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Post by dinorocks on Mar 30, 2014 19:35:04 GMT -5
I would like to tan a couple small beaver pelts I put up this year (too small to sell and too small to send out for professional tanning. I have the deer hunter's and trapper's hide tanning formula (in the orange bottle) on hand but not sure if I can skip the salting and salt solution step because the pelt are already air dried. I don't mind hydrating so I can wash the fur. If I wash the pelt in dawn, should I then soak in salt solution or vise versa, or just wash the pelt in dawn, air dry a bit and then use tanning formula from step 7 below. The beaver pelts will be used to cover the seat of a wood chair (i.e. log) at my primitive camp...garment-quality finished product is not needed.
I plan to call the company tomorrow to see what they suggest but wanted to hear your thoughts.
Thanks for any suggestions!
PS. below are the instructions that come with the tanning solution;
Directions: follow steps carefully for best results
• 1. For best results, start with fresh, green skin. Carefully scrape or cut off all meat and fat until skin is very clean. If applicable, skin out ears and paws, split tail. If skin has been dried, you should first soak in plain water, just long enough to soften. (For red or grey fox use salt water, ½ lb. salt/gal. at room temperature.)
• 2. To tan hair-on: Salt the flesh side with TABLE SALT. Work PLENTY OF SALT into entire hide including ears, paws, etc. Fold salted hide flesh on flesh, roll up and leave 24 hrs. Then scrape off old salt and repeat with clean salt for another 24 hrs. Then scrape off salt again and go to Step 4.
• 3. To tan hair-off: (e.g. buckskin) Immerse hide in plain water. NO SALT. Change water daily until hair loosens (usually 4-6 days of deer or elk). Pull or scrape off hair is removed. Rinse well in clean water and go to Step 4
• 4. Prepare a salt bath by mixing 1\2 lb. of table salt per gal. of hot water. (For hair-off tanning only, e.g. buckskin, add 1 capful of Clorox per 5 gall. of salt bath). Mix salt bath thoroughly and let cool. Then Immerse hide 6-8 hrs. (except red or grey fox just 15 min.). Remove, rinse in cool water and drain.
• 5. Using a sharp knife, thin skin as much as possible, removing any remaining membrane. A wire wheel can be used if skin is allowed to almost dry first.
• 6. After skin is thinned, wash in warm water with liquid dish soap (e.g. Dawn) to remove salt and grease. Very greasy skins such as raccoon, beaver and bear should be washed twice with dish soap to remove all grease. Then hang to drain
• 7. Warm Hide Tanning Formula (HTG) by sitting bottle in pot of hot tap water for 30 min. The skin should be at room temperature, semidry, but still moist and flexible. Shake warm HTF well and apply an even layer to the flesh side. Apply with paint brush, or by hand wearing rubber gloves. Massage firmly into all areas of the skin.
• 8. Fold the skin flesh side unto itself and leave overnight (12-16 hours). If it is a cased skin, just turn it fur out and hang at room temperature, away from direct heat. This will allow the fur to dry while the hide is tanning. After this 12-16 hr. tanning time, open the flesh side to the air (or if a cased pelt, turn the flesh side out again) and let dry slowly over 2-3 days. As it dries, periodically pull and stretch the skin until it is completely dry and soft. If the skin is still stiff in a few spots, dampen those areas with warm water, reapply warm HTF and repeat.
• 9. OPTIONAL: When the skin is fully tanned and dry it can be thinned further with a wire wheel or coarse sandpaper if a higher degree of suppleness is desired. Also, pulling the tanned hide back and forth over a tight rope works very well for softening
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Post by dinorocks on Apr 3, 2014 7:15:53 GMT -5
I received some great information that really helped me understand tanning … I thought would be helpful to share with others (the gentleman who provided this info was ok with me sharing). The first correspondence was in reply to a bunch of posts (mine included)… The second correspondence was a PM to me regarding a few more detailed questions… Please note the info below is one person’s opinion…I’m sure there are lots of ways to go about this… I hope it helps you as much as it helped me!
Correspondence #1
“I'm always interested when I see "battery acid" stated as not being "safe" or disposal friendly. As someone with a chemistry background....both organic and inorganic....I'd like to understand the "reasoning" behind this blanket statement.
Specifically regarding Ph Explain how "safety" acid can be more "safe" than the pH of "battery" acid. While we're at it....let's stop calling it "battery acid". It is sulfuric acid...and let's call "safety acid" what it is...citric acid. Sad news.....both work best around a pH of 1-1.5 and both have "equal" acidity. Did you know your stomach acid has a pH of 1? That's got to be dangerous stuff....LOL.
Disposal "dangers"....where does this come from? When neutralized with baking soda.....you are left with a salt, a sulfate and water. No safety issues.
Only possible "danger" could be in mixing....as battery electrolyte is a stronger molar solution. That goes for ANY stronger molar acid or base. If you can fill your lawnmower gas tank safely....you should be able to handle mixing battery electrolyte into water....LOL. Or...if you feel like drinking your pickling agent....citric will be "safer". No problem....don't drink it...LOL.
