dog first aid kit in my hunting vest and a pretty thorough kit in my truck. I've had to use it several times, more so for the bird dog though! lol
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Post by silentnight on Dec 23, 2014 19:38:52 GMT -5
gorgeous looking dog JP
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