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Post by mole on Nov 30, 2014 5:42:16 GMT -5
Night Owl has an excellent Tonquin.
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Post by scott on Nov 30, 2014 7:49:29 GMT -5
Night Owl has an excellent Tonquin. That is where I have been buying it. He has good stuff, ingredients, lures, baits etc. And a nice guy to boot. Scott
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Post by papabear on Nov 30, 2014 22:07:08 GMT -5
Dear Friends A little update and a few thoughts. Friday was an effort in futility as the critters weren't moving much with the new accumulation of wet heavy snow we recieved on Tuesday. Today faired better as most locations had been visited by at least one or more type critter, mainly deer,coyote or fox. Three locations had been visited by fisher.
The flower pot sets produced 2 grey fox and an ermine. Although three locations had fisher tracks at the sets only one adult female fisher was caught at a box set (the box set being the only set at that location).
The other two locations with fisher tracks, (one a single running pole with a previous catch, the other location had a running pole with a box set about fifteen feet away) showed that in both instances the fisher came in , investigated, spent some time looking at the bait (lots of tracks and packed down snow) but would not commit to the point of being caught. I assume from the size of the tracks that both were adult animals.
Over the past few years I've been noticing several things. Some fisher at times are finicky, meaning at one visit they show little interest and the next time through they hit your offering aggressively....However in instances when the fisher comes in and spends some amount of time at the set but wont commit has me nearly convinced that some adult fisher become wary or trap/set shy. My thinking is they have made it through a couple seasons and seen other fisher caught or dead in a trap and they remember it.
Another point of interest is that none of the sets have been re~lured or re~baited and are still attracting critters four weeks after the initial application and through rain and snow.
Im down to 13 locations and plan on pulling these next weekend or as catches are made. I also have a few more observations and opinions I'll share throughout the week.
Regards
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Post by newfox1 on Dec 1, 2014 7:48:55 GMT -5
THANKS PAPABEAR, for sharing your knowledge.
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tmc
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,447
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Post by tmc on Dec 1, 2014 8:07:58 GMT -5
I always figured it had a lot to do with how hungry they were; if they successfully killed and ate something fresh before coming to my set, the odds of them wanting more, especially something dead or tainted or just a whiff of a scent that is not as appealing as live food would have been, they're just proportionately not all that motivated to go for it, but if they're hungry they'll take anything as a matter of opportunity.
Kind of like it says in The Good Book: "The full soul loathes an honeycomb; but to the hungry soul every bitter thing is sweet." - Pr. 27:7
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paintedpaw
Retired NYSDEC Lake George Ranger
Posts: 691
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Post by paintedpaw on Dec 1, 2014 18:36:18 GMT -5
It has been my observation that fisher change their habits once there is snow on the ground. I too think it depends upon how hungry they are in regard to refusals.The snow does seem to trigger a feeding spree. It has been my experience where I have seen that a fisher has passed directly by a porcupine den without ever turning, yet I fairly frequently catch them with quills embedded in the neck and face with no apparent adverse affects. I once had a fisher eat a dead fisher in my trap, so I think the degree of hunger is a big factor.
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Post by mvernelson on Dec 1, 2014 18:56:00 GMT -5
Thanks for your time posting Papa bear!
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tmc
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,447
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Post by tmc on Dec 1, 2014 19:10:07 GMT -5
Yes, a big thanks to papabear. Between you, sir, and the others, this thread has got to be one of the richest veins of information around, here or anywhere else. Packed full of knowledge that only comes from hard earned experience. Thank you.
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Post by kirkwooder on Dec 1, 2014 20:12:51 GMT -5
We don't even have a fisher season here and i still can't miss a single post in this thread! Thank you all!
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Post by papabear on Dec 1, 2014 22:05:26 GMT -5
Dear Mr. Newfox1, I am merely a student of the forest and life.
Mr. tmc and Mr. paintedpaw, While I certainly agree to a degree hunger is a factor, but fisher are weasels and greedy by nature. I have on more than several occassions caught fisher with full bellies and they reaked of carrion with a stench so bad that they made the worst smelling yotey dog compare like Fi Fi the french poodle at an AKC dog show. Im convinced that it was their greedy nature that cost them there hide.
The ones that keep me scratching my head in wonder are the ones who spend some time milling around, climbing on, scratching the ground, and flattening the snow around the sets but they never commit enough to get caught. My logic tells me there is something these individual animals know or have experienced that keeps them from succumbing to their hunger or greedy nature to grab the bait. Im thinking these are adult fisher and they have survived a couple of trapping seasons and seen some of there kin dead or caught in traps. I believe these individual fisher remember from one season to the next. I am convinced fisher can remember because I have seen where fisher will visit a set location whenever in the area. For example Im big for using a chunk of beaver tail on a running pole for bait. After the season is over I leave the piece of tail nailed to the pole. As the weather warms in the spring and summer months, whats left of the tail renders down and the tail oil runs down and leaches into the bark. (I have some poles that are nearly black from yearly use and of the leaching oil). Fisher and most other critters will check these out everytime they travel through.
