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Post by kirkwooder on Sept 18, 2014 6:34:49 GMT -5
Can anyone shed some light on why the hunting season for coyotes opens three and a half weeks before the trapping season, here in western NY? I can understand why the trapping season opens when it does, coinciding with coon, fox, and the like, but is there a reason the hunting season doesn't open the same day trapping season does?
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tmc
#2 Newhouse
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Post by tmc on Sept 18, 2014 6:55:22 GMT -5
Lets the deer hunters feel like they're contributing to thinning out the coyote population? IDK, I've never seen the wisdom in it either, unless the state somehow differentiates between hunting for control and trapping for fur...
Hey, here's another one: WHY can we only shoot CROWS on Friday-Saturday-Sunday-Monday?!?!?! It's been law for longer than I've been ALIVE!!! It is absolutely senseless to my way of thinking... They CANNOT be exterminated, time has proven that. Near where I live is a hill that was named Crow Hill from the first time people started travelling through here, even before they settled this area, because that's where the crows congregated by the thousands. Then the crow population was successfully reduced, and for a couple of generations people wondered why it was ever named that since there were never that many crows up there. But today? WOW... they're back. Freakin' ISIS of the bird world... And they seem to know when we're allowed to shoot them!
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Post by trappermac on Sept 18, 2014 7:13:20 GMT -5
The fur primes up quicker for hunters than it does for trappers....;-)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 7:29:16 GMT -5
I would think it's because fox and racoon season's don't start till the 25th and any trap would catch both
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Post by kirkwooder on Sept 18, 2014 7:41:09 GMT -5
But why not open the hunting season with fox, coon, skunk, etc......
The whole crow season has something to do with a treaty with Mexico, believe it or not, the crow is the Mexican national bird. Politics!
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Post by cnyh2ofowler on Sept 18, 2014 7:47:39 GMT -5
As far as the coyotes go I think you are right on as far as the deer hunters being allowed to kill them. Most coyotes, after taking a broadhead are no good for sale so it does not matter if they are prime or not. As far as the crows go, this was an agreement made between the Mexican government and our own fish and wildlife people. The crow is sacred in Mexico so they did not like the fact that we killed them all the time, they had no limits on ducks in Mexico and that pissed us off so we said we would limit our crow take if they put a limit on ducks (which they don't follow) The result is too many crows which is hurting our duck population here. I turkey hunt in the spring next to a swamp that a lot of ducks nest in. There are hundreds of duck egg shells littering the road where the crows carry them to eat. This is happening across the state, with many bird species. The crows wont screw with the geese and that is why there are so many local geese. It's all connected.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
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Post by austinp on Sept 18, 2014 7:53:12 GMT -5
coyotes are viewed by some (not all) trappers as a valued furbearer, and viewed by many more people as vermin. So to balance the feelings of a majority, hunting seasons are extended.
on a sidenote, my close friend's elderly mother was outside her front door moving groceries from the car to home when an adult male coyote attacked her little dog right in the yard at 2pm in the afternoon. She heard the dog cry out, pretty soon it dashed right past her and thru the open front door with said coyote hot on its heels. She said the coyote only balked at going in the house after her dog because she was standing right there on the porch herself.
dog went to the vets for minor surgery, vet bill was several hundred dollars. the same coyote was seen before and since then right in the immediate area, it is perfectly healthy, not diseased. Events like those are what keep coyotes on the vermin list, not strictly valued furbearers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 7:59:41 GMT -5
coyotes are viewed by some (not all) trappers as a valued furbearer, and viewed by many more people as vermin. So to balance the feelings of a majority, hunting seasons are extended. on a sidenote, my close friend's elderly mother was outside her front door moving groceries from the car to home when an adult male coyote attacked her little dog right in the yard at 2pm in the afternoon. She heard the dog cry out, pretty soon it dashed right past her and thru the open front door with said coyote hot on its heels. She said the coyote only balked at going in the house after her dog because she was standing right there on the porch herself. dog went to the vets for minor surgery, vet bill was several hundred dollars. the same coyote was seen before and since then right in the immediate area, it is perfectly healthy, not diseased. Events like those are what keep coyotes on the vermin list, not strictly valued furbearers. Austin, You should have offered to carry that ladies groceries.
