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Post by Adirondack-Jim on May 3, 2012 6:11:34 GMT -5
Information provided by USSA.
New York Bill Would Pave Way for Dove Hunting Season
Posted on May 2, 2012
Senate Bill 6968, sponsored by Senator John A. DeFrancisco (R-Syracuse), would classify mourning doves as “migratory game birds,” allowing New York wildlife officials to set a dove hunting season.
While mourning doves are considered migratory by the federal government, they are not classified as such by the state of New York. Thus, the state’s Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) has been unable to establish a dove hunting season.
“Doves are one of the post popular game birds in the U.S and there is no reason to continue to prohibit dove hunting in New York,” said Jeremy Rine, U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance in-house counsel and associate director of state services. “For too long, the politics of the anti-hunting lobby, and not sound science, have prevented a dove season in New York. It’s time that New York sportsmen are afforded the same opportunity as sportsmen in other states. New York sportsmen must reach out to their elected officials today to support SB 6968.”
The DEC’s website states that “[t]here is no biological reason why doves could not be hunted in New York” and that dove numbers in the state have significantly increased over the past 40 years. New York is one of only nine states that prohibit dove hunting. Just last year, Iowa opened up a dove hunting season after years of fighting anti-hunting influences.
Senate Bill 6968 is currently pending before New York’s Senate Environmental Conservation Committee.
Take Action! New York sportsmen should contact their state senators and ask them to support Senate Bill 6968. Visit USSA’s Legislative Action Center for your state senator’s contact information.
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Post by Itrapny on May 3, 2012 6:14:44 GMT -5
Loved to dove hunt while I was in North Carolina.....1 box of shells= 1 dove ;D
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Post by cttrapper on May 3, 2012 8:01:41 GMT -5
Fight the antis any way you can before you end up like us over here in CT. No hunting on sunday crazy trapping restrictions ect.....
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Post by twotrappers on May 3, 2012 9:04:37 GMT -5
Anti dove hunting is bigger than anti trapping. Even if you dont want to hunt doves, it will distract the antis away from trapping. If you dont believe this; go to youtube & search for Iowa Dove hearings (10 videos).
****If you hunted doves before, tell other hunters how great it is, because the DEC feels lack of support is because NY hunters having no experience or tradition with dove hunting. ****We need to educate hunters & build interest in dove hunting.**** Anybody who is interested in writing an article or a video about the recreational aspect of dove hunting, please message us.
An education campaign to generate interest in dove hunting is only one aspect. It is useless to address antihunters. It is needed to address nuetral parties. This may include the legislature. Here is an article you can draw parts of your argument from. We also may work on a survey and/or a form letter; and even work on signatures for a petition. Voluteers please message us.
Before someone asks" who is we?" I will answer. We started as the SFA & dwindled down to a handful because nobody else participated. We do not participate in resolutions through the NYS Conservation Council, nor participate in the federation meetings.
We have had more sucess than you are aware of. We are not bragging, right now we are working with NJ - (NJ recently converted doves to gamebird status; but no season yet) we hunt NJ, and will hunt there more if they get a dove season.
Here is the article for your use, note the states which allow dove hunting are 39 or 40 Iowa & Michigan are the latest, not 35 as stated.
The United States population of doves is estimated to be 400 million birds and they are the nation’s most abundant bird. Long-term annual hunting mortality is 20 million mourning doves. The life span of a dove is considered to be only three years and only 40% live longer than 12 months. That means 380 million doves die in three years due to natural causes. Since hunting mortality is low at 20 million; doves are an under- utilized resource. Thirty five of the 48 states allow dove hunting and although the debate continues; the nations dove population does constitute a renewable resource – one that could produce a regulated harvest, and thereby provide food and recreation, without threatening the stability of the dove population. Dove hunting would generate money for the conservation of doves, as well as other species, including nongame and unstable species (vulnerable, threatened, and endangered). Dove hunting would open up many hunting opportunities; but particularly opportunities for youth, women, handicapped persons, and older hunters. Why? It is done in mild weather. There is no water, mud, hills, brush, long hikes, climbing trees or tree stands, heavy or expensive equipment, low recoil, low noise ammo is used, you can hunt with or without your dog. Traditional dove hunting is in harvested fields, however doves can be found about anywhere, and that is a big issue for many hunters. Doves are quite sporty - hard to hit, and excellent table fare. A dove season is win-win! It is not disputed that doves are not overpopulated. The aspect of wildlife management which is population control does not apply to this species. The concept of harvesting a sustained yield to provide both recreation and conservation funds certainly does, however. The number of hunters is positively related to the amount of conservation monies. Dove hunting would involve more youth, women, disabled persons, and older hunters. Every ten year old who becomes a life-long hunter makes a collectively significant financial contribution to conservation over the course of his or her hunting career. The conservation aspect of wildlife management concerns the treatment of small or declining populations. Despite that doves are the most abundant bird on this continent; even the conservation aspect of wildlife management applies to dove hunting. Since the habitat needs of doves overlap with other species; including nongame and unstable species; many species would benefit from the motivation to preserve and enhance habitat and additional conservation funding obtained from a dove season.
