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Post by cnyh2ofowler on Dec 19, 2014 7:47:00 GMT -5
I pulled all but 5 of my rat traps Tues. due to the rain and high water. I am trapping drainage ditches and was afraid I could not get at the traps with the high water. Anyways Tues and Wed. nights I went 4 for 5 in the traps I left out with all big rats. My question is: Do rats move, redistribute, during high water periods or was I just lucky the past couple days.
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MuskratKid_Ny
Don't catch any fur with traps in the shed get setting
Posts: 434
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Post by MuskratKid_Ny on Dec 19, 2014 8:11:35 GMT -5
Yea you will catch rats in places u didn't think rats would go when the high water comes .. I caught one in a ditch that was usually dry I had a mink set/pocket set and I went there water was just below my knee with a rat waiting on me ... anytime water level is high rats move alot
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tmc
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,447
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Post by tmc on Dec 19, 2014 10:04:13 GMT -5
lol... Many, many years ago I caught a muskrat in a blind set that was at LEAST a mile from the nearest surface water of any kind. I agree that you can catch 'em just about anywhere!
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Post by oldman50 on Dec 19, 2014 20:31:54 GMT -5
I have one place that is an inflow to a large 40acre pond. Has alot of cattails along both banks. By the looks of it you would think you could catch hundreds of rats but I usually catch 15 to 20. It's a population thing and the remaining few rats are buggers to catch. Sometimes it's best to leave some seed and move on. I have had some success with floats. Some days the rats I catch with the floats are the only ones I catch.
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Post by cnyh2ofowler on Dec 20, 2014 18:52:52 GMT -5
Everyone says "rats are easy to catch" I think this is true for guys that are good at reading rat sign. I am learning every day I rat trap. This skim ice has been great for finding bubble trails, then I look at the bottom under the trail and you can see why the rats swim there. I have had good luck with some single spring 220's I made out of some old 220's I had, they cover the runs good.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Dec 20, 2014 19:20:27 GMT -5
the people who say "rats are easy to catch" are the very guys who catch five and think they've wiped them out when in fact twenty more rats exist there unbeknownst to them. The real truth is, catching large numbers of muskrats is at least as difficult if not more so (for many reasons) than any other furbearer species, including the various canines. you're doing good, and you are definitely on the right track with using those #210s
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Post by oldman50 on Dec 20, 2014 20:12:07 GMT -5
Just wondering if you use any floats Austin?
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Post by mikeb on Dec 20, 2014 20:45:44 GMT -5
x2 what austin said about the 210s-i use almost 100% that size traps under the ice-definitely helps as most of the trails are large
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Post by kirkwooder on Dec 20, 2014 21:19:28 GMT -5
the people who say "rats are easy to catch" are the very guys who catch five and think they've wiped them out when in fact twenty more rats exist there unbeknownst to them. The real truth is, catching large numbers of muskrats is at least as difficult if not more so (for many reasons) than any other furbearer species, including the various canines. you're doing good, and you are definitely on the right track with using those #210s Austin, How many rats have you caught in the average day so far this year? What has been your best day ever on a canine line? How many rat sets can you set in a day? How many canine sets can you set in a day? Maybe it's because i broke my teeth as a young teenager catching rats in farm ponds, but I would have to say that, compared to canines, rats are easy to catch. Now having said that, I by no means mean to say that it doesn't take skill to catch rats. It certainly does, and it is a lot of work to put up good numbers of rats, but setting a hundred 110's in a good sized marsh in a day is very doable, where as trying to dig that many dirt holes, or even bed that many canine sets in a day is nearly impossible. Hitting a hundred coyotes in a season is considered a huge accomplishment where as catching a hundred rats can be, and is, regularly done by part time trappers. I personally think that it is far more difficult to successfully trap canines than it is to catch rats, but that's just my $.02.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Dec 20, 2014 22:08:54 GMT -5
kirk, you can go out to Kansas or Nebraska, eastern Colorado, Texas and catch 100s of coyotes per WEEK. So define degree of difficulty & coyotes.
