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Post by squash on Mar 1, 2015 8:09:35 GMT -5
Does any one know the acreage consumed by DEC over the last 20 years in the central and eastern ADKs that were once producive timber land? Except for any so called super environmentally sensitive areas, the trend has been for the last 20 years for large private timberland tracts inside and outside of the park, is to keep them private land and working forest through Conservation Easements. I'm not saying there isn't any land being added to the Forest Preserve, but for the most part large timberland holdings are staying private land an encumbered with Conservation Easements, and each property is different. All of the former Lyons Falls Pulp &Paper, and most of the Champion, JP Lewis/Boise Cascade, Finch and International Paper lands are still private lands now under Conservation easements, being managed by Molpus Timberlands, Lyme Timber, LandVest and others.
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paintedpaw
Retired NYSDEC Lake George Ranger
Posts: 688
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Post by paintedpaw on Mar 1, 2015 20:19:36 GMT -5
Don't know exact figure, but it is staggering. Far more than DEC can properly manage, and just more land being denied access by classifying much of it as wilderness. Over 6 million acres in park, better than 3 million in state's hands, far more than one million tied up as wilderness
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traps82
#3 Newhouse
Hope is always alive
Posts: 3,208
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Post by traps82 on Mar 1, 2015 22:04:38 GMT -5
Is us being paranoid about the DEC's motives a conspiracy theory or is it a reality??
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Post by papabear on Mar 2, 2015 9:53:50 GMT -5
Dear Friend,The priorities of NYSDEC conservation and habitat programs are heading towards a totally environmental preservation and non consumptive direction which does little or nothing to insure sound conservation. It seems as the number of people who hunt and trap decline (buy licenses) so does DEC's emphasis on managing wildlife and habitat.
I am convinced that activities such as hiking, bird and wildlife watching,canoeing, kayaking and other similar activities have become a higher priority, to the DEC, over hunting and trapping. A non consumptive, environmental preservation approach. As I have stated in the past DEC should be changed to DEP, Department of Environmental Preservation........or merely just Department of Environment..... because they have little or nothing to show that insures sound, critical conservation safegards and practices.
Regards
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Post by squash on Mar 2, 2015 10:34:44 GMT -5
Papa bear, I think you are correct, this correlates with my contention that the DEC has been infultrated with preservationists environmentalists. This is what is being taught in college today. The old guard at the DEC is retiering and are being replaced with anti's.
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Post by whartonrattrapper on Mar 2, 2015 10:51:30 GMT -5
Dear Friend,The priorities of NYSDEC conservation and habitat programs are heading towards a totally environmental preservation and non consumptive direction which does little or nothing to insure sound conservation. It seems as the number of people who hunt and trap decline (buy licenses) so does DEC's emphasis on managing wildlife and habitat. I am convinced that activities such as hiking, bird and wildlife watching,canoeing, kayaking and other similar activities have become a higher priority, to the DEC, over hunting and trapping. A non consumptive, environmental preservation approach. As I have stated in the past DEC should be changed to DEP, Department of Environmental Preservation........or merely just Department of Environment..... because they have little or nothing to show that insures sound, critical conservation safegards and practices. Regards I agree completely!
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Post by mikemason on Mar 4, 2015 18:31:36 GMT -5
I did some research today...in 2012,69,000 acres of Finch property became forever wild.In 2013,the state added 27,618 acres to forever wild.
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Post by squash on Mar 4, 2015 19:16:00 GMT -5
This is the only example of former paper company lands being added that I know of in the last 10 years. If there are others please list them here ?
As I've stated repeatedly here, a portion of the former Finch Paper, was added to the Forest Preserve. But 92,000 acres of the former Finch lands have stayed working forest. Along with the conservation easement on these lands was a 20 year wood fiber supply guarantee to the paper mill in Glens Falls. So logging will continue on these 92,000 acres for atleast the next 2 decades. Plus the 69,000 acres now in state fee ownership, had the crap logged out of it so it should be excellent habitat , and now it's public land .
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Post by mikemason on Mar 4, 2015 19:49:29 GMT -5
When the nature conservancy and open space institute get in the business of selling land to the state ...I get concerned..another forever wild 41,382 acres will be paid for in fiscal year 2016/2017
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Post by squash on Mar 5, 2015 8:42:14 GMT -5
When the nature conservancy and open space institute get in the business of selling land to the state ...I get concerned..another forever wild 41,382 acres will be paid for in fiscal year 2016/2017 As a trapper,You should be more than concerned, because the Nature Conservency has unlimited funds to purchase land, and then limit use of said land. But, they don't always sell the land they buy to the state, because the state has limited funds for land acquisition so it has to be something special about it. The Finch deal they purchased all 161,000 acres and sold 89000-92000 acres of it to a Timber Investment Management Org., and they bought 45,000 acres of the LF Pulp&Paper and sold 30,000 acres to another TIMO.. And the 15,000 acres they retained, the first thing they did was banned all trapping, but it is open to hunting and fishing. I think the real issue here with many is not how much land is added to the Forest Preserve, because it then becomes public land that you can hunt, trap and fish. But the regulations of motor vehicle access and lack of proper forest management, that comes with it ? But the notion that all former paper company lands are ending up in the Forest Preserve is just not true.
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Post by mikemason on Mar 5, 2015 19:25:54 GMT -5
I did not imply that it was going to all forever wild...no matter how you shake it...those tranactions amount to 215 square miles.Your case in point about access is a huge problem for all sportsmen.
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paintedpaw
Retired NYSDEC Lake George Ranger
Posts: 688
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Post by paintedpaw on Mar 5, 2015 20:00:04 GMT -5
I think the point is that more and more lands are being acquired by DEC and into the forest preserve.I do not know the percentage of paper company lands have been sent in that direction. The fact is that in the Adirondacks less and less public access is ocurring. Much of the newer land acquisitions is being classified as Wilderness. That classification is very resrictive toall but the young and physically fit. Additionally much of existing infrastructure is being closed for public use. Also fairly large tracts are being acquired and sub divided for secondhomes of the rich and posted to the public. I thank God that the Forest Preserve exists to prevent developers from destroying the land, but I curse the denial to much of the public when it comes to acess. Trappers are really taking it on the chin when it comes down to less acess.
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Post by squash on Mar 6, 2015 8:45:26 GMT -5
Yes, the access issue is where we all agree, and this is where it relates to trapping. The DEC seems to want to close ADK's to all except non paying users. Look at the recent developments on the Moose River Plains Rec area. When Gould Paper Co sold this land to the state in 1960, the agreement was that the property was supposed to always have motor vehicle access. Then a couple of years ago the DEC tried to reneg on the agreement and close all roads to motor vehicles , because of the same old reason, lack of funding. Close these roads and essentially you close the area to trapping. Luckily the Towns of Inlet and Indian Lake stepped up and took on some of the road maintenance so most of the roads are still open. However the state did gate the rd at Otter Brook and you can no longer drive to Squaw Lake.
The floatplane issue is another beef I have, why can't there be a hub lake in some of these wilderness areas giving people a point of access ? The argument that floatplane wakes destroy loon nest is BS.. I used to have my guides lic and guided many fishermen to remote Brook Trout lakes and ponds in the ADK's. On any given weekend, North Lake has dozens of motor boats, and jet skis crisscrossing the lake, yet there is always a family of loons there.
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Post by papabear on Mar 20, 2015 6:38:34 GMT -5
Dear Friends, Be sure to send in your response! Regards
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