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Post by twotrappers on May 3, 2012 12:58:10 GMT -5
The bill is getting its "first interview"with the senate en con committee; so thats were the first round of letters/emails should go. As the bill progresses; you then contact the senate rep for your area; then as it progresses you would contact the assembly rep for your area, then finally the governors office.
As the situation evolves; the form letter may change as well, but thats unknown.
It is important to get these to the senate en con committee NOW!(individual contacts to each committee member) If the bill survives and goes up the chain, I will keep you informed. If anyone will help people determine thier reps, please step up to the plate!
Heres the form letter: (dont forget your name and address)
RE: Senate Bill 6968
Dear Senator __________________________________________________;
I am writing to ask you to support Senate Bill 6968. In order for wildlife professionals, such as DEC wildlife biologists to properly manage a species; that species must be classified correctly. Mourning Doves are not currently categorized with other species which share the attributes that ornithologists and wildlife biologists believe makes them similar. Without a status designation; the state’s wildlife agency not only forfeits federal funding, but also the flexibility to manage a species the best it can. Incorrect status is as bad as no designation. Mourning Doves, like other migratory species, have been intensely studied and monitored by the US Fish and Wildlife Service for decades. Migratory birds are co-managed by the USFWS, the individual states, and through international treaties with Canada and Mexico. The USFWS classifies the Mourning Dove as a game bird.
Sincerely,
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Post by twotrappers on May 3, 2012 15:36:24 GMT -5
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Post by Itrapny on May 4, 2012 5:30:48 GMT -5
You'll get a much better response if you DON'T write, email or fax a form letter. A personalized letter carries MUCH more weight as the anti's just send form letter's and that in the legislator's eyes really only count as one response even if there are hundred's. If you're going to support the bill, please take the extra few minutes and personalize your letter even if the content is the same.
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Post by twotrappers on May 4, 2012 9:08:16 GMT -5
You'll get a much better response if you DON'T write, email or fax a form letter. A personalized letter carries MUCH more weight as the anti's just send form letter's and that in the legislator's eyes really only count as one response even if there are hundred's. If you're going to support the bill, please take the extra few minutes and personalize your letter even if the content is the same. I agree with some caution. Just keep this in mind when you craft your own letter: On the third post I shotgunned a lot of info about the benefits of a dove season. But after reading the language in the bill I went with the flow and drafted a brief form letter focused on the stated justification of the bill. As the situation evolves, some of (other) info I gave and a lot more you all can contribute, may become relevant. (actually, it will as soon as the antis chime in). But for now, as written, sitting with the en con committee; the scope of relevance is small. It becomes an issue of opening up a new can of worms when you speed pass relevance - if the antis do that we will counter-punch at that time. By all means craft an original letter; but if not; please at least send a form letter!
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Post by Itrapny on May 4, 2012 17:22:05 GMT -5
All I was trying to get across is that I know that the anti's have already flooded the En Con Committee legislators with form letters against the proposed Bill. After years of letters dealing with trapping bills, I know that form letters don't carry the same weight as a thoughtful letter crafted with the same information.
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Post by twotrappers on May 7, 2012 8:53:18 GMT -5
Not arguing with you Wayne. You are right; however even form letters are recorded and at this stage the stated justification for the bill is like 2 lines long - there isnt too many different ways to word a relevant letter. Not everybody has time to create their own letters but will mail in a form letter.