A muskrat is easy to catch. Now go set one hundred 110s in a woodland marsh where houses are all around you but there are no visible runs. Do you know exactly where to look for muskrat travel there?
Set your one hundred 110s in any still water for two weeks of freeze-thaw-snow cycle where 1" of ice forms with a skiff of snow on top. Now what? You cannot visibly see a thing. Do you know where to find those "hidden" rats?
Fox are stupid and coyotes aren't hard once you spend a few years figuring them out like the good coyote trappers have. If rats were fetching $50 average today, could you go out and catch 1,000 around here right now? I'm guessing "no" is the realistic answer.
That, and muskrat trapping is several times more physically grueling than canine trapping ever thought of being. You need a lot more stamina to keep the pace with muskrats than trucking a long-line for fox or coyotes. I've done plenty of both to know the difference, and there is a difference.
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Post by kirkwooder on Dec 20, 2014 23:26:50 GMT -5
I get what you are saying, I don't think that I could catch a thousand rats in a season now, but before I had my accident I think I could have. I don't think it would have been easy, and it would taken the whole season. I don't think that anyone could catch a thousand coyote or fox here in our area in the best of times, and in the best of health.
If my life depended on catching 100 critters in a season, but only one kind of critter, I would set for rats and I might be done in a week, under good weather. It takes a dedicated canine trapper to catch a hundred in a season. I have trapped enough rats to think that I should be able to find them, though I haven't trapped any in any numbers in several years.
I also don't get how you think rat trapping is more grueling than punching in canine sets. I find it much harder work digging dirt holes and bedding coil springs than staking body grips. Like I said, I think I could still set a hundred 110's in rat runs in a day, but there is no way I could even make half that many canine sets in a day. I feel it takes a lot more effort per critter to trap canines.
I understand that trapping rats by the thousands is very tough, but it can still be done. However, catching a thousand canines in a season, here in NY, is impossible.
On the other hand, I gave up the water line a few years ago because I didn't think it was worth the risk and effort. LOL After rolling the canoe over and going for a swim, in below zero weather, over a mile from my ATV, and almost 2 miles from the warmth of the house.
I'm not arguing, by the way, I'm just trying to express a different opinion.
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Post by oldman50 on Dec 21, 2014 9:32:07 GMT -5
I'm with Austin on this one. Last year I didn't trap rats because of a large property that we trapped canines on. We put out a lot of sets and had no time for anything else. It was pure joy not having to put waders on everyday and slogging through muck and thin ice. Was also nice to see clear sign to set on and not guessing where they were running through. It also depends on where you are trapping the rats. Ponds are fairly easy but swamps can be a real bugger. The only way I can catch rats in swamps is to set the snot out of everything that looks like a run going to a feed bed or hut. It's hard but the rats are big and furred up in swamps so that's what I prefer. I'm not trying to start an argument either but I'm talking from experience. I am by no means a big numbers rat guy. I have a job and have to check before work so that limits me a little but I would not be doing this if I didn't love it. What about the floats Austin?
