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Jul 28, 2014 14:52:44 GMT -5
Post by bobsamuelson on Jul 28, 2014 14:52:44 GMT -5
Walleyed, when the regulation came out, many expressed their displeasure, on this site! Several even stated that they would change to 280's just so they could avoid the regulation! Then, once it was discovered that the Duke 330's did not meed the criteria for the trigger regs, several stated, on here, that they were going to change to Duke to also avoid the reg! Price may have been a factor, but avoiding the trigger reg also was a factor!
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Jul 28, 2014 15:41:53 GMT -5
Post by walleyed on Jul 28, 2014 15:41:53 GMT -5
Walleyed, when the regulation came out, many expressed their displeasure, on this site! Several even stated that they would change to 280's just so they could avoid the regulation! Then, once it was discovered that the Duke 330's did not meed the criteria for the trigger regs, several stated, on here, that they were going to change to Duke to also avoid the reg! Price may have been a factor, but avoiding the trigger reg also was a factor! Bob, No Doubt there are, in fact, Trappers who are looking for a Sneaky way around the Otter Avoidance Trigger Regulations, and yes, Some have unwisely expressed their untoward Intentions on this forum. They are their Own (and Trapping's) Worst Enemy. These individual's need to THINK before they Hit ENTER. I am simply pointing out the fact that there are also other Potentially Legitimate reasons for using The DUKE 10 X 9's beside Trapper Malfeasance. Good post. w
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Jul 28, 2014 15:50:19 GMT -5
Post by walleyed on Jul 28, 2014 15:50:19 GMT -5
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Jul 28, 2014 17:19:15 GMT -5
Post by bobsamuelson on Jul 28, 2014 17:19:15 GMT -5
No doubt about it, Walleyed! Some had legitimate reasons for buying Dukes, primarily price! But as I stated, there were some who only bought them to circumvent the regulation, and posted it here! I have also stated before that some of the recent problems that have plagued us are a direct result of some trappers not caring the consequences of their actions! Others are the result of ignorance of the laws and regulations!
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Post by trappermac on Jul 28, 2014 17:41:28 GMT -5
I use some Duke 330's when I beaver trap and have always used the offset trigger reg on them. I've run into other trappers while afield with Duke 330’s and they’ve also always had the trigger set up per reg. Personally, (call me slow to pick up on things) until this thread came out I never knew the reg wasn’t required on them. I always thought that if the trap measured 10 inches anywhere (horizontal or vertical) that it was required. If it was talked about openly on this forum then I missed it, and have been on here quite a while.
From Herm I’d like to know why the trappers in Region 8 don’t want the fisher around in any numbers?
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Jul 28, 2014 17:54:48 GMT -5
Post by austinp on Jul 28, 2014 17:54:48 GMT -5
I sold all my #330s except for 9" Dukes to purposely circumvent the asnine, stupid, worthless regs for otter avoidance in the southern tier. Flat out, straight up only reason why.
Listen up all who care to hear reality: the otter reintro program was 20+ years ago. If the southern tier of NY does not have oodles of otter populating every trickle of water by now, guess what? They never will. It was either a successful experiment or it was not. Sugar-coating the truth does not change the truth.
Anyone who thinks those trigger regs are worth a d(arn) have obviously never checked traps where hip-caught young beaver are waiting for them to arrive. Personally speaking, I like all my catches dispatched by the trap itself when using #330s. If there ain't enough otter around to survive some normal trapping pressure by now, there never will be in your lifetimes.
Period, end of story.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Jul 28, 2014 18:01:36 GMT -5
Post by austinp on Jul 28, 2014 18:01:36 GMT -5
What are the odds 280 will be next? How is the otter restoration going? the DEC knows how the otter population is... spotty and sporadic. The introduction resulted in a thin, patchwork fringe population at best. Most of our diehard fishermen and waterfowlers tell me they saw a live otter once, or never see them at all here in the southern zone, Me too. I spend as much or more time near / on water in the fall as 95% of the people in NY and I've had one live otters sighting once in my life. It was about ten years ago at 6am in the morning where a pair of yearlings swam a local roadside ditch here. Other than that? Never saw anything more than tracks or toilets once in awhile. Meanwhile, I see dozens of live mink every year to compare populations.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Jul 28, 2014 18:09:12 GMT -5
Post by austinp on Jul 28, 2014 18:09:12 GMT -5
The DEC was not happy when trappers changed to 280's to avoid the trigger regs! Then when they learned that there were trappers circumventing the regulation by buying the Duke 330's, they saw it as a loophole to close. If those in the closed otter areas would comply with the intent, not catching otters, then they wouldn't be tweeking the reg! I don't know how many otters are caught in the Duke 330's as I don't know if anyone knows. I don't like the reg any better than anyone else! But sometimes, we need to bend a little before we lose! I disagree. I think it's well past time to ask the DEC what their outlook is for the otter population here right now, today. Then ask them what they project as a population ten, twenty years from now. If the reintroduction with all of its political popularity failed to establish a solid, robust, thriving population by now, just exactly when is that expected to happen? Urban sprawl, land use and water table drainage will only continue to erode existing water tables. The number of otter alive and swimming in the southern zone right now is the highest number you will ever see. Next year it will be less, year after less yet. Each year there is less water in NY than there was the year before. Unfortunately, nothing at all is being done to even slow that process down, let alone halt or reverse.