Its important to get this bill out of committee before they dispatch it. A dove bill is always on life support and the antis will introduce a host of issues, which we will need to address with factual arguments or "talking points" later on.
When the inevitable occurs; I am going to craft both form letter rebuttals and a summary of "talking points". I will post and distibute these to the SFA member roster. This is for those who choose to use it; but it doesnt imply it is better than anything anyone else says. But if anyone wants, the form letter can be used or the talking points can be considered in an original letter. Lets just work together and get this bill out of committee and through the vote and signed into law by the governer!
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Post by twotrappers on May 8, 2012 8:55:05 GMT -5
I keep hearing the same old (literally old) comments on every single sportsmen's issue that does not regard deer hunting and the deer herd.
OK. There were a couple of failed NY dove bills in the 1980s (which I will point out was before we had the internet as a fast &cheap communication tool). And... in 2006 the DEC mailed out 5,000 surveys asking hunters if they ever thought about dove hunting.... And as a result of that survey, the DEC decided to wait and posted a web page that is still posted saying so....
Fine. So what did the pessimistic sportsmen do in 1980 and in 2006? And what are they going to do in 2012 - that is DIFFERENT? What are they going to do to help pass NY SB-6968?
Does anyone actually believe ANYTHING can get done by do nothing other then dwelling on past failures?
I dont care what Bubba says, a shovel doesnt make you a gardener and a deer rifle doesnt make you a hunter. Instead of quoting Bubba; quote Einstien: "Insanity is doing the same thing that has not worked, over and over again and expecting a different outcome."
Dont wait for "them" and stop listening to bubba. Wayne pinned this thread and I appreciate that; but we need to flood the legislature with contact and we need to become educated about doves, dove hunting, and how it relates to conservation funding and local economies and recruitment of new hunters. We need to EXCITE other sportsmen about dove hunting - generate interest in going dove hunting!
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Post by uncledoug on May 9, 2012 17:05:44 GMT -5
Sent my Senator a note asking for his support on this Bill, kept it short, only a couple a lines. 5 minutes at most.
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Post by twotrappers on May 10, 2012 10:49:09 GMT -5
Just keep things relevant and not inflammatory to the anti-hunting lobby. We are NOT addressing the anti-hunters. We ARE addressing: 1) Hunters who are not familiar with dove hunting, to generate their interest in it. 2) NY and NJ Legislature to educate them about: a) Effect of dove hunting on the local economies of rural communities. b) Effect of dove hunting on conservation funds derived from the excise tax on hunting equipment. c) The recreational aspect of dove hunting, including how it is different from other forms of hunting. Dove Hunting Advocates/Lobbyists Wanted! Would you help NY and NJ hunters lobby for a dove hunting season? Please review the following sites and get back to me. You can also sign up to receive e- mail update info from #1 and #2 below. 1) Send email asking to subscribe to: votingsporthunters@gmail.com 2) httpp://www.ussportsmen.org/legislative-action/new-york-bill-would-pave-the-way-for-dove-hunting-season/ 3) Take a look at this Anti - Hunting You Tube Channel which shows the misery they gave the state of Iowa for 10 years in trying to legalize dove hunting: retiren11w 4) Go to these 3 message boards and look under the political/legislative forums for dove hunting. This will provide insight into what is going on and the attitudes of the hunters. huntingny.comnytrappers.proboards.comwww.newjerseyhunters.comWe need videos; speakers, writers, phone callers, bloggers.