Mr. paintedpaw, It has also been my observation that fisher habits or routines changes with snowfall. I believe that it is because of the oportunities of mobility are dictated by snowfall amounts and the fishers ability to travel. Deep fluffy snow makes it extremely difficult for fisher to hunt. Not to often do I see fisher tracks in fluffy snow conditions of a foot or more. I think the fisher must hole up and wait for the snow to settle enough to support their weight before going out hunting. But when snow conditions are right and the fisher can travel I totally agree with your statement "the snow triggers a feeding spree".
Regards
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Post by brushwolf64 on Dec 2, 2014 6:19:39 GMT -5
Bob I agree their greedy nature does cost them their hides. Its the main reason I use large baits at sets. The larger baits in my opinion causes them to want to posses it. I don't think its a hunger issue early season as much as greed. Most falls theres plenty of food for them to find. Now as the winter comes on and food becomes scarce im guessing an empty belly contributes to the equation. I also believe that fisher like other animals can and do recall areas that caused them to be wary. Maybe its ma natures way of keeping the stronger/warier adults alive to breed. Great thread Mr. Papabear !!!
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paintedpaw
Retired NYSDEC Lake George Ranger
Posts: 691
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Post by paintedpaw on Dec 2, 2014 9:22:05 GMT -5
An interesting discussion regarding memory. Not sure how I feel on the subject, I certainly have seen how smart beavers can become. I totally agree with Mr. PapaBear on deep fluffy snow making fishers to hole up until it settles. If you get a 3" snowfall one sure wants to check their traps!.
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Post by saquelie on Dec 2, 2014 10:34:11 GMT -5
I only have a dozen fisher boxes out behind my house,which my son checks for me at nite after work. All the traps can be checked by 4wheeler without getting off except to rebait or lure. Decided I would attempt the check yesterday as I have been laid up with bad hip. Now these dozen traps stretch thru about 6 miles of varing terrain with about a quarter of it being great fisher habitat mix of hardwood and conifer and some farm land. Years past have always caught at least two fisher. Well since our 14 inchs of snow has melted to about four I decided to go look for sign. Not a single track of fisher,marten,fox or cat. Lot of deer,yote,squirrel,hare and a few ermine tracks. Not was what I was hoping for.
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Post by papabear on Dec 4, 2014 23:01:22 GMT -5
Dear Friends, As Ive mentioned in previous posts, this year I am conducting some experiments and in part have limited myself to using two sized bodygrip traps, the 160 and the 155 for fisher. I'm thinking that including a few thoughts and observations regarding traps might serve to enhance this thread.
Back when I started trapping for fisher, I (like most other fisher trappers) primarily used one of two traps. The 220 sized bodygrip or a #2 coilspring. I was, and still am satisfied with the performance of the 220 bodygrip traps and felt they were versatile and adaquate for fisher and similar size critters. Regulation restrictions put a severe damper on the way we were allowed to use the 220 and I was not happy or going to change my trapping methods to to accomodate a trap!
To comply with the "LAW", I purchased and started using 160's. Reluctant (or perhaps defiantly) at first, I learned to adapt and utilize the 160 where the 220 was prohibited. Still, because of the regulation restrictions pertaining to bodygrip trap size a couple of my favorite and most productive sets were rendered illegal.
Then about three years ago, along comes the 155, ah just the ticket to make my favorite sets legal again. But there are limitations, as some critters balk at sticking there head in the small sized opening afforded by this trap. However a good percentage fisher seem to have no issue plowing through it.
My appraisal of the these traps is as follows.... With the current regulations all three of these size bodygrips traps have a place and purpose on my fisher lines. I honestly admit if I had my way I would prefer to go back to using the 220 for the bulk of my bodygripping! I like the size of the trap, when used on a bigger running pole it can be elevated a bit to catch the occassional cat, the ease of trail setting, and its overall versatility over a range of different sets....... The 160 is as near to "death by lightning strike" as it gets. BUT it has to be used on a smaller, steeper pole which vurtually eliminates the occassional cat and grey fox catch. It takes more time looking for tight spots in trails and brushing it in. And forget about recessing it in a baited box as coon balk at it and I believe a good amount of fisher do to...........The 155 works well in the opening of baited boxes for coon and fisher. Is proving to be a winner in the flower pot sets for a variety of critters. Its small size has fox balking a tree root sets. When used in a baited box , the opening has to be elevated to keep coon from reaching in and firing the trap with its feet. The biggest drawback is, in my opinion, the 155 is nowhere near as efficient at promptly dispatching a fisher as the 220 or 160. A good percentage of fisher catches with the 155 show enough sign that indicates that the critter was alive for a substantial amount of time before expiring.