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Post by Lonny Mattison on Sept 18, 2014 8:02:38 GMT -5
To make the dumb ones who want it open year around happy.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
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Post by austinp on Sept 18, 2014 8:14:18 GMT -5
AJ, her son is an avid woodsman who has a full mount coyote in his house amongst many other things... and his son is the fledgling trapper who joins me on the line and was with me past two NYSTA conventions, too. This all happened just off their front yard and onto their neighboring mother/grandmother's house!
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
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Post by austinp on Sept 18, 2014 8:15:58 GMT -5
To make the dumb ones who want it open year around happy. I'm rather indifferent to coyotes in general, but if they caught a specific disease which wiped them all out and in turn restored red & gray fox populations to historical, I'd be all for that fantasy scenario
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 8:18:35 GMT -5
AJ, her son is an avid woodsman who has a full mount coyote in his house amongst many other things... and his son is the fledgling trapper who joins me on the line and was with me past two NYSTA conventions, too. This all happened just off their front yard and onto their neighboring mother/grandmother's house! Austin, Just saying, you could should carry groceries for old ladies. Mind your manners
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Sept 18, 2014 8:26:49 GMT -5
good point... I'll keep that in mind
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Post by trappermac on Sept 18, 2014 8:55:03 GMT -5
on a sidenote, my close friend's elderly mother was outside her front door moving groceries from the car to home when an adult male coyote attacked her little dog right in the yard at 2pm in the afternoon. She heard the dog cry out, pretty soon it dashed right past her and thru the open front door with said coyote hot on its heels. She said the coyote only balked at going in the house after her dog because she was standing right there on the porch herself. dog went to the vets for minor surgery, vet bill was several hundred dollars. the same coyote was seen before and since then right in the immediate area, it is perfectly healthy, not diseased. Events like those are what keep coyotes on the vermin list, not strictly valued furbearers. See now if we had cable restraints there'd be less a chance of this happening............poor doggie
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tmc
#2 Newhouse
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Post by tmc on Sept 18, 2014 12:48:14 GMT -5
lol... I remember one time the dog's whimpering (she was in the garage because it was winter) woke me. It was about 2AM. I went down to the back door, opened it a crack, and there on the wood stack near the door was a big ol' coyote, looking at me almost nose-to-nose, honestly barely 18" away from my face. Barely a split second later, I jumped back and it leapt away tearing for cover in the orchard. A neighbor, a retired stoneworker who is a fellow trapper, came home one day in early January a few years ago and as he pulled into the driveway he saw a coyote running from the back of his house and into the woods. He walked around back to see what was going on, and under one window the ground was all muddied up with tracks, then he looked up and there were muddy paw prints and scratches on the siding. Looking up just a little more, he saw why: Sleeping on the windowsill was his wife's cat. He set a trap there, and over the remainder of the season that year he caught three adult, healthy coyotes. I just never heard if he tied the cat to the sill as a visual aid.
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Post by bluetickboy on Sept 18, 2014 15:58:54 GMT -5
The Oct. 1st opener of bow season totally screwed the hound running guys out of 2 weeks of running time. No way can you run hounds during deer season. New York makes stupid decisions. The only people out there will be the callers and they don't get many. They'll make deer season 4 months long next thing you know. Can you tell I have hounds? Lol
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
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Post by austinp on Sept 18, 2014 16:24:18 GMT -5
with so many varied interests in such a brief window of time, seasons have to overlap somewhere. It's not the DEC fault that a tiny fractional percentile of guys out during bow season would shoot at a dog... same guys would do so during gun season, too. Slobs are slobs, regardless.
meanwhile, chasing with hounds in early October with full foliage and standing corn cannot be much of a high-percentage harvest per chase, either
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Post by mole on Sept 18, 2014 16:59:32 GMT -5
The Crow deal is a Federal deal has to do with Mexico. Some of our Ducks winter in Mexico and Mexican crows come into the United States. This deal protects our ducks and their crows which eat some beetle that hurts their crops.