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Post by mikeb on Dec 21, 2014 20:40:04 GMT -5
so true about where you are trapping the rats-small creeks and ponds are a walk in the park-usually bank runs are easy to find and setup-now big marshes are what seperate the men from boys-especially this season-ice to thin to walk on but a real b!!!!! to have to break thru every day to set and check-very tiring indeed-if we could get a few inches of good ice to walk on then marshes get easier-but like austin said you have to know how to read a marsh to setup.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Dec 22, 2014 6:05:59 GMT -5
I get what you are saying, I don't think that I could catch a thousand rats in a season now, but before I had my accident I think I could have. I don't think it would have been easy, and it would taken the whole season. I don't think that anyone could catch a thousand coyote or fox here in our area in the best of times, and in the best of health. If my life depended on catching 100 critters in a season, but only one kind of critter, I would set for rats and I might be done in a week, under good weather. It takes a dedicated canine trapper to catch a hundred in a season. I have trapped enough rats to think that I should be able to find them, though I haven't trapped any in any numbers in several years. I also don't get how you think rat trapping is more grueling than punching in canine sets. I find it much harder work digging dirt holes and bedding coil springs than staking body grips. Like I said, I think I could still set a hundred 110's in rat runs in a day, but there is no way I could even make half that many canine sets in a day. I feel it takes a lot more effort per critter to trap canines. I understand that trapping rats by the thousands is very tough, but it can still be done. However, catching a thousand canines in a season, here in NY, is impossible. On the other hand, I gave up the water line a few years ago because I didn't think it was worth the risk and effort. LOL After rolling the canoe over and going for a swim, in below zero weather, over a mile from my ATV, and almost 2 miles from the warmth of the house. I'm not arguing, by the way, I'm just trying to express a different opinion. Kirk, I know you and I know you are sparking a constructive conversation. Else I wouldn't take this time to reply first of all, your comparison to numbers across species is errant. 100 coyotes in NY is considered a real feat while out in the Midwest it is merely a decent week's catch and nothing more. Here in NY 1,000 rats is considered a milestone while in the Midwest, it is a solid week's catch. of course you can catch 100 muskrats easier than 100 coyotes... there are more of them. So adjust the math to its feat. secondly, everyone who entertains this conversation mentally pictures their fantasy muskrat adventure with the sun shining bright, air is still and calm, bluebirds are singing and shallow waters are filled with muddy channels for easy trapping. Yes I know that is the fantasy mental picture... which is miles away from reality. yesterday for example I hit the water ice line at 7am and did not finish until 4pm. For the first half I busted ice from a canoe, second half I busted ice while walking thru. The absolute physical exhaustion from that one day is like a full week of truck trapping canines. You talk about digging 100 dirt holes in a day. Longliners commonly pre-dig and stake more than that, then ride around and hook up traps once season opens. But there is no prestaking for rats, it is all work from day one at 7am. I'm relating this to you as the plain truth and nothing more. I don't care who worships the almighty canine or canine trappers as some kinda special. In the past five years I have run several all-day fox lines and several all-day muskrats lines, so I'm speaking thru actual experience. It is way more difficult from every angle to put 1,000 rats thru the truck than 100 of either canines here in NY. Lastly, if I were still running an all-day fox line and invited anyone to tag along. they merely need be able to ride in the passenger side of truck, occasionally make a short walk to sets off road, maybe carry back a couple of fox or coon, etc. But the same invitation to join me trapping rats would involve chest waders and canoe skills, being out in the elements and not in a truck cab. Ability to climb in & out of canoe 100 times while standing in water. Ability to wade thru varying depths of water and mucky bottom for miles collectively at day's end. Ability to carry 40 - 50lbs of weight, traps or catches, thru those same water hazard conditions. Ability to bust ice with your knees and feet for hours on end. etc Most everyone here of all ages, agility and fitness levels could join me on the truck line for canines. Far fewer could survive, let alone keep pace on the muskrat line. Those are merely logistical facts and nothing more. Muskrat trapping requires a different kind of insanity than canine trapping. In the end, we are all relatively insane
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Post by minkwaders on Dec 22, 2014 7:43:27 GMT -5
I can't. see why you make rat trapping seem so difficult. I have trapped over 700 RATS this year without a canoe..In fact i don't even have a truck. It is far more difficult to keep a canine line going than it is for a large. rat line. I should make a video. and show you how its done.
