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Post by walleyed on Feb 17, 2012 10:36:04 GMT -5
heck yes I'm getting old... in 1976 I was twelve! <lol> I'd like to hop from rat house to rat house without getting my feet wet just one more time before I die Then you need to get a permit to trap PERCH RIVER this spring. LOL walleyed
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Feb 17, 2012 10:40:04 GMT -5
heck yes I'm getting old... in 1976 I was twelve! <lol> I'd like to hop from rat house to rat house without getting my feet wet just one more time before I die Then you need to get a permit to trap PERCH RIVER this spring. LOL walleyed will it be just you & me up there? shhhh... don't tell anyone else! <lolol>
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Post by herm on Feb 17, 2012 17:14:37 GMT -5
Walleyed,Good post a lot of data there.I have to wonder though how the DEC knew exactly how many rats were trapped each year.It was not like they were tagged,and who knows where trappers shipped or sold their rats.The last regular springs season we had here,Wayne County,was the 75-76 season which lasted to mid March,but had an opening date later than it does now.The next season the coonhunting season was also shortened so as to not run into mid March.I also believe, without looking it up, that the DEC was formed in 1970.I also have to wonder what effect huricane Agnes had on the rats in our state in the 72-73 time frame.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Feb 17, 2012 17:59:11 GMT -5
sort of side topic, but I'm not thrilled with the late Nov start of beaver season here. If anything, a late Dec - late March season would make more sense, fur quality wise. All the public land beaver around me were dead or scattered singles by Dec 1st this year. How good could that fur have been?
It's not like we are over-run with beaver anywhere in my general area... numbers are way down from peaks.
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Post by herm on Feb 17, 2012 19:10:44 GMT -5
Austin,It is much better now with the season running along with the rat season around my area anyways.Before a high nimber of beaver were killed under a damage permit any time of year other than the short season we had.Also a great number were shot under the shoot,shovel and shut up system of handling things.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Feb 17, 2012 19:21:06 GMT -5
sadly, they still do the damage permit thing here in August and September when corn damage is apparent. the only real lodges undisturbed are away from highways, crops and people. They get hammered by Dec 1st, but the others too close to suburbia don't even see the first hard frost. With the price of corn these days, that will only get worse
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Post by mikeb on Feb 17, 2012 21:05:51 GMT -5
I also believe the habitat destrution combined with the lower water levels are the death to many muskrats-i think as more area is turned into ashphalt and concrete all the water just runs off quickly instead of slowly soaking in and keeping water levels more stable-gotta love progress!!!can we turn back the clock please!!!
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Post by trappermac on Feb 18, 2012 8:09:26 GMT -5
Some real interesting stuff in these posts. Austin - I was one of the regulars at the Iroquois/Tonawanda/Oak Orchard areas from 1974 - 1982 and from 74 -79 I trapped those marshes full time with a partner and we always took well over 1000 rats in that period even with some tough winters. There never seemed to be a downturn in the population due to pressure, the next season there would be as many huts as there were the year before as the season got underway. These days it is highly regulated over there, you need a permit and are given 25 tags and you can set 25 traps. There are many people who get the permits and the tags. The weekend warriors hit it on the first few weekends and then its 4-5 guys trapping it daily the remainder of the season. They get some good numbers even with the reduced traps allowed. I go through there at least once a week for work related business and just two days ago I drove around all the backroads and I can't remember the last time I saw as many huts as I do now. They are thriving there, you could walk hut to hut in some areas. Not much has changed really, the same areas I trapped back then still hold good water and good rat numbers. But keep in mind that they regularly drain down certain areas of the marsh to eliminate unwanted marsh plants to promote those that sustain waterfowl and I think this also helps the rats. A healthy ecosystem benefits all wildlife in that system.
Been trapping the western southern zone since 1968 and can never remember a 16 day rat season. I do remember the spring seasons and loved them. Its sad to think my trapping is done here in the western southern zone for the year except for beaver, which have already been picked over. I think some attention should be given here to extending the season at least until March 14th or so. But nothing seems to happen or get talked about as far as I know.
I am down in the southern tier now and I live next to a marsh that 4 years ago was loaded with huts. I was the only one trapping it (sole permission). Next year same thing, good population. I didn't trap it hard but spent a few days hitting them. This past year we had steady water levels all summer and there is not a hut to be seen. Went in there and didn't even find a run or bank den. It just went dead. No explanation for it. Nothing has changed in the system, at least to the naked eye.
I went up in an area on Cattauragus creek this year where there are usually good rat numbers as far as creeks go. Didn't find a bank den or a dropping anywhere. Same spot last year gave up quite a few rats. I put in 12 blind sets out of desperation but three days yeilded 2 mink and not a rat.
All I know is that when I first got into this game I trapped the same areas year to year and never saw a difference. Floods, drought, whatever....where there were once rats always had rats. These days unless its a very controlled area like the Iroquois swamps it seems cyclic. At least here in the western southen tier.
Farming practices (to include todays accepted fertilizers)? Urban sprawl? Something is happening. Some areas seem fine. Some areas are dead when they shouldn't be. Its not trapping pressure, that I know from experience.
Looking foward to the results of the studies beng conducted. Hopefully that will shed some light.