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Post by saquelie on Sept 18, 2014 17:04:34 GMT -5
What value does a yote have in early Oct ? Wanton waste Dec, should be ashamed.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Sept 18, 2014 17:14:02 GMT -5
not much less value than they have when dead prime in early winter, lol
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
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Post by austinp on Sept 18, 2014 17:15:28 GMT -5
imo this is no different than the current bobcat seasons which are several months too early for prime cat fur. It's all about the harvest experience, nothing about peak prime fur in bobcats
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Post by tony1967 on Sept 18, 2014 18:40:58 GMT -5
imo this is no different than the current bobcat seasons which are several months too early for prime cat fur. It's all about the harvest experience, nothing about peak prime fur in bobcats Exactly. DEC told my friend and i when we asked about that, that it was because more guys would pursue them early on when the weather was nice as opposed to later in the year when it was bitter cold.
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Post by kirkwooder on Sept 18, 2014 20:12:57 GMT -5
I'm not overly fond of the stinky devil's, however, I have been granted permission to trap a small tract of property that has been off limits to all trappers for years, with the strict requirement that I target coyotes early in the season. Seems the fellow that owns the property has been seeing a few on his trail cams and not all that many deer. I had asked for permission to trap coon there several years ago and was denied, but this fellow remembered me and asked me if I would trap just the yote's. Well, being the good fellow that I am, I agreed to attempt to take a few of his deer eaters, but assured him that I couldn't possibly keep all the other critters totally out of my sets. This in turn led him to ask what else I might catch. He was deathly afraid I would catch his deer! ( What does he think I would use to catch coyotes? ) After assuring him that his deer were safe, he agreed to let me set for coon as well. He asked me to try and get as many coyotes as I could in the first week of the month! I had to show him the book before he would believe that the trapping season didn't open until the 25th. Anyway, it just strikes me as very odd that it is the only season that doesn't coincide starting dates.
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Post by erict on Sept 18, 2014 20:31:43 GMT -5
Regarding crows - here are the facts from page 160 of this link: US Fish & Wildlife Service - Issuance of Annual Regulations Permitting the Hunting of Migratory Birds"Crows are defined as migratory birds under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act. Under Federal laws and regulations, crows are not listed as game birds, but hunting and depredation orders are allowed over most of their range. Federal regulations allow States to establish dates and durations of hunting seasons, bag and possession limits, and methods of taking crows, subject to limitations defined in 50 CFR ยง20.133. The hunting season for crows can have a maximum of 124 days within a calendar year because of specific provisions included in the treaty with Mexico, and should not coincide with the peak of the nesting period within a State. However, some States allow crow hunting four days a week, extending the open season nearly eight months. Most States have no daily bag limit on crows. " Regarding coyotes - October 1 coincides with the beginning of fall turkey season for the eastern half of the state. It is also the opener for southern tier archery deer seasons. I suspect the number of coyotes harvested by hunting during that time is low. It provides those sportsmen with another opportunity and most people shooting them probably care little about the fur value - they either get it mounted or rejoice in taking a "deer killer". Still, it is a bit odd, as coyotes are managed as furbearers and not as unprotected or nuisance species like they do in some other states.
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Post by trappermac on Sept 19, 2014 4:16:10 GMT -5
The coyote walks that fine line between furbearer and vermin...the early start and late closure of the hunting season for them is probably to satisfy not only the hound guys but also the hard core deer guys who think the season should be open all year. I have no problem with the season as it currently is.
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