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Post by cnyh2ofowler on Dec 22, 2014 8:24:01 GMT -5
This is tough to compare these 2 things. I bow hunt and waterfowl hunt, now both of these are called hunting, but they could not be more different than rat and K9 trapping. I do most of my work for bow hunting pre season, hanging stands, cutting trails, planting. Sitting in the tree is not hard, but I get bored. Late season waterfowl hunting we get to the blind 1.5 hours before legal shooting time, bust our buts to put out 300 diver decoys but I love the social aspect of being in a blind with a bunch of ball busters. Both are hunting, but you cannot compare them. Rats and K9 are the same. Sank up to my hips this AM when I broke through some cattails I was walking on, might still be there if I did not have my wading staff. Would have been a little embarrassing to have a helicopter extraction from the swamp. The main thing is we are outside, doing what we love to do. Have a great holiday.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Dec 22, 2014 9:23:30 GMT -5
Hunting, trapping and fishing are not work. They are recreational hobbies. There should be no ego-drama involved, as I have said here in this board and elsewhere for years. I always wish everyone else have a catch in every trap. Why not? Only the biggest of insecure losers would wish ill on anyone else, or try to make some sort of contest out of fur, fish or game. Now that said, operating out of a truck all day on dry land versus on foot or from afloat in the water are two different degrees of physical demand. And taking it a step further, all-out beaver trapping is toughest yet. Anyone who ever set six traps at a big colony way off the road and was rewarded next day with a pair of 60+ pound adults and 40+ pound 2yr olds can relate In any event, if someone tries to use trapping as a measure of self-worth against others in their life, they most certainly have no life at all. Plain and simple.
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Post by kirkwooder on Dec 22, 2014 9:31:45 GMT -5
Trapping beaver is just plain nut's!
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Post by cnyh2ofowler on Dec 22, 2014 9:45:40 GMT -5
Having traps out makes every morning like Christmas morning.
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Post by kirkwooder on Dec 22, 2014 9:55:42 GMT -5
Having traps out makes every morning like Christmas morning. Yeah, but some Christmas's you only get a pink bunny sleep suit from your aunt Klara! lol
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tmc
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,447
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Post by tmc on Dec 22, 2014 11:59:41 GMT -5
lol... are they running that already, kirkwooder? I've gotta see it at least once this year. Austin, you're financially savvy, I'm surprised you missed this: With the economy the way it's been, some people are going all out doing all they can to get as much coal as possible this Christmas!!! DUH??? Can't pay the utility company, find another way to heat the home, y'know? In addition, some people have decided to go into the coal-selling business this way. At least it seems that way lately! Anyways, back on track -- cny, I think you caught those that were taking advantage of the opportunity presented by the high water to get about more and farther than normal, considering that yours were all large size. Just my - um, well, yeah - just my guess.
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Post by bearman60 on Dec 22, 2014 15:39:56 GMT -5
i water trap beaver and rats this time of year as well as canines.i am 61 years young,love the rush of a beaver or fox in the set as much as anybody. but as far as exertion i have to give it to water trapping! imo
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Dec 22, 2014 18:56:13 GMT -5
after today's repeat episode of breaking even thicker ice on an albeit shorter line, I realize I'm not really insane... just a special kind of stupid :>O
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Post by oldman50 on Dec 22, 2014 19:02:58 GMT -5
OK OK we all work hard as trappers. Fowler just asked about muskrat movement. We definitly respect you Austin as a good rat trapper but you havn't once added your opinion on muskrat movement. I asked about floats. Niether one was talked about. What Gives!!!
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Post by slyfox74 on Dec 22, 2014 22:16:50 GMT -5
OK OK we all work hard as trappers. Fowler just asked about muskrat movement. We definitly respect you Austin as a good rat trapper but you havn't once added your opinion on muskrat movement. I asked about floats. Niether one was talked about. What Gives!!! I'll chime in. In my opinion. Floats are a waste of time and space. They work mostly in the spring and if they are under some sort of cover. You're further ahead if you just find natural landings that they use or would use. That being said there are tons of them deployed with success every year. I have some and use them occasionally when they're needed. Use a little dab of muskrat juice or even half a swollen rat gland on them and it's all the better. I rarely use them in the fall.
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