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Jul 28, 2014 18:38:44 GMT -5
Post by jdpaint on Jul 28, 2014 18:38:44 GMT -5
I was being vague about the poor catches but let er rip Austin.I still dont understand why there was only a couple of sentences about it in the TRAPLINES ,when i do believe it was talked about at the April meeting, and 100 s if not 1000 s of 330 s are affected.Correct me if im wrong ,but there is not alot of info to go by.Did we bend on more trigger regs and not lose a fisher season ?
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Jul 28, 2014 18:41:47 GMT -5
Post by walleyed on Jul 28, 2014 18:41:47 GMT -5
I sold all my #330s except for 9" Dukes to purposely circumvent the asnine, stupid, worthless regs for otter avoidance in the southern tier. Flat out, straight up only reason why. Listen up all who care to hear reality: the otter reintro program was 20+ years ago. If the southern tier of NY does not have oodles of otter populating every trickle of water by now, guess what? They never will. It was either a successful experiment or it was not. Sugar-coating the truth does not change the truth. Anyone who thinks those trigger regs are worth a d(arn) have obviously never checked traps where hip-caught young beaver are waiting for them to arrive. Personally speaking, I like all my catches dispatched by the trap itself when using #330s. If there ain't enough otter around to survive some normal trapping pressure by now, there never will be in your lifetimes. Period, end of story. Geeze Baldy, Don't Hold Back, and Don't Sugar Coat it............ Tell Us How you really Feel about this issue. w
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Post by camohoyt340 on Jul 28, 2014 19:34:43 GMT -5
I agree with everything you said Austinp.
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Jul 28, 2014 19:34:48 GMT -5
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Post by REDNECK on Jul 28, 2014 19:34:48 GMT -5
As stated before I did not know 330s were void to the law but I would still run the triggers regs and I to buy duke 330s for the price good topic
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Jul 29, 2014 5:11:19 GMT -5
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Post by bobsamuelson on Jul 29, 2014 5:11:19 GMT -5
jd, I don't understand your thinking we bent or gave up something with "more trigger regulations". The DEC saw a loophole and closed it. Did we really give up anything more? I guess it depends on ones perspective, but I don't believe we did!
The fisher management plan is a proposal at this time. The Furbearer Management team has presented the JTI committee with its preliminary plan, and the JTI committee has voiced it's concerns and opposition to parts. We have been assured that there will be no quotas or bag limits! However, there may be some WMU's that the trapping dates may change!
The plan is similar to the bobcat plan and the otter management plan that is proposed for after the fisher plan. These plans are intended to benefit us as trappers, while protecting the resource(s) that we enjoy! One of the arguments that antis use is that we indiscriminately trap until the species we are pursuing are wiped out! We know that is not factual, but these plans put controls in place to ensure our great grandchildren have trapping opportunities.
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Jul 29, 2014 7:04:56 GMT -5
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Post by tony1967 on Jul 29, 2014 7:04:56 GMT -5
Austin, I agree the reg is stupid, but it's still the law. Heck, we caught a female mink and a small rat last year in 330's with offset triggers. I'm pretty sure otter would be caught just as easily. Yet, we still offset because we didn't want to get in a pissin match with a dec officer who may not know the regs. Wasn't worth it as far as we were concerned, just my opinion.
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Jul 29, 2014 8:25:37 GMT -5
Post by trappermac on Jul 29, 2014 8:25:37 GMT -5
Austin - you've said there were no fox, no coyote, no rats in your area the past few years....turns out there were...why believe you now regarding otters? :-)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Jul 29, 2014 10:11:37 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2014 10:11:37 GMT -5
Tell it like it is Austin!
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Jul 29, 2014 20:51:39 GMT -5
Post by walleyed on Jul 29, 2014 20:51:39 GMT -5
Austin - you've said there were no fox, no coyote, no rats in your area the past few years....turns out there were...why believe you now regarding otters? :-) There's Migrant Otter hiding in the Broadleaf Cattail Mass at the West River/High Tor WMA that came up The Canandaigua Outlet Drainage from The Erie/Barge Canal at Lyons, N.Y. after being Cranked Out at The Montezuma Refuge Otter Factory. Geez, Everybody Knows That !!! w
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Jul 29, 2014 20:58:14 GMT -5
Post by walleyed on Jul 29, 2014 20:58:14 GMT -5
[quote source="/post/176851/thread"the DEC knows how the otter population is... spotty and sporadic. I spend as much or more time near / on water in the fall as 95% of the people in NY and I've had one live otters sighting once in my life. Dude, Lay off the Homegrown when your on the water and your situational awareness of the Timid, Secretive and Cryptive Southern Zone Otter will Increase. w
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Aug 5, 2014 19:50:09 GMT -5
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Post by bunkerhillred on Aug 5, 2014 19:50:09 GMT -5
Just to let y'all know, this thread led me to renew my membership. I have been putting it off but even on a tight budget, supporting trapping for NYS is a major priority. Thank you for motivating, I will be sure to keep up on my renewals!
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Post by walleyed on Aug 5, 2014 19:57:05 GMT -5
Just to let y'all know, this thread led me to renew my membership. I have been putting it off but even on a tight budget, supporting trapping for NYS is a major priority. Thank you for motivating, I will be sure to keep up on my renewals! Atta Boy, Manny !!! w
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