|
Post by mole on Feb 28, 2007 10:57:14 GMT -5
My thanks goes out to the people of our association that are looking out for our best interests. Some questions have to be asked if for no other reason than to put some rumors to rest. Its too bad that the irresponsible actions of a few have brought this on. We will all pay for it. Some more than others. Ed
|
|
|
Post by fisherman on Feb 28, 2007 19:50:27 GMT -5
Well said Johnny!Thank God for men like you, who care. As for why the 160's were included by DEC they openly told us they did not want to go back in the future and have to do another reg to include them. A 160 is very capable of killing a beagle size dog; particulary some of those brands from Canada.
|
|
|
Post by deepsleep on Feb 28, 2007 20:16:40 GMT -5
I still feel that this is the start of the end. To whom ever is "watching out" for us in those organizations, thanks for the thought. Now its conibears next some one will be pissed cause their dog got pinched in a foothold and make a big issue out of it then what? This will not turn out good if they change it at all. It justs gives the antis an angle to persue. Yes we are a small percentage compared to pet owners, But they need to share some of the respondsiblity. If we as trappers tresspass we get a ticket, if they tresspass we get the blame for accidents. How about the encon officers accutally enforce the laws we all ready have. Here in region 3 we had a dog get killed in a conibear set for beaver, under a dive pole , half in the water, 3 ft from shore. The people were tresspassing and the trapper had written permission. Ya know what happened? The town passed a no trapping law within the town, Which is illegeal. and our "FREINDS" in the DEC did NOTHING!!!!!!!!!! I asked an ENCON officer if they would enfore the law and they said "well it is a law in the town, I guess you would have to let the judge decide." Or how about when I caught some one red handed with traps they stole from me, and they would not arrest him because the leutient said "he would have to kick, hit, or spit on me before they would press charges" that was after he admitted to harassing me for 2 days before that. So do you really think they give a d@mn about what we want for a conibear reg.? Come on. You guys are fighting a losing battle! Not that I don't personally thank you for it. But how about some offense to get something back before they take all we have.
|
|
|
Post by otter04 on Feb 28, 2007 23:34:38 GMT -5
hey john, let me try and answer some of your questions. the number one reason you only have 2000 members out of 10000 is number 1, when was the last time there was a statwide membership drive?, when was the last time the nysta came to the trappers of this state and showed something positive they did. you keep saying how your fighting for our rights to trap but why is it we keep losing on every front. there is no offense, only defense. all you offer is how the nysta voted to go with the 160 and 220 proposed regs, or how the nysta offered to rewrite them. doesnt sound like your saving anything to me. its all smoke and mirrors. dont you think trappers across the state would readily join if there was some fight left in the nysta. and if there is 2000 members at 20.00 a pop thats a 100,000 that the association takes in a yr plus sales, and auctions and donations. why isnt any of this money being used to start litigations or a discrimination suit against the state. i personanly feel like im being discriminated against.ok so we lose 220's on land because of the pets. so tell me why are they allowing the 160's to go. there hasnt been a altercation with that trap anywhere in the state ever. why ? because most dogs cant get there heads in it. and dont say the beaglers, i belong to the oldest and one of the biggest beagle clubs in the state and alot of beaglers dont run in the wild because of the coyotes.so dont use them as a excuse. i do apologize for being abrupt but felt i had to say something. absolutely nothing has been done for the trappers of this state. just give and give and give.im sure your on these committees and the meetings with dec but what is really being done? would be nice to see something done that puts the pet owner on trial or dec itself. i pay 20.00 a year to watch my trapping rights and tools of the trade slowly dwindle away. and yes im venting. i honestly feel this way and i know im not alone. thank you
|
|
|
Post by skinner69 on Mar 1, 2007 7:16:09 GMT -5
hey john, let me try and answer some of your questions. the number one reason you only have 2000 members out of 10000 is number 1, when was the last time there was a statwide membership drive?, when was the last time the nysta came to the trappers of this state and showed something positive they did. you keep saying how your fighting for our rights to trap but why is it we keep losing on every front. there is no offense, only defense. all you offer is how the nysta voted to go with the 160 and 220 proposed regs, or how the nysta offered to rewrite them. doesnt sound like your saving anything to me. its all smoke and mirrors. dont you think trappers across the state would readily join if there was some fight left in the nysta. and if there is 2000 members at 20.00 a pop thats a 100,000 that the association takes in a yr plus sales, and auctions and donations. why isnt any of this money being used to start litigations or a discrimination suit against the state. i personanly feel like im being discriminated against.ok so we lose 220's on land because of the pets. so tell me why are they allowing the 160's to go. there hasnt been a altercation with that trap anywhere in the state ever. why ? because most dogs cant get there heads in it. and dont say the beaglers, i belong to the oldest and one of the biggest beagle clubs in the state and alot of beaglers dont run in the wild because of the coyotes.so