So.....remember....any acid at a pH of 1 has the same acidity. Doesn't matter if it is oxalic, nitric, sulfuric, citric, acetic, etc.
I use sulfuric in PREFERENCE to citric acid in a pickle....and I have used both extensively. Why?....the sulfuric holds it's pH value longer. Doubt it...LOL. Try this. Mix up 5 gallons of citric and 5 gallons or sulfuric. Now add your hides and let them stay in it for 3 months. The citric(safety) acid will have lost it's original pH value and the hair will have slipped. Sulfuric will not. As a "torture test" I have gone as long as 6 months and not had an issue with slippage in sulfuric. I have seen slippage happen with citric as the pH will drop in as little as 2 days.
So.....chemistry.... or buy into the "safety" sales pitch.....your call. Either or both or a myriad of other acids will work adequately. Your choice.
Back to the original question I'd rehydrate the skin you have. Keep all water temps cold. NEVER wring the hides. I'd recommend a MUCH better degreaser than dish soap. I prefer Rittels degreaser. I have tried everything from commercial range hood degreasing agents to "gasoline" and the Rittels is the best product out there that I have found. Proceed with the tan of your choice. I'd suspect the stuff you are using is simply a sulfonated oil. HHMmm there's those sulfer derivative compounds....which are the same ones found in the sulfuric (battery) acid. These give EXCELLENT protection against insect damages. Brain tanned pelts in comparison are readily consumed by insects.
Your small beavers will tan great and break very easily. They are thin skinned and not at all like "adult" beavers with thick skins. I've tanned a few beavers...LOL.”
Correspondence #2
HI So...here's the credentials....LOL. I've probably tanned about 1,000 animals...from moles to moose. I've used most every method out there. Brain tan, chrome tan, vegetable tans, synthetic tans etc. So.......I've pretty much been there, done that. I rarely post on tanning as it is always full of arm chair exerts (who know very little if anything)and I don't feel like typing a small book trying to educate. Used to teach science and mathematics....so I know which end is up when it comes to repeatable scientific reality....LOL.
So.....small beaver...say around 20 pounds and under are GREAT to tan. In fact...I prefer the small ones to the big ones as they make great mittens and hats and the skins break very easily. Big ones.....I catch them as high as the 90s as "normal"...with most in the 50-75lb range being hard to tan as they have very thick neck/shoulder skin. You have to either shave this thin or it will be stiff. Bobcat, fox, coyote,otter....easy to tan. Skunk, coon....very fatty.
Degreasing will greatly improve ALL of your tanning results. But...good fleshing and washing in "detergent" will look after the small beaver and be acceptable on fox, coyote and sometimes bobcat. Fat is your enemy....it is "waterproof". I have tried most everything....simple green, dawn, several industrial grease hood degreasers, automotive engine degreaser, naptha,.....on and on. The very best product is Rittels degreaser. Very nice neutral odor, not dangerous. Seems to be some type of concentrated low suds detergent. I do not know about Alconox. Not familiar with it. If you flesh well.....and if you reflesh several times (every 2-3 days)of the pickle....you can get by without a really good degreaser...except on the really greasy skins. So...on your small beaver..you'll be fine with most any detergent.
Eventually, I would suggest you get into tanning with Rittels EZ-100 agent. This is garment grade tanning, will not wash out and is what the commercial tanneries use. It is what I use pretty much exclusively for about the last 8 -10 years.
Now salt is something that is highly misunderstood. I NEVER salt any skins. I go from trapped, to skinned, to fleshed and then immediately into the pickle (which contains salt...it's a saturated solution). I have done extensive testing and have never found salting to do anything beneficial. The whole idea of salt is to slow/stop bacterial action. Well...at pH of 1....that is almost non-existant....so what good is salt? Yet..there are those that swear it sets the hair...not verified in anything but "folklore". I'd only salt if I had to hold something over for a couple days and had no refrigeration.
I use sulfuric pretty much exclusively now. It's cheap, contains sulfer (one of the best preservatives out there) and holds it's pH for a long time. Safetee acid sucks. It is citric acid and the pH will drop up to 2 units....in say 3-4 days. So the "safe" pH of 1....is now 2.5-3 and some bacteria will work at that and hair will slip. I typically use 15-17 gallon rubbermaid tubs and tan 4-5 large beavers in them. 8 gallons of water fits in plus the critters. Once set up.....with sulfuric......it will hold for 3-6 months no problems. Saftee acid and try that....you have "soup". Naturally...monitor the pH...and this is in cooler temps. I have not tried muriatic....as sulfuric has the sulfer. The "tanning" agent in your product is the sulfonated oil. This does an OK job...but you can do much better with other products cush as the EZ100 (a synthetic tan).