Regards
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Post by Lonny Mattison on Dec 5, 2014 4:11:38 GMT -5
Papabear, I agree with your 155 comments.
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Post by papabear on Dec 7, 2014 22:30:47 GMT -5
Dear Friends, The following information should prove usefull for those who are new or just getting into trapping fisher. These tips are from my observations and experiences, and I hope they save you from a bunch of trial and error.
Watch the weather forecasts! While it is likely ( if your in fisher habitat) you will catch fisher anytime during the season, your best odds for the highest number of catches are times of incoming and during COLD FRONTS especially if theres snow in the forecast. Fisher go into hunting hyper drive. You would do well to have your sets ready for these weather events.
Be aware of landscape / habitat changes. Logging operations will disrupt fisher travel routes. Ive had many good fisher set locations quit producing after recent nearby logging that were in line with a fishers normal travel route. I have some that started producing after five years or so and some that havent produced since.
Be mindfull of your competition! Good looking fisher habitat is pretty well defined. The best practice is to disipline yourself on the number of fisher you harvest from a location or area. Take into consideration the take of other trappers working the area.....About six years ago, not far from here, I and at least two (at least thats what I thought) other trappers were trapping this area along a three mile stretch of seasonal road with some outstanding fisher habitat. As the season progressed I knew that one of my competetitors had taken at least one fisher. On one of my checks I had caught two at two different locations and started to pull out of the area. As I was pulling the last spot in that area I saw another fisher in one of my competitions sets. That was four fisher harvested along this three mile stretch. Later on in the season I ran into these guys and we were discussing the situation. Turns out after I pulled out some other guys set the area the last couple weeks of the season. I found out after the season that seven (7) fisher were taken from that three mile stretch. I havent caught one in that area since!
Regards
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Post by White Mountain Trappers on Dec 8, 2014 11:58:49 GMT -5
Dear Friends, The following information should prove usefull for those who are new or just getting into trapping fisher. These tips are from my observations and experiences, and I hope they save you from a bunch of trial and error. Watch the weather forecasts! While it is likely ( if your in fisher habitat) you will catch fisher anytime during the season, your best odds for the highest number of catches are times of incoming and during COLD FRONTS especially if theres snow in the forecast. Fisher go into hunting hyper drive. You would do well to have your sets ready for these weather events. Be aware of landscape / habitat changes. Logging operations will disrupt fisher travel routes. Ive had many good fisher set locations quit producing after recent nearby logging that were in line with a fishers normal travel route. I have some that started producing after five years or so and some that havent produced since. Be mindfull of your competition! Good looking fisher habitat is pretty well defined. The best practice is to disipline yourself on the number of fisher you harvest from a location or area. Take into consideration the take of other trappers working the area.....About six years ago, not far from here, I and at least two (at least thats what I thought) other trappers were trapping this area along a three mile stretch of seasonal road with some outstanding fisher habitat. As the season progressed I knew that one of my competetitors had taken at least one fisher. On one of my checks I had caught two at two different locations and started to pull out of the area. As I was pulling the last spot in that area I saw another fisher in one of my competitions sets. That was four fisher harvested along this three mile stretch. Later on in the season I ran into these guys and we were discussing the situation. Turns out after I pulled out some other guys set the area the last couple weeks of the season. I found out after the season that seven (7) fisher were taken from that three mile stretch. I havent caught one in that area since! Regards dear Mr. Papabear, i have read your entire post and am truly great full for your allowing us the opportunity to pick at your knowledge on this subject. after reading this post I would pose this question to keep my supply of fisher healthy and be able to trap them in the future, I have an area of perhaps 1 square mile of prime fisher habitat and two years ago I took 1 female and this year I just took the very nice male (see my post here) . Now I am feeling I should not be greedy and pull my sets. what would be your advice on this sir? Thank you so much for sharing your experience! Your friend, Dale
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paintedpaw
Retired NYSDEC Lake George Ranger
Posts: 691
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Post by paintedpaw on Dec 8, 2014 17:25:33 GMT -5
I too would Thank Mr. PapaBear for sharing his knowledge of trapping, particularly fisher. I can remember when sharing Knowledge of trapping was taboo and no one shared anything. Virtually everything Mr.PapaBear has written I am in agreement with and I have learned some things. Thank you again. I do wish that the weather forecasters could be more specific. With this currant storm, snow depth can possibly give me big trouble pulling my sets on wednesday alomg some of those back in log roads.