dont use them as a excuse. i do apologize for being abrupt but felt i had to say something. absolutely nothing has been done for the trappers of this state. just give and give and give.im sure your on these committees and the meetings with dec but what is really being done? would be nice to see something done that puts the pet owner on trial or dec itself. i pay 20.00 a year to watch my trapping rights and tools of the trade slowly dwindle away. and yes im venting. i honestly feel this way and i know im not alone. thank you Do you really think a statewide member drive is going to increase our numbers in the nysta by that much?I don't think so.even if every trapper in this state was given a free membership for a year less then a 1/4 of them would probably renew on their own.I'm going to generate some heat for myself on this one but i'm a big boy and don't really much care.Why is because they are LAZY-let the other guy fight the battle and i'll save my money and reap the benefits of the others efforts is the general mindset.Most of the guys thru my shop talk about once trapping and always ask about the fur prices because they know i always trap regardless of the price.When asked why they quit trapping the answer is always the same-no money in it anymore.When asked if they ever belonged to the nysta-even back in the fur boom years-no,i never belonged to that i only trapped for the money.Now if you take the 10,000 guys that trapped this year and stopped trapping forever,i think only 2000 of them would really care and the rest would just find something else to do.Sad to say but it's true and you won't change my mind on that as thats the facts i get from talking trapping every day with my customers.2000 members at $20.00 a head is $40,000.00 not $100,000.00 as was stated previously.The nysta does what it can with what it's got.If you want to see more action the other 8000 guys gotta get off their lazy butts and kick in if they want a say in anything.It's always the same small core of people chipping in and fighting their guts out.Don't you think that might get old after a while?We wouldn't be losing on every front if we had 10,000 members.Who do you think has a bigger voice 2000 or 10,000?Do you think the other 8000 guys would join nysta if they won the 220 back by some miracle-NO not likely,they'd keep doing what they always do-keep trapping and nothing more.When the next issue came up they'd sit back and gripe about nysta and how they never do anything even though they didn't belong to it.For all the trappers who don't belong to nysta it's time to put up or shut up-you don't support your trapping organization you don't get a say or a right to say anything because you were too lazy to try and help yourself.Have i ranted enuf-not even close but it wouldn't help even if i kept going.JOIN NYSTA today and voice your opinion,if not,go shop with the ladies because thats all you'll be doing in the future when trapping is ended.
|
|
|
Post by fisherman on Mar 1, 2007 7:36:20 GMT -5
Hey Otter, let me respond to some of your comments. First, let me tell you that percentage of trappers that are members of NYSTA versus the amount of licensed trappers in this state has been the same long before this issue arose. It holds true with other organizations, such as the NTA, as well. Unfortunately there is a large percentage that do nothing but take, contribute nothing, and complain about everything.All they do is take. They come to the fur sales, hang around until their fur is sold and are gone! They might come to the convention, but they only come to buy their supplies, and again they are gone. They contribute nothing, let the other guy do it. Have you any idea what it takes to run a convention or a fur sale? Then all they do is is second guess with only half the facts! My question is if they have all of the answers why they don't come forward and volunteer? I can tell you this; if it were not for the New York State Trappers Association, the JTI Committee, and our lobbyist Dave Miller you would not have the trapping you enjoy today. The JTI Committee was formed 19 years ago when the issue was a threat by DEC to mandate padded traps only on land. That didn't happen and a lot of water has gone under the bridge since, but the fact remains that we still have trapping in NEW York. You can criticize the leadership all you want, but I invite you to look at New Jersey, or Massachussets, or Arizona, or Colorado or a lot of additional places that have lost their rights.Somebody in New York had do be doing something right. In fact it was a team effort. Is NYSTA perfect? Far from it, we have made many mistakes and probably will in the future, but fortunately we do have those dedicated people that spend countless hours and effort fighting to protect yours and mine rights. I for one think that 20 bucks is a cheap investment in my future; money very well spent!
|
|
|
Post by Itrapny on Mar 1, 2007 7:47:26 GMT -5
The next NYSTA Board of Directors meeting is March 24th at the Herkimer County Fairgrounds in Frankfort, NY starting at 9AM. If you would like to see how "your" money is being spent and "what" is being done to save trapping why don't you stop on in! The door is always open and you are free to ask questions and give inputs. Just remember, there is only one person being paid in the whole Organization and that is Dave Miller who works more than 40 hours a week in Albany for EVERY trapper in NY, whether they are a member of NYSTA or not. I'm not going to get into what has and hasn't been done in the past for the trappers of the state because you can't change the past but we have a chance to influence the future. It certainly would be a lot easier if we had more members or even if the members we had were all on the same page and active!
|
|
|
Post by redknot on Mar 1, 2007 10:33:22 GMT -5
Great conversation going on here.