You need to have a hide to "fresh" status..as in it moves, bends etc. for it to absorb the tanning agents. If you go into a pickle....I just toss them in....even if dry. In a couple hours, they soften up and I turn until they all fit in. If it is dry (flint)it will not absorb the chemicals correctly.
I like the pro-plus oil. It penetrates well. But...your method does not use this. Whatever you do....start breaking the leather BEFORE it is dry. Once it is to getting dry....as in the outside edges (belly area on beavers) starts to dry first.....get to work on it. There should be about 2-3 more days before it would be "dry". Several times a day break the hide. I roll it in every angle of the compass....fur in....then bend it for every inch. Reroll to different compass point and repeat. Also sit at a chair and stretch it with your knees. I put it over the knees, grab it with a hand on each side and spread your legs....think reverse thigh master...LOL. Way more power. You'll see it stretch with EZ100.
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Post by silverfox on Apr 13, 2014 5:31:41 GMT -5
you got some good info here, (ive been tanning critters since 97) i agree with most everything above, some products are more of a "preference" thing (ford vs chevy yada yada)but the mechanics is the same, the ES100 has given me the softest tan of all the products ive tried as well (generally a nice white leather as well)and i use it for soft tan items, i too do not salt if im going straight to the pickle, and i use a flesher to thin after 3-4 days in the pickle, one technique ive found for breaking hides by hand to make it a little easier is to restretch the hide on your stretcher and then brush on the oil (warmed) once the oil is absorbed and begins to dry (not when its dry but begins) remove from stretcher and proceed with breaking, by having the hide stretched tight its doesnt allow the fibers to shrink up as much and breaks with about half the effort and time, good luck!!!
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Post by dinorocks on Apr 13, 2014 22:06:26 GMT -5
Great tip regarding application of tanning solution while the pelt is on the stretcher (with the fibers stretched)...my arms are still sore from breaking the last couple pelts...your info will make the "next time" come much sooner! I plan to give the EZ-100 a try before I get into making my own pickle. Thanks!
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Post by dinorocks on May 16, 2014 7:05:42 GMT -5
I wanted to post an update of my tanning experiences... I tanned two small beaver hides using the deer hunters and trappers hide tanning formula (in the orange bottle). I first hydrated the dried pelts and then washed them several times in dish some to remove the oils. After they dried to damp status (room temp), I worked the tanning dressing (warmed)into the flesh side, folded over so the dressed flesh side was not exposed to the air and allowed to site overnight. The next day I opened the hide up and let the flesh side start to dry. Before it was dry (or as it started to dry) I began breaking the hide (to soften)...I cheated and used a wire brush on a drill on the now tanned surface to remove any dangling membrane and to help soften it up a bit more. The process was not too hard. Next time I will tan before drying. I will also be as diligent as I was to break (soften) the hide while it dries as if it dries to fast, it will become very stiff. Next I tried to brain tan some deer hides I had in the freezer. Well, they were in my freezer until mid-winter when my freezer broke and I had to stash the hides outside. I recovered the hides and they were very smelly and starting to rot...the hair fell off in my hands. Unfortunately I didn't flesh them before I attempted to freeze them (time issue at the time). Well I held my breath and fleshed them. After fleshing, I soaked the hides in a strong mixture of ashes and water to raise the pH in an effort to swell the hides...they turn almost rubbery and shrink half their size during this process. Next I used a scrapper to remove the remaining hair and grain (layer under the hair). After that step I neutralized the hide by leaving in a creek for a day or so. Next is the wringing phase where all the water is removed from the hide so the dressing can adsorb into the hide like a moist sponge adsorbs water. For dressing I wanted to use pig brains but could not find any. I ended up using blended egg yolks and a little Castile soap. I worked the dressing into the hide and allowed to soak overnight. The next day I wringed the dressing out, hand stretched, and reapplied the dressing for another day. After I was sure that the dressing penetrated the entire thickness of the hide I wringed, and stretched and re scraped (to squeegee out any remaining free water). Next I sewed the holes, and tied to my stretching form and worked the hide until it was dry and soft (a ton of work). Lastly I sewed two hides together with a hole on the bottom and placed over a bed of coals with punkie wood to complete the smoking phase (inside and outside)...this phase helps to water proof the hide (i.e., if it gets wet it will not dry hard like rawhide). Well there are many more details...entire books on the subject...above is an overview. If you are interested in trying, feel free to shoot me a PM and I will give you my "lessons learned" in an effort to avoid you from re-inventing the wheel. Thanks to all who helped me with my questions! Good luck! Dino PS. I am in need of one med/large deer hide (green with hair)...please let me know if you have one available...two of the hides I tanned were rotting and I ended up with some large holes during the membraning phase making it impossible to make the leggings (primitive chaps) I wanted....they did work, however, for Colton’s leggings! Hides before smoking Sewing hides together prior to smoking phase Preparing punkie wood Hides with skirt attached ready for smoking Smoking Hides on end are smoked, one in middle is not
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