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Post by twotrappers on May 10, 2012 15:01:32 GMT -5
Partners #1 Iowa’s ten year battle for a dove season was won with the help of Iowa Chapter of Safari Club International; Pheasants Forever, National Wild Turkey Federation, Iowa Trappers Association, and the Iowa Bow hunters Association. We need to compel our state’s equivalents to help us pass NY SB- 6968, the “dove bill”; just like their sister organizations did in Iowa. We will produce a series of contact sheets for you to contact these organizations and ask them to please get on the bus! The first organization this notice will address is the Safari Club International. The Safari Club as of today, 3pm; has no information posted about SB-6968. We need to contact the Safari Club and tell them we ARE interested in a dove season to give priority to senate bill -6968! Call Nikki Lucas at the Washington DC office for hunting advocacy and science based conservation: (800) 711-8315. Then Email the New York Chapter reps: Larry Stiener: lstiener@stny.rr.com William J. Scheg, Jr.: gvt@frontier.net Mark Zucco: mark.a.zucco@citi.com Tristate Rep: Michael S. Clifford: bwanamikenyc@yahoo.com Mark Mann: fmdm@eathlink.net
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Post by twotrappers on May 11, 2012 4:52:27 GMT -5
Form Letter to Advocates/Partners TO: Safari Club International, NY Bow-Hunters, NY Trappers Association, National Wild Turkey Federation, Pheasants Forever, Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation Cc. US Sportsmen’s Alliance C/O Jeremy Rymes Dear Sportsmen’s Advocate; NY currently has legislation pending in the senate environmental conservation committee which would increase federal conservation funds to our state. It also would give the DEC authority to eventually set a dove hunting season. The NY “dove bill” is SB-6968. The state of Iowa recently won a ten-year long battle for a dove season. Videos of some of the last eleven Iowa dove hearings are available on YouTube on the channel retiren11w. Iowa wing-shooters had help this time. The Iowa Bow Hunters Assoc., Iowa Trappers Assoc., Iowa Chapter of Safari Club International, National Wild Turkey Federation, and Pheasants Forever were facilitative in getting a dove season in Iowa. I am writing on behalf of all sportsmen to ask your member roster or lobbyist to contact the NY legislature in support of SB-6968.
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Post by twotrappers on May 11, 2012 9:17:02 GMT -5
Let’s see how long this list can get…. Fill in the blank: I am ________________and I want to hunt doves! I am a paraplegic and I want to hunt doves! I am a senior citizen and I want to hunt doves! I am a person with arthritis and I want to hunt doves! Back problems Asthma Limited resources or Fixed income A parent A guardian A child A grandparent A grandchild An uncle An Aunt A nephew A niece A husband A wife A boyfriend A girlfriend A novice A person who never hunted but adopted a retriever breed from a shelter A dog rescue volunteer with a bunch of bored dogs A person whose doctor prescribed light exercise A person with a busy schedule A person who cannot handle heavy recoil & loud report A hunter with an ageing retriever who just can’t do the ducks anymore
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Post by twotrappers on May 13, 2012 19:07:55 GMT -5
The senate Environmental Conservation committee has a meeting in two days on May 15th. Tues. 9am-10am room 901 LOB. However SB-6968 is not even on the agenda, Get those letters in!
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Post by twotrappers on May 15, 2012 7:38:53 GMT -5
Here's the video Mike Kirby did for me. Please Distribute this everywhere. Also get those letters mailed, the antis probably are flooding the legislature with letters, faxes, e-mails, and phone calls! vimeo.com/42166019
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Post by twotrappers on May 16, 2012 9:54:32 GMT -5
The attorney for the US Sportsmen’s Alliance spent considerable time on the phone with me answering some questions. The USSA has the best person there is in place as their attorney and I urge hunters to purchase individual memberships and urge their clubs to invest in a club membership. I relayed the notion that state wildlife agencies, for example NJ Fish, game and wildlife and NY DEC; are too broke to fight anti-hunting lawsuits in court and that is a reason for NEW JERSEY’S hesitation to pursue a dove season while concurrently defending the black bear season. Being well aware that going to court is deep inside the territory of any natural resource agency; I did not find this credible. Frustrated that what seemed like false rumors where permeating across state lines; I contacted the attorney for the USSA. I was informed the following: Most states can handle the majority of court cases internally, that is they have an attorney on staff within the agency, often within the wildlife department. Furthermore; since this is considered to be a lawsuit against a state, the Attorney General’s Office of the state is mandated to defend the department. States occasionally hire outside law firms for complicated issues and/or when they are aware of a lawyer with experience in the exact issue. That probably is more likely with issues such as hydrofracking than the classification of Mourning Doves. The bottom line is most wildlife departments have at least one attorney on staff, as a salaried state employee and is also represented by attorneys from its Attorney General’s Office. On the federal level; the antis have, in some instances, recouped their own legal fees at the expense of tax payers in litigation against the US Fish and Wildlife Service. This is maneuvered in two ways: 1) If the court finds that the USFWS did what pretty much amounts to breaking its own laws; for example making an exception to the Endangered Species Act of Congress; the antis are entitled to the government repaying their legal fees. 2) The Equal Access to Justice Act, which was designed to remove barriers to allow veterans and poor persons from suing the federal government; has some way been allowed to apply to wealthy anti-hunting lobby organizations pursuing opinion-based agendas not protected by number 1 above. There is discussion about reforming this act to its original intent of helping veterans and indigents with legitimate actions against the federal government obtain justice. Sportsmen and all Americans should follow and support this reform. The next logical question is: Why are the anti-hunting plaintiff’s that bring bogus law suits which are defeated not held responsible for paying back the defendant’s legal expenses? The answer is that the complaint has to be entirely meritless and that seldom occurs because the antis are not that stupid. I interjected that is why hunters should not contest anything we could live with that even resembles being legitimate, for example a lead shot ban. We then discussed the tactics used by the antis. It was explained that during the legislative phase the antis will use a propaganda campaign to either persuade politicians or threaten to vote them out of office. The content of their letters can be as unsophisticated as mentioning the “dove of peace” and that hunters do not eat doves. If sportsmen win this “public opinion battle”, the antis sometimes file a lawsuit. The antis basically use three legal approaches: 1) If state law requires an environmental impact statement; the antis will sue if one was not done. Even if one was completed, the antis may try to invalidate it. 2) There are very specific legal guidelines a state must follow when a law is created, changed, or repealed. The antis will make sure that the legal procedure was followed perfectly. Typically antis complain that there was not sufficient notice to public and/or the public comment period was faulty in some way or another. 3) Dispute the biological data, sometimes bringing their own biologist as an expert witness. We then discussed the failed dove bills of the 1980s. It is believed that the urban politicians feared retaliation from their constituents. I questioned the reality that hunters are the world’s biggest minority; if this was entirely a numbers game, we would have lost all a long time ago. It was pointed out that it is not the total population of voters against hunters; but rather the number of passionate supporters (hunters) vs. the number of passionate opponents (anti-hunters). I was advised that hunters do write a lot of letters and politicians, even urban ones, know that hunters are active voters. The bottom line is, the attorney for the USSA is convinced that the letters to politicians from hunters, without a doubt influence the success or failure of legislation. His belief the reason the 1980 NY Dove Bills failed was because NY hunters “are not connected” to doves and did not write to members of the legislature. Fast Forward to 2012: NY has a new “dove bill”. The bill is “gathering dust” in committee, and it is not on the agenda as far as the scheduled meetings are posted online. If the committee does not put s6968 on its agenda by November, the bill will be dropped, to the delight of the antis. The lawyer for the USSA told me that political pressure in the form of letters to the chairman and members of the senate environmental conservation committee is what is required to get it on the agenda. Otherwise the bill will expire (that’s what the antis want) and it will not move forward for the legislature to consider. Politicians are in their comfort zone when the opposition floods them with letters and there is few letters of supports. All they have to do is do nothing, the bill expires and they didn’t have to do their job and make (another) divisive decision. So get those letters, e-mails, or faxes flowing. Be prepared to keep doing it if the committee moves this bill along; which means we need to then contact other members of the legislature, especially those in your own voting district. I also ask everyone to thank the USSA and become an individual member of the USSA and ask their club to become an organization member.
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Post by trappermac on May 16, 2012 10:53:14 GMT -5
His belief the reason the 1980 NY Dove Bills failed was because NY hunters “are not connected” to doves and did not write to members of the legislature. Well that video, showing a parking lot full of hunters vehicles and then standing in fields elbow to elbow will keep me disconnected. But that's just me.