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catman4
If your to busy to hunt & trap then your to busy...
Posts: 745
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Post by catman4 on Feb 18, 2012 17:27:37 GMT -5
some interesting read there. my eyes need a brake. zane your doing well it will keep getting better each year!! GOOD JOB.
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Post by mikeb on Feb 18, 2012 21:36:09 GMT -5
yes that was some very good info as well from all involved-thanks
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Feb 19, 2012 21:21:30 GMT -5
Very happy with results from today's GVTA sale: Mink (green skins) Males: eight at $24.00 = $192 Females: six at $18.50 = $111 === Muskrats less than 13" (kits) seventeen count at $8.60 = $146.20 13" to 14" forty-two count at $11.75 = $493.50 14" to 15.5" sixty-nine count at 13.00 = $897.00 15.5" to 17": one hundred four count at $13.40 = $1,393.60 17"+ seventy count at $13.75 = $962.50 ---------------------------------------------------------- total three hundred two muskrats = $3,892.80 / $12.89 average (before sale costs) === Thank you to all of the 22 fur buyers present, we really appreciate your attendance, support and often-times spirited bidding to make the sale what it is. A special thank you to the volunteers from GVTA who play very important roles there for 12 - 14 hours days, presale setup to clean up. A premium thank you goes out to Bob & Bonnie Hughes for all you do. I hope the day never comes, but if Bob ever retires from the NYSTA = GVTA scene, it will take three good men to almost replace him
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Feb 22, 2012 6:11:52 GMT -5
Anyone up north have permits for Perch River... or am I going to be lonely out there all by myself next month? Seriously speaking, I'm going to spend some time there and possibly over in the Black Lake area afterwards. If anyone else is around, I'd enjoy shaking hands and saying "hi" on site
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Post by walleyed on Feb 22, 2012 6:31:12 GMT -5
I will be there.
I was scouting the open water there Monday.
Someone,
presumably a Trapper with a fall/winter permit already had all the presently open water staked and flagged.
Hot competition.
walleyed
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Feb 22, 2012 6:37:12 GMT -5
from what I see on google earth, there is a lot of water to cover. I've worked public water with that type of trapper density my whole life. I'm sure there'll be a few rats here & there left to glean
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Post by milkie62 on Feb 22, 2012 22:17:33 GMT -5
What is the Perch river area ?
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Post by walleyed on Feb 23, 2012 10:32:25 GMT -5
What is the Perch river area ? NYS DEC State WMA Wetland near Watertown, N.Y. walleyed
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Post by TI trapper on Feb 23, 2012 10:58:43 GMT -5
Ive seen some flagging already at seven bridges, fyi.
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Post by trappermac on Feb 23, 2012 11:37:20 GMT -5
It's great when guys do that, saves you a whole lot of scouting when you go in there...flag marks the spot, pull their stake and put yours in with a trap. I use blue flagging under these circumstances so that the guy can find his trapless stakes...
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Post by mikespring on Feb 23, 2012 12:35:44 GMT -5
I could see where it might piss someone off...I wouldnt pull anyones stakes, maybe the trapper is markin runs incase of ice up..would be a different story if when confronting the idividual he claimed that spot due to pre-staking...Public land...first come, first serve.
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Post by fingerlakesfur on Feb 23, 2012 12:48:00 GMT -5
I used to trap the Seneca River for beaver alot...still do to a lesser extent...anyway, one year I had a guy come and make sets within feet of mine at almost every stop I had...what can you do? Nothing..it was obvious he was following me around
If I came across another trappers active set, I would either move on or slide up or downstream. Some guys get off on trying to muscle you out...
Had the same thing happen to me land trapping one year...a certain trapper went around to all my farms & tried to aquire permission, most farmers I am established with said "no Dale traps here"...but a few figured having 2 trappers around would be better than having one. This really screwed up my canine trapping one year, due to him educating the animals....never did see that trapper again
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Post by mikespring on Feb 23, 2012 13:14:41 GMT -5
Lots of land trappers here Dale...I envy some of these guys that get land all to themselves, competition only makes one better I`ve always said.
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Post by trappermac on Feb 23, 2012 13:33:05 GMT -5
If I came across another trappers active set, I would either move on or slide up or downstream. Same here....don't want to do this if I have to compete like that. Takes away from it all, but rat prices being what they are the greed and ignorance comes out in all ways imaginable. I love rat trapping, but with every Tom/dick/Harry out there right now falling over each other for the same rat run.....kinda loses the allure of why I do this to begin with.
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Post by TI trapper on Feb 23, 2012 14:06:07 GMT -5
personally im not a rat trapper, but with these prices ill bet we see some heavy traffic on the waterways this spring.
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austinp
#3 Newhouse
the next fur season is never far from our minds :)
Posts: 3,008
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Post by austinp on Feb 23, 2012 14:19:13 GMT -5
Public water can get crowded in places during times of high prices. But there is always some room to work. Might have to work harder for less overall catch, but it's that or nothing sometimes.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2012 16:57:00 GMT -5
I had some guy set traps within 10 feet of me all year......he thought he was sneaky but he never checked them or cleaned the crap that got stuck and clogged his conibears. I am glad I have aquired some private land for next year.
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