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Post by papabear on Dec 8, 2014 22:21:49 GMT -5
Dear Mr. Dale (Bad0351), It is my understanding (from biologists who study fisher) ,that in good habitat, a fishers home/hunting range is about 3~5 square miles that extends out to about 8 or so square miles during the winter as food sources are depleted. My catch records prove that in "prime" habitat thier ranges must overlap or there is a higher population density of fisher per sqaure mile. To answer your question, one would have to take into consideration the area surrounding and beyond the square mile you indicate. Also having some idea of trapping pressure from competitors in the surronding area should be taken into consideration. I think it would be safe to assume that if you stick with limiting yourself to one or two fisher per season (or every other season) in that area, and your competition is minimal you shouldn't harm your population. I find conversations with biologists who study fisher and other trappers, trapping fisher in the same area to be very useful information.
Thank you to everyone for the kind comments about this thread. As some of you know, last summer I had some health issues. I had promised Mr. Jones to do a demo at the Rondy at Fenner but was unable to attend. At the NYSTA convention Mr. Jones presented me the proceeds of a collection taken for me at the Summer Rondy. Also at the NYSTA convention Mr. Gamba presented me with a gift from the Trappers Relief Fund. I am by no means an expert but I hope that in some small way the information I share will serve to give back towards what you, my friends, have so freely given to me. I enjoy this forum immensely and place great value in the friendships of my trapping brothers and sisters!
Mr. Paintedpaw, Ive decided to ere on the side of caution and pull my remaining fisher sets today as I am reluctant to rely on the weather forecasters predictions, lol. Good luck to you and anybody else hanging in there until Wednesday. I will finish compiling my notes and will be sharing my observations in the next day or so.
Regards
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tmc
#2 Newhouse
Posts: 2,447
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Post by tmc on Dec 8, 2014 23:37:48 GMT -5
Thanks for going into more detail on the greed vs. hunger issue too, papabear. I guess I forgot my old lessons on the wanton ways of weasels, lol! You're right. I hope someone resurrects this thread in advance of next year's fisher season opener!
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paintedpaw
Retired NYSDEC Lake George Ranger
Posts: 691
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Post by paintedpaw on Dec 9, 2014 8:18:07 GMT -5
Mr. Papabear, I too have decided to pull traps today because of predicted weather. Good luck to you and I hope your health is better.
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Post by Lonny Mattison on Dec 9, 2014 8:35:24 GMT -5
Mr. Papabear...you have done your share and then some. In my eyes...thanks.
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Post by bearman60 on Dec 9, 2014 18:56:44 GMT -5
papabear,you are a godsend to all of us who havent had the opportunity to trap fishers.thank you for all your sharing of your knowledge with us on all trapping issues! god bless
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Post by papabear on Dec 10, 2014 21:33:50 GMT -5
Dear Friends, Following is a synopsis of this years fisher season. I for the most part cherry picked locations from several lines and combined them to form one line. The locations I picked are ones that I count on to produce fisher.
On November 4th & 5th I set a total of 29 traps at 17 locations intended for fisher. The breakdown is as listed. 2~ locations with a single running pole each. (beagles occasionally run in the area 2~ locations with a running pole and a box 10~ locations with a flower pot set and a box 2~ locations with a single flower pot set. (because of nearby competition) 1~ location with a single box. (because of nearby competition)
All the boxes were baited with a homemade 4 meat ground bait and a wad of sheeps wool. The running poles and flower pot sets were baited with salted fish, a wad of sheeps wool and were lured ~ 4 flower pots lured with Nightowls "Plum Loco" and 2 running poles with Clint Locklears "Cat Collector" the rest recieved a fingernail sized smear of my "Klondike".
The catches: Running poles ~ 3 fisher, 1 ermine Flower pot sets ~ 3 fisher, 4 grey foxes, 3 raccoons, 1 mink, 1 ermine Box sets ~ 5 fisher, 2 raccoons, 1 bear who thankfully got away
"Cat Collector" and salted fish... 1 fisher "Plum Loco" and salted fish...2 fisher, 2 grey fox, 1 raccoon (at only 4 sets) "Klondike" and salted fish...3 fisher, 2 grey fox, 2 raccoon, 1 mink, 2 ermine "4 meat bait" .....5 fisher, 2 raccoons.
I caught no fisher on the last four checks. Because of the below normal cold temperatures the snow was a hard crust and I couldnt detect fisher tracks but there were deer and coyote tracks at a high percentage of the remaining locations so Im confident the lures odors were still somewhat detectable. However I do honestly believe a little dose of skunk may have been helpful the last 2 weeks.
Regards
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Post by Lonny Mattison on Dec 11, 2014 4:12:48 GMT -5
A nice fisher season.
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