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valleytrapper
US Army Retired-Vietnam Veteran Herkimer County NYSTA Represenative
Posts: 141
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Post by valleytrapper on May 16, 2012 17:27:44 GMT -5
Read the NYSDEC topic "Why we don't have a Dove Season in NYS" @ www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/59626.htmlI have to agree with trappermac. if there was that many vehicles and hunters shooting all over our rural area here in Central NY you would have alot more posted property and no permission granted for any reason. Farmers would probably be more willing to let you shoot the nuisance crows and starlings than shooting doves that do far less damage. Most dove problems are taken care of the same time as the shooting of the rock pidgeons. As far as eating a dove, what's the matter with taking the pidgeons which aren't regulated and cooking them up? If dove season was to run the same time as other seasons, ie: Bow, Muzzleloader, Deer, and/or Turkey season how many hunters would want all that additional shooting going on, and most importantly farmer John and Joan Q Public? Last time I checked agriculture was still NYS largest industry to include forestry. Landowners have the final say who goes on their property, hunters, trappers and fishermen don't, we should always keep that in mind. Just my thoughts. Valleytrapper
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Post by twotrappers on May 17, 2012 7:15:11 GMT -5
Read the NYSDEC topic "Why we don't have a Dove Season in NYS" @ www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/59626.htmlI have to agree with trappermac. if there was that many vehicles and hunters shooting all over our rural area here in Central NY you would have alot more posted property and no permission granted for any reason. Farmers would probably be more willing to let you shoot the nuisance crows and starlings than shooting doves that do far less damage. Most dove problems are taken care of the same time as the shooting of the rock pidgeons. As far as eating a dove, what's the matter with taking the pidgeons which aren't regulated and cooking them up? If dove season was to run the same time as other seasons, ie: Bow, Muzzleloader, Deer, and/or Turkey season how many hunters would want all that additional shooting going on, and most importantly farmer John and Joan Q Public? Last time I checked agriculture was still NYS largest industry to include forestry. Landowners have the final say who goes on their property, hunters, trappers and fishermen don't, we should always keep that in mind. Just my thoughts. Valleytrapper This link to an active page on the DEC website summarizes a survey conducted in 2006. This survey is not relevant to currently pending legislation. This survey was conducted because a couple of NY Dove Bills failed in the 1980s and the state was prospecting for another dove bill. The message from this cited web page is that after summarizing the survey data, the DEC decided another dove bill was on hold until more political support was gained. That political support must have been developed; because five years after this survey a new bill was introduced and is currently pending. Three persons cited this DEC website page which the DEC needs to update and put it into the perspective that reflects the present. There are passionate supporters of dove hunting and dove conservation and we are trying to generate interest in doves among other sportsmen. You are entitled to your opinion, but so are we. Our promotional video was filmed on public hunting land which is managed to hold doves. Doves are the most hunted game bird in the USA and public hunting areas managed for doves do attract hunters especially at the peak of their migration. If you read the justification of the bill, it states that passage would increase conservation funding to the state. That would not only benefit wing-shooters but other sportsmen and many species of wildlife, including nongame and threatened species. Farmers would also benefit with financial incentives under the farm bill and other programs to implement conservation practices. Farmers can also lease good dove fields to hunters. Dove hunters are not going to infiltrate NY; but the handful that visit localities spend money there on motels, meals, gasoline, car washes, ammunition, and whatever else means a lot to those small bussinesses and their part-time employees.
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Post by twotrappers on May 19, 2012 17:11:18 GMT -5
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traps82
#3 Newhouse
Hope is always alive
Posts: 3,208
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Post by traps82 on May 19, 2012 19:18:55 GMT -5
Did it!!
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Post by twotrappers on May 22, 2012 3:23:21 GMT -5
The Humane Society started a letter writing campaign against s-6968. Follow it on our facebook, but heres our response:
The Humane Society says they are songbirds, but the US Fish and Wildlife Service says they are migratory gamebirds. Doves help farmers by allowing them to apply for conservation grants to reestablish bird-seed-bearing native plant communiti...es. The subsequent decrease in herbicide & pesticide use far outwieghs the impact of lead shot. This advocacy group will not contest a lead shot ban however. Species are not hunted only because they are overpopulated and what constitutes "a good reason to .... is an emotion-based opinion the humane society wants everyone to adopt. There will be some unrecovered birds, but they will be recycled as food for predators and scavengers. Since dogs are a great aid in recovering shot game; demand for retrievers such as labradors, goldens, and chesapeakes will help empty out the shelters, municipal dog pounds, and resque kennels.
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