I think we all know that in whatever organization we belong to. We’ll be working for a group of people that either doesn’t know we are doing it, doesn’t care, or (add any excuse here). We still have to do what needs to be done. Generally, some that didn’t know catch on, and often will come on board. Most of us don’t belong to just one organization either, not because we are bored, but because we understand the importance of the networking process.
I read in this post where someone is suggesting that the NYSTA is always on the defensive, and trappers don’t see any offense. I can’t disagree with that statement because it’s true. We are on the defense, nearly all of the time.
Though some of the positives seem pretty small, sometimes it’s just the principle of gaining something. A couple of years ago we put through a bill to give trappers the option of using their Document number from their license on trap tags rather than name and address. This was to keep antis’ and others from harassing trappers. Why should some whacko be allowed to find out where you live? Perhaps it’s not a huge deal for a lot of people, but if it helped a few it would be worth it.
It is not easy getting bills through our State Legislature, and there is just no way Dave Miller should have to it all by himself. Besides, he truly is fighting off the anti bills much of his time. But still he gave a lot of help to these bills, and I also know he appreciated the help in getting sponsors and moving things through committees. Those bills never became law because the Governor vetoed them. That sucked, but Dave hasn’t given up on the idea.
I have listed two bills on this site that are pro trapping. Will they help a lot of trappers in New York? No, probably not many, but if it helps a few it’s worth it. Again, it’s the principle. A non sportsman user group passed a law that made the use of a trapping tool (snowmobile) so expensive that many simply can’t afford to use them. Registrations went from $25 in 2003 to $100 in 06. That’s a huge jump for trappers. Before the snowmobile’s on here jump all over me, I know you can join a “NYSSA Club” for $25 and then you only have to pay $45 to register your sled, but should a trapper join a snowmobile club to pay for trails the trapper doesn’t use? Wouldn't we rather see that same trapper join the NYSTA for $20 and maybe a local trapper’s organization with the other $5, or buy traps?
Again, I recognize that this bill won’t help a lot of trappers, but it has the potential to help some trappers. And like other trappers on here, I get tired of loosing, loosing, loosing, and here is a chance to get something back. This bill will help, by far more ice fishermen than trappers, but that’s fine because we need friends to help pass this and other bills we need. Don’t think that sportsmen don’t know where this bill came from. They know came from trappers, that’s all part of networking.
|
|
|
Post by otter04 on Mar 1, 2007 11:26:06 GMT -5
i stand corrected skinner. i didnt have my glasses on. it was 40000 not 100000. and yes i agree with what your saying. alot of trappers trap for the money. no money no trapping. i personnaly got 5 buddys to join last yr at herkimer and they moaned but they did because they know nysta needs the support. so yes im with you on membership, but 2000 members is a formidable force, so why not a little offense once in awhile instead of defense. ? and i agree were headed for the mall with our ol lady's in the future. thanks
|
|
|
Post by redknot on Mar 1, 2007 11:46:13 GMT -5
BTW -- Nice post Skinner...It's nice to see others get fired up!!
|
|
|
Post by charlielambjr on Mar 1, 2007 15:08:16 GMT -5
OTTER wrote:so yes im with you on membership, but 2000 members is a formidable force, so why not a little offense once in awhile instead of defense. ?" 2000 against how many peopel in nyc i wouldnt call that formitable
|
|
|
Post by skinner69 on Mar 1, 2007 16:20:50 GMT -5
BTW -- Nice post Skinner...It's nice to see others get fired up!! yes,i tend to get "excited" when things i love are threatened-and trapping in this state is threatened.It just bites me in a bad spot when i hear all the whining about what nysta should do-if all of us and i do mean all trappers in this state,joined together and stuck together things would happen for the good and we might actually be able to mount an offense.Running a business 13 hours a day 7 days a week limits my time to attend meetings of the nysta.Do i vote yes,do i contact local legislators yes,do i donate monetarily-big yes.I do what i can when i can and voice my opinion on trapping to whomever will listen.All this infighting amongst ourselves over what is not being done just burns me up.
|
|
|
Post by skinner69 on Mar 1, 2007 16:48:24 GMT -5
Here's what i WILL do to increase NYSTA membership.I will be at the may and september conventions.At the september convention i WILL donate $1000.00 to the NYSTA to be given as memberships to 50 NEW members.They have to be NEW-never been a member of NYSTA before members.I'm sure there will be at least 50 trappers at the convention that were never before members. If anyone on this site is a nysta member officer please contact me at 518-587-1721 between 5a.m.-6p.m. to discuss the details.Maybe if we can get a member drive or donation for new members going we can gain the strength we need to go on the offense.
|
|
|
Post by deepsleep on Mar 1, 2007 17:06:39 GMT -5
IF, IF, IF, The fact is some of you are right we only have 2000 members and may never get another. We all know they are some lazy non-members YADA YADA YADA but one thing is for sure if we keep losing tools 2000 will become 1500 then 1000 and so on. I think in order to get members we need to get something to keep the members we have . then we can worry about getting more. Those that are not members probaly never will be so we need to stop worring about the other 8000 and focus on other issues.
|
|
|
Post by skinner69 on Mar 1, 2007 17:14:04 GMT -5
IF, IF, IF, The fact is some of you are right we only have 2000 members and may never get another. We all know they are some lazy non-members YADA YADA YADA but one thing is for sure if we keep losing tools 2000 will become 1500 then 1000 and so on. I think in order to get members we need to get something to keep the members we have . then we can worry about getting more. Those that are not members probaly never will be so we need to stop worring about the other 8000 and focus on other issues. you aren't getting jack if you don't have the numbers to make people listen-plain and simple.
|
|
|
Post by herm on Mar 3, 2007 14:18:15 GMT -5
Dont have an answer on the low percentage of trappers that are members,but we were giving free memberships to all first year trappers that took the trapper training course and only 10% were renewing.I would say for sure that there is something wrong,anyone have ideas?
|
|
|
Post by otter04 on Mar 3, 2007 18:44:17 GMT -5
I just signed a petition over on iceshanty.com theres almost 5500 signatures in opposition to grannis heading up dec and still building. my question is this, Why can we have a petition signed and delivered to the DEC letting them know were in opposition to the proposed trapping reg changes. im sure alot of the sportsman around this state would help and vote for us. it might not work but it would send a message theres alot of unhappy sportsman out here.alot of politics even behind DEC in this state. would show unity with the trappers of this state. all worth an effort. oh by the way Mr lamb,in response to your email. 2000 members doesnt sound like alot but if every trapper was married thats 4000 votes and if half had a kid of age thats another 1000 and if every trapper and his wife had one friend thats another 4000 votes. doesnt take long to generate a voter base and thats what sways politicians. just think 9000 votes in a blink of an eye. so please dont say 2000 trappers isnt a formidable group. start a petition in opposition to proposed changes and see how many sign the thing.
|
|
|
Post by Itrapny on Mar 3, 2007 18:53:19 GMT -5
A petition is a good idea if the DEC would respect it. We tried the petition route with the 330 trigger regulation and they basically ignored it. If someone wanted to start it up I'm sure many would sign it, I know I would.
|
|
|
Post by herm on Mar 3, 2007 20:05:09 GMT -5
I cant see where the Grannis pitition is going to do any good unless they mail it to every state senator and sort out the address of everyone who signs it.In fact if people are under the impression that they have done enough by signing these pititions they are wrong and if that is the case they could end up hurting us.You must contact your state senator. When it comes to voting in the elections keep in mind that one major political party has come out in oposition to the Grannis nomonation and that is the NYS Conservitive Party.
|
|
|
Post by fisherman on Mar 5, 2007 8:12:32 GMT -5
The National Rifle Association has contacted it's New York members with the name of their Senator urging that they contact them in opposition to the Grannis nomination. It is the responsibility of every New York Trapper to know or find out who these representatives are; and to either phone or E-Mail them opposing the Grannis nomination. It is not hard to get this info. Just do a Google search and look up NYS Legislature to find your representative. Grannis has stated that he is not anti hunting or anti trapping. Buy that and I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you! This man wants to put me out of buisness! Three cheers for the New York State Rifle and Pistol Association and the NRA for taking a stand of opposition. The man is unfit to lead DEC and we should be very vocal about it.
|
|
|
Post by chicken on Mar 5, 2007 14:17:53 GMT -5
AMEN!!! fisherman
|
|
|
Post by hunterchub on Mar 5, 2007 17:46:29 GMT -5
Skinner69, I commend your monetary efforts. I hope to soon be living in NY and hope someday I can shake your hand. I hope an officer has contacted you